Where does scripture say God wants us to be sick?

[lucille]

is healing physical or spritual...???

another question would be (regarding the 'claiming the healing') that is it in His will to heal you physically?

Is it impeding his glory through you by having a broken leg or not???

 

[Erik3]

Rockrz,

Do you ever get sick?

When/If you do what do you or will you do to stop the sickness from continuing?

 

[seebs]

No problem...go ahead and get sick along with those that have no Covenant with God.

Er. Sure. I'll even eat with them.

... But you do realize that that's about spiritual sickness, no?

It's not my problem.

It probably will be one day.

I've shared with you fellas what God has to say

No, you haven't. You've shared what you have to say. See, the difference is, your messages are plain text on a computer screen, and God's messages are a still small voice in the wilderness.

, but you seem to want to believe what you feel and what you see above what God says, that will change what you feel and what you see if you only knew it!

If someone says "God says X", and I look, and X does not seem to be true, I am inclined to pray on the matter, but if I do not feel God leading me to accept X, then I assume the person was wrong.

No problem. Wanna buy some insurance?

Not from you, anyway.

 

[Maccie]

Come on rock - have you ever been sick?? What happened? Have you ever broken a leg or an arm? Did you walk/write/drive straight away?

Have you got children? What if one gets chicken pox? Do the spots vanish straight away? Whose faith/claiming healing cured them? If they stay, is it because your child does not have enough faith??

And when you've been up all night trying to comfort a feverish, itchy child, then I'd just love to hear from you. Or maybe you pull the bedclothes over your head and say "she hasn't claimed the healing - its not real"

Grow up, rock.

 

[Strong in Him]

Fact is, Rock, Christians get sick. This happened even in the New Testament - Paul set off to visit one of the churches leaving behind a fellow worker who was sick!! (2 Timothy 3v20) Why didn't he pray for his healing, or tell him to recite lots of scriptures to prevent him from getting sick in the first place? Why did Paul tell Timothy not to drink only water, but also wine because of his frequent illnesses? (1 Timothy 5v23) Why didn't he just advise him to meditate on all the appropriate verses in the OT? He tells the Philippians that Epaphroditus was so ill that he almost died! (ch2v27) The Lord spared him, but wouldn't it have been more convenient for him just to have repeated some psalms and saved everyone a lot of trouble. Paul himself probably became ill at some point. His thorn in the flesh may well have been a physical ailment, and when you think about all the companions he had had and all the converts he made, who did he choose to take on many of his journeys? Luke - his physician. Wasn't that a bit unspiritual for an evangelist to travel with his personal doctor?

I notice also you've never answered any of the points about people who have remained disabled but been used to preach the Gospel anyway - especially to those with similar disabilities? The whole point of this is not being "spiritual" enough to avoid sickness/disability in the first place, but allowing God to use and work through it when, or if, it does happen.

 

[seebs]

There is some kind of bug in the reputation system, it won't let me rep that post by Strong in Him.

 

[Rockrz]

If someone says "God says X", and I look, and X does not seem to be true, I am inclined to pray on the matter, but if I do not feel God leading me to accept X, then I assume the person was wrong..

This, sir is why you will always have a problem receiving from God! You said "and I look, and X does not seem to be true"...this is not accepting God's Word by faith, and accepting it as being able to change what you see in this natural realm which is temporal and subject to change. You are yet carnal because you choose to base your faith purely off of what you see, and not from what God said by faith.

Let me ask you a question...do you believe your name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life??? [I have to assume here that you are saying yes] If you do, can you prove it? How would you know? Have you ever seen the Lamb's Book of Life so you could verify that your name is written therein???

My point is here, is that you had to receive your salvation by faith which causes your name to be written in the Lamb's Book of Life. But according to the physical senses, there's no physical evidence to go on....yet you believe your saved. The average man on the street would not believe that you are saved because you can't show him anything that will prove this to his physical eyes.

Romans 4:17 - As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations, before Him whom he believed, even God, who quickens (makes alive) the dead, and calls those things which be not as though they were.

God calls things that be not, as though they were...which is what causes things to change. He never said to call those things that are as though they are not...that would be denying that sickness exists, which is not true. He calls the answer and looks at the answer until the answer manifests and causes the problem to go away! God's Word contains His power, which can change things in the natural world. Very simple.

2 Corinthians 4:17 - While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

The Bible is not suggesting that you deny the sickness, but that you deny it's right to stay on your body, and as you grow, from coming on your body on the first place. The way you do this is call for health and healing using the Word, the promise that God has already spoken about it. The exact same way you received your salvation! Receiving healing and divine heath is no different...you receive it by faith and let it grow in your heart, and it will eventually produce the fruit of healing and health. It's a seedtime, harvest process. Jesus said the entire kingdom works like this (also see Galatians 6:7-9)

As far as exactly how God heals your body...that's easy...

Romans 8:11 - But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He that raised up Jesus Christ from the dead shall also quicken (energize, make alive) your mortal body by His Spirit that lives in you.

If Jesus can turn water into wine, then he can turn sick flesh into healthy flesh. There is no difference to Jesus as far as ability is concerned. This is basic molecular reconstruction. No problem for God, but it takes faith, confession, and action in His Word on our part to get this from God...just like it took faith, confession, and action in His Word on our part for us to get saved.

is healing physical or spiritual...???....another question would be (regarding the 'claiming the healing') that is it in His will to heal you physically?....Is it impeding his glory through you by having a broken leg or not???

Healing is spiritual, but it grows as a seed in your spirit and will eventually cause the manifestation of health in your body. God Word on healing will change your understanding and cause healing to become something you expect from God, and not something that you can never get.

Yes, it is God's will for you to be physically healed and well in your body. The best example of this is Jesus' life and ministry on this earth. (see John 8:38) Jesus only did what He saw in God, and Jesus NEVER told anyone they would have to keep their sickness. The only time Jesus didn't do any miracles in Nazareth, due to their unbelief (see Matthew 13:58) This is why some on this board will always be sick is because they choose not to believe after having seen God's Word on this subject. (kinda like 'ol doubting Thomas, who consistantly refused to believe)

Do you ever get sick?....When/If you do what do you or will you do to stop the sickness from continuing?

I have not been sick in over 14 years now. Before I found out about this, I got sick all the time. The primary way I keep sickness off of me is by continually putting God's Word into my spirit, speaking it, and acting on it. I love God's Words because it's what God thinks, it's His will, it's how He does things...

Proverbs 4:20-22 - My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings. Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart. For they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh.

 

[Maccie]

(kinda like 'ol doubting Thomas, who consistantly refused to believe)

No he didn't "consistently" refuse to believe. He wanted visual proof, yes, but when he got it he went a step further than the other disciples and said "My Lord and my God".

And you haven't answered my questions. Have you ever broken a leg or an arm? Did you walk on it straight away? If you have children, or know close friends who have children, how would you "claim" their healing? Or would they have to "claim" it themselves? And if you have a chicken poxy child, I'd like to see your faith after a sleepless night looking after a feverish, itchy child who couldn't seem to believe they had their healing already.

 

[Maccie]

PS - and what about Epaphroditus, Trophimus and the others of Paul's friends who were ill? To say nothing of Paul himself? When he was stoned and left for dead, did he leap up shouting "I claim my healing" and trot off with no wounds, lacerations etc. still bleeding? No, he had to wait for the other believers to get him.

If you are going to deny that Christians who are sick are "proper" Christians (whatever that may mean) and do not "have their names in the Lamb's book of life" and that everything you say is right and everything the rest of us say is wrong, then I maintain that you are arrogant, insensitive and that I personally cannot believe anything you say is right. As for Word Faith, this would seem to me to be another jumped up organisation from America, where no-one can bear to think anyone else could possibly be right. I doubt its been going more than a few years.

My old Pastor used to call that movement "Blab it and grab it". Rude, but right!

 

[kayanne]

As for Word Faith, this would seem to me to be another jumped up organisation from America, where no-one can bear to think anyone else could possibly be right.

I understand that this thread is a bit frustrating, but please don't react in a way that stereotypes all Americans negatively. Some of us are pretty nice folks!

My old Pastor used to call that movement "Blab it and grab it". Rude, but right!

I love it!

 

[Zoomer]

All I have to say about the WOF movement, it that it has disillusioned so many toward true Christianity when they did not get the healing or wealth they were promised by the WOF preachers. Then the preachers claim it is not God's fault but the believers lack of faith. Many have left the church disillusioned and with no faith in God. I really feel for those who faith has been shaken by these wolves in sheeps clothing. I have do enough research to know that these teaching of the WOF preachers are not Biblical, as well as the off the wall things that these preachers say.

 

[Maccie]

I understand that this thread is a bit frustrating, but please don't react in a way that stereotypes all Americans negatively. Some of us are pretty nice folks!

I'm sure there are lots of nice Americans! I've met some on this Board! The nasty, frustrating ones do shout pretty loudly, though!!!

 

[Rockrz]

You guys are missing the point, and you're trying to prove with your arguments that God is not a good God that desires to see all His Children live happy, healthy, prosperous lives.

If that's you're vision of God, you don't know Him that well. This doesn't mean you aren't saved, it simply means you aren't accessing all that God desires for you to have from what Jesus purchased for mankind.

Like I said earlier, wanna buy some insurance?
You're going to need some really good policies...and you might want to get a good life insurance policy and go ahead and pre-purchase a plot, just in case....

Rejecting God's protection (that belongs to you as a Christian) bring about the need to be prepared so your family members won't be burdened financially when you have either long term medical needs or when you need to be put in the ground. May as well thinks of others...

 

[Maccie]

Trying to frighten us isn't going to do any good.

 

[Rockrz]

Not trying to "frighten" anyone...the devil is looking to steal, kill, and to destroy according to Jesus, who came to bring us ABUNDANT LIFE...

I just don't understand why anyone in their right mind would reject the ABUNDANT LIFE Jesus has given us, and decide they will have the stealing, killing, and destruction that satan provides!

Sounds pretty stupid to me, but then again...it's you're life. You have a right to do whatever you desire.

 

[Strong in Him]

You guys are missing the point, and you're trying to prove with your arguments that God is not a good God that desires to see all His Children live happy, healthy, prosperous lives.

No, you are missing the point. God is a good God - understatement, he's brilliant. He's all powerful, all knowing, majestic, pure, holy, sovereign. He could heal everyone immediately and permanently. But we live in the world, which is imperfect. Christians are affected by an imperfect world, we do not suddenly become exempt from it. we are not promised good health, riches, nice houses, good jobs when we become followers of the Lord Jesus.
"whoever believes in me shall ....." what? Never get flu? Have a good job? "Follow me, and I will make you ....." what? Rich? Healthy? The Lord wants us to turn to him because he forgives our sins, restores our relationship with God, gives us eternal life, makes us co-heirs with Jesus, adopts us as children of God, gives us his Spirit and gives us gifts that will equip us to serve the church. He is able to give us a perfect lifestyle here if he so chooses - someone has to have lots of money to feed the poor and finance churches and charities, someone has to be healthy to look after those of us who aren't. But it is not our right to demand this. He is the potter, we are the clay. Christians do become sick, and poor, and depressed just like everybody else. The difference is that we have someone who can help us through these times. We know that they won't last for ever, and, even if everything on earth is absolutely ghastly, we have an inheritance that is kept for us in heaven. An inheritance that will never fade, spoil or perish. That is something that we can be 100% certain of. This world is not heaven, so we don't have it yet.


I said this in a reply I wrote earlier, but the site crashed before it could be posted. Have you read "Beyond healing" by Jennifer Rees-Larcombe? In pparticular the part where she describes walking round her house repeating the owords "I am well, "I am well", (she had encephilitis) and "I can do all things through Christ" and other affirming Scriptures, and pushing her body much harder than she should have done because she was claiming and living in her healing? The result - she ended up back in hospital, suffering a relapse because she forced herself to work, when she should have been resting, as per the doctor's instructions. Do you think these non christian doctors were impressed by her faith and christian witness, or frustrated by her denial and refusal to help herself recover? She was a person who believed that if you denied you were sick and proclaimed scripture, you very soon found that you weren't sick any more. She probably would have - once - agreed with all your statements about God wanting us to be well. It didn't stop her getting encephilitis and having it for 8 years. It didn't alter the fact that she actually died (or very nearly) in hospital. All the many healing services she was taken to didn't alter the fact that she was confined to a wheelchair, and on the highest rate of DLA possible, and for life. (Which means that the doctors and social services didn't blieve she would get better.) She says herself that the search for healing, attending meetings and services wore her out physically, and was not good for her spiritually because she was seeking the cure and not the healer. God in his mercy did heal her eventually, but only after she had promised him that she would not chase after healing any more, but would trust him to do what he saw was best. If that meant life in a wheelchair, then she was willing to accept that.

This is not a "let's get at this person who is daft enough to believe in healing" thread! (well it can't be - you satrted it!) God can and does heal - praise his holy name! But it is not as simple or automatic as you seemn to make it out to be, and what's more important, the Scriptures do not teach that it is.

 

[Rockrz]

OK, so I guess God doesn't always honor His Word...which makes Him a liar!
Sounds like you have some very strange revelations, brother!

 

[Strong in Him]

As God is not a liar, and examples like the one above do happen, don't you think it might be your interpretation of the word that's wrong?

And I can never be your brother!

 

[Rockrz]

As God is not a liar, and examples like the one above do happen, don't you think it might be your interpretation of the word that's wrong?

Lets see...I've found a way, based purely on God's Promises, to not get sick or injured (divine protection)....and you have decided that you're going to be sick occasionally whether God likes it or not...

Looks like we both are getting what we believe for. I'm happy with my results...are you happy with yours?

And I can never be your brother!

That's too bad that you've rejected the Love of God too!!! No wonder you get sick and have all these problems...you refuse to love other members of the Body of Christ!

Boy, have you got problems...

 

[SPALATIN]

Being sick is a result of living in an imperfect and sinful world. A world that mankind is responsible for making due to sin. Our bodies are imperfect and are vulnerable to death and decay. Does God want us to be sick? I can't say that he wants it but he allows it to happen because of sin.