Where does scripture say God wants us to be sick?

[Rockrz]

I see that alot of Christians think that God wants us to get sick every once in a while and He even occasionally kills people with this same sickness that He brought on them to "teach them something".

Where, under the New Testament, do you see proof that Jesus and/or the Father are in favor of mankind being sick?

 

[seebs]

I don't see any proof either way in Special Revelation, but General Revelation has taught me that I will get colds now and then no matter what.

 

[2+2=5]

I see that alot of Christians think that God wants us to get sick every once in a while and He even occasionally kills people with this same sickness that He brought on them to "teach them something". Where, under the New Testament, do you see proof that Jesus and/or the Father are in favor of mankind being sick?

Working backwards, you obviously must have some very concrete scripture that says God does not want us to get sick.
Maybe you could share that?

 

[kayanne]

I see that alot of Christians think that God wants us to get sick every once in a while and He even occasionally kills people with this same sickness that He brought on them to "teach them something".

Where, under the New Testament, do you see proof that Jesus and/or the Father are in favor of mankind being sick?

I understand Paul's "thorn in the flesh" to be some kind of illness of physical infirmity. Paul pleaded with God to take it away, but God chose to leave Paul as he was.

There are many scriptures that talk about our sufferings and the good that they can bring about. I think that sickness can be included in those sufferings.
(too tired to look up the exact scriptures I'm thinking of; I can do that tomorrow if you want)

 

[HumbleBee]

Paul's thorn in flesh was to keep him humble and dependent on God - 2 Corinthians 12 God said His grace was sufficient for him.

Also in Psalm 119 tiz a verse that says it is good that God has afflicted me. For some people, Divine discipline through affliction brings them back to their spiritual senses...back to Jesus!

 

[StevenL]

Paul's thorn in the flesh was a "messenger (angel) of Satan" sent to beat him. It is identified in the Scripture.....nothing about illness there.

God's revealed will in Old Testament and New was and is healing for His people. Including physical healing.

 

[Bingle]

Pity poor old 'Trophimus was left at Miletum sick' by the Apostle Paul of all people. I think these silly healing addicts should realize that its not always God's way.

 

[Carlos Vigil]

I see that alot of Christians think that God wants us to get sick every once in a while and He even occasionally kills people with this same sickness that He brought on them to "teach them something".

Where, under the New Testament, do you see proof that Jesus and/or the Father are in favor of mankind being sick?

It is not that He wants you to be sick...
It is the choices we have made, that make us sick.
Check out Deuteronomy 30:15-18...if you have time; 11-20

also Mt.13:11,12 and Mt.6:33

 

[Maccie]

Ponder on these verses for a while:

Isaiah 45:7 (fronm the Good News Bible "I create both light and darkness; I bring both blessing and disaster. I, the Lord, do all these things".

Or, if you prefer the KJV "I form the light and create darkness: I make peace and create evil: I the Lord do all these things"

And God doesn't change, does he?

 

[Strong in Him]

Christians get sick just like everyone else, we are not immune from germs and viruses, or any of the problems of this world.

Various suggestions have been made for Paul's thorn in the flesh, including epilepsy, and problems with his eyes. The Bible doesn't say, but Paul does describe his problem as being in the flesh, he says it tormented him and he pleaded with the Lord to remove it, and he testifies that, though the Lord didn't, his grace was all Paul needed in that situation. Paul said then that he would boast about his weaknesses because they were the means by which the power of God would be seen in him.

To answer the original question though, I don't see any verse that tell us that the Lord wants us to be sick. I see loads of verses that tell me that the Lord wants me to be like him and know him better. He can, and will, use anything to bring this about - including sickness.

 

[Strong in Him]

PS Does your post imply that if a christian is living a holy and abundant life he/she will NEVER get ill or die? Because that's not Scriptural either.

 

[Rockrz]

I don't see any proof either way in Special Revelation, but General Revelation has taught me that I will get colds now and then no matter what.

Special revelation? You must be referring to the mind (understanding, vision) of Christ, that is available to all believers and says that Jesus took all sickness and disease upon Himself so mankind wouldn't have to have it!

General revelation? You must be referring to carnal thinking, which is death (see Romans, chapter 8) Of course this world's wisdom is going to tell you that you are going to get sick...they're all trying to sell you something!

All you have to do, brother, is make the decision to be spiritually minded and continually feed your spirit and your mind with what God says, and quit feeding yourself with what the devil says!

Ponder on these verses for a while:

Isaiah 45:7 (fronm the Good News Bible "I create both light and darkness; I bring both blessing and disaster. I, the Lord, do all these things".

Or, if you prefer the KJV "I form the light and create darkness: I make peace and create evil: I the Lord do all these things"

And God doesn't change, does he?

Don't confuse these scriptures contain permissive language in the original Hebrew, because God does not create evil.

If He did then the Bible is wrong when it says there is no darkness in God.
There's a whole study that needs to be done here. I think you should see:

James 1:12,13 (King James Version)
Let no man say when he is tempted (tested and tried), I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

This should answer a few questions, unless you believe James was a false prophet! He was the half brother of Jesus...He grew up in the same household as Jesus, who only did and said what He heard His father say!

 

[Maccie]

Don't confuse these scriptures contain permissive language in the original Hebrew, because God does not create evil.

OK, if you don't trust Isaiah, then how about Amos 3:5 - "Shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?"

I'm only using the KJV because that seems to be what you use. Personally, I prefer a more accurate translation by those who have studied more recent material which is now available.

Yes, I know who the various Jameses are and who the Epistle of James is attributed to.

 

[Rockrz]

how about Amos 3:5 - "Shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?"

K00L! If the Lord didn't do it, that proves my point...

If God didn't do it, the devil did and Jesus has whipped the devil and has given us all power and authority over all his works. If a Christian gets sick it's his own fault for not knowing what God has given us and how to put it to work in their life!

1 Corinthians 2:12
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

They ought to hang out with the Holy Spirit and the Greek and Hebrew dictionary, along with the KJV that works nicely with your Concordance.
I'd stay away from modern translations that twist scripture into saying this like "God gave Paul a thorn in the flesh". (the original Greek never said that!)

Does your post imply that if a Christian is living a holy and abundant life he/she will NEVER get ill or die? Because that's not Scriptural either.

The Bible teaches us that God has made a way to live free from everything satan brought into this earth through the sin of Adam. Now, whether a Christian gets sick, or not, all depends on how that person applies the New Covenant to their lives. Most churches erroneously teach that it's God's will for you to get sick every now and then, therefore many Christians get sick and many even die.

Just because it happens, doesn't mean it's God's will for it to happen! There's all kinds of things going on in the earth that God has provided a way of escape, but mankind is too dense to listen to God. So, this is why the world is in the state that it's in.

I'll not have this in my life because Jesus says I don't have to have it! When I got born-again, I got translated from the kingdom of darkness (where satan is god, and in control...) over to the Kingdom of God's dear Son, where Jesus Christ is Lord. In Him there in no darkness, sickness, poverty, destruction, or any of the other things that came into this world due to Adam's sin.

Yes, you will die...once the Bible says. But, you cannot find anywhere that says God has appointed a time to die, or that He decides how long you're going to live here, because it's not in the scriptures. God says the minimum time you should live here is 70 years (Psalm 90:10).

Here's a good one:

Psalm 91:14-16
Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name.
He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.
With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation (deliverence)

That's the biggest mistake that man-made, carnal religion has taught us....if things look a certain way, then it must be God's will for it to be.

 

[FLMike]

Consider the alternative. What if there was no sickness? Not just sickness, but no injury or suffering at all. And not just physical injury or suffering, but mental and emotional as well. What if none of those things existed? Would we be more Christlike, or less?

I think we face injury and sickness and suffering because in our imperfect state we would become horrible, uncaring creatures otherwise. It is only when we are perfected that we can live in a perfect place.

 

[Maccie]

how about Amos 3:5 - "Shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?"

K00L! If the Lord didn't do it, that proves my point...

I knew the KJV would confuse with its old-fashioned writing! You have got it the wrong way round, rockrz! (and sorry, it is Amos 3:6)

"Does evil befall a city unless the Lord has done it?" (Revised Standard Version)

or "Does disaster strike a city unless the Lord sends it?" (Good News Bible)

So its not 'cool' - it is God who sends disaster, just like Isaiah said.

 

[Rockrz]

In the old Covenant, God did send things like this on those who were evil.
But, under the New Covenant this has changed.

God isn't even counting the sin of the world against them, let alone His own people. (see 2 Corinthians 5:19) When Jesus went to the Cross, it satisfied God's judgment until the final judgment after this age is over.

God is not going around killing people! It's one of His own commandments, "thou shalt not murder", it what is says in the original Hebrew version. God doesn't violate His own Word because He cannot lie. If He went around murdering people, it would make Him a liar.

Here's what Jesus said:

John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

John 17:15,16
I pray not that thou should take them out of the world, but that thou should keep them from the evil....they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

Now, killing isn't always wrong and God only does this (even today) when He has no other choice. If someone is trying to destroy God's people and they absolutely cannot be stopped, then God is obligated to protect His people. Therefore, He may have to put them out of their body in order to protect them. God considers this a righteous thing to vindicate His own!

Here's a good one you can't explain away...

Isaiah 54:8-10, 14-17
In a little anger I hid my face from you for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on you, says the LORD thy Redeemer....for this is as the waters of Noah unto Me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be angry with you, or rebuke you....for the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace be removed, says the LORD that has mercy on you....in righteousness shall you be established: you shall be far from oppression; for you shall not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near you....look, they shall surely gather together, but not by Me: whosoever shall gather together against you shall fall for your sake....no weapon that is formed against you shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against you, in judgment you shall condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of Me, says the LORD.

 

[Strong in Him]

The Bible teaches us that God has made a way to live free from everything satan brought into this earth through the sin of Adam.

It does? Where? The New Testament says that sin and death came into the world through Adam, salvation and life have come in through Jesus (1 Corinthians 15:22+23). Jesus takes away our sins and gives us eternal life.

Now, whether a Christian gets sick, or not, all depends on how that person applies the New Covenant to their lives.

And your scriptural basis for this teaching is ...... ?

Most churches erroneously teach that it's God's will for you to get sick every now and then, therefore many Christians get sick and many even die.

Well you must know some different churches to me then, because I've never heard that.
Christians becoming ill is a fact of life. Spirituality has nothing to do with it.

I'll not have this in my life because Jesus says I don't have to have it! When I got born-again, I got translated from the kingdom of darkness (where satan is god, and in control...) over to the Kingdom of God's dear Son, where Jesus Christ is Lord. In Him there in no darkness, sickness, poverty, destruction, or any of the other things that came into this world due to Adam's sin.

Well that seems a positive and noble attitude. But I would humbly suggest that if you ever get ill, pray for healing and don't receive it immediately, you'll change your mind. What do you say to people like Joni Eareckson then, who is still paralysed despite many prayers for healing, but who has a fantastic ministry among people with disabilities, and brought many to the Lord? Or what about David Watson, who had Christians from all over the world praying for his physiacl healing, and was told by some that he didn't have to have cancer, but who died from it anyway?

Yes, you will die...once the Bible says. But, you cannot find anywhere that says God has appointed a time to die, or that He decides how long you're going to live here, because it's not in the scriptures.

Apart maybe from Psalm 139v16, which says

"All the days ordained for me were written in your book before any one of them came to be."

God says the minimum time you should live here is 70 years (Psalm 90:10).

If God says that no one should die under the age of 70, he's either slipped up, or he's lying. Millions of people die a lot younger than that - Christians included.

That's the biggest mistake that man-made, carnal religion has taught us....if things look a certain way, then it must be God's will for it to be.

Up to a point. I wouldn't say the evil in the world was God's will. But if a christian is sick and it's REALLY not God's will that he should be, then God will heal him. God is not the "whoops, how did that happen when I wasn't looking? I'll have to do better next time," type of God.

 

[Rockrz]

if a Christian is sick and it's REALLY not God's will that he should be, then God will heal him.

Yeah, and if someone is not saved and going to hell, then God would force them to receive salvation, too!

Going by your reasoning, God should jump out and cause everyone on the planet to get saved by morning!

No, God provided every man an opportunity. It's not automatic because you have to come to God on His terms and learn how to receive from Him based on faith. You have to believe it first, then you'll see the manifestation in the natural.

We got saved this way, and this is how all the other things God is offering works too. His ways don't change

 

[Strong in Him]

Yeah, and if someone is not saved and going to hell, then God would force them to receive salvation, too!

Going by your reasoning, God should jump out and cause everyone on the planet to get saved by morning!

No because God gives us free will. We can accept or reject his offer of unconditional love and eternal life. It doesn't stop him from trying to change our minds, but one day we will die, and have no more chances.

Sickness is not about free will. People do not choose to be born handicapped, or with a hereditary condition. I did not choose to get M.E - which stuffed up the career I thought God was calling me to. But God could have stopped my M.E at any point, before I got it and afterwards. The fact that he hasn't, after much prayer, leads me to conclude that, for whatever reason, he is choosing to allow it for the moment. The alternative is that he really wants to take it away but is powerless to do so, which I do not believe.
He's never said to me "here is good health, it's up to you to receive it". He never says that to anyone.

So, does God sit in heaven and say "Because I am a loving Father, I want all my children to be sick"? no, of course not. Does he allow his children to be sick sometimes? Obviously.