where does one get their authority?

[Daniel Marsh]

Christian authority

For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven and do not return there but
water the earth, making it bring forth and sprout, giving seed to the sower and
bread to the eater, so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not
return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall
succeed in the thing for which I sent it. (Isa. 55:10-11 ESV)


All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for
correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be
complete, equipped for every good work. (2 Tim. 3:16-17 ESV)



For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword,
piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and
discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. And no creature is hidden
from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must
give account. (Heb. 4:12-13 ESV)


“This God—his way is perfect; the word of the LORD proves true; he is a shield for
all those who take refuge in him.” (Psa. 18:30 ESV)

https://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1037&context=djrc

 

[com7fy8]

So, I see there are people who have authority which God has given to them.

There are even ungodly ones to whom God has given authority. But how much can they do with it?

Our best authority comes with the word of God.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

As we know from Romans 13 the State has the authority to punish evil doers and make War.

Biblical Authority is tempered with correct interpretation in accord with the body of Christ.

One must use commonsense rules of interpretation like context and comparing texts.

 

[Fidelibus]

So, I see there are people who have authority which God has given to them.

The authority to do what? And whom might these people be?

There are even ungodly ones to whom God has given authority. But how much can they do with it?

Again, the authority to do what? And who are these ungodly people that God has supposedly given authority too?

Our best authority comes with the word of God.

Where in the bible does it say this?

Have a Blessed day!

 

[Fidelibus]

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. (2 Tim. 3:16-17 ESV)

Well, let's look at these passages a little more thoroughly and in context. When we read the above passages from Scripture, it does not state what you and most Protestants claim it states. It does not state that the Bible is "sufficient." It does not state that the Bible Alone is the sole rule of faith for Christians. What it does though, it declares that Scripture is "useful", and makes us "competent", and "equipped." And to that, we Catholics say a heartfelt Amen!

Now, to conclude that the above passages supports Sola Scriptura is stretching it a bit much. As Catholics, we believe that the Bible is useful. And that it equips us. And that it teaches us. But we don't believe that the Bible alone is all we need, simply because these passages never states this. I challenge any adherent to the belief of Sola Scriptura, (SS) to search the Bible from Genesis to Revelation and find one verse which declares that the Bible, and the Bible alone is sufficient, and is to be the sole rule of faith for Christians, and post it here.

One also should keep in mind that when Paul wrote this epistle to Timothy, the New Testament was not yet complete. So what Paul was referring to when he declares "All Scripture is inspired by God" was the Jewish Scriptures--the Old Testament. And thus when adherents to the belief of SS to invoke these passages to prove SS, they may actually be proving too much. Those adherents will only be arguing for the fact that Paul is declaring that the Old Testament is sufficient.

Another thing to remember, If we were to read just a few verses earlier we see that Paul is telling Timothy:

"But you, remain faithful to what you have learned and believed, because you know from whom you learned it, and that from "infancy" you have known the sacred scriptures, which are capable of giving you wisdom for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus." (2 Tim. 3:14-15)

As one can see from these passages, it is quite apparent the Scriptures that Timothy, a Jewish convert, knew "from infancy" are the books from the Old Testament only. Additionally, we can see from the above verse that Paul is also referring to the oral instruction that Timothy received. This supports the Catholic paradigm of Sacred Scripture (written) AND Sacred Tradition (oral) transmission of the Word of God.

We Catholics and hopefully Protestants can see that while Scripture is profitable, useful and equips us, what the Bible does "NOT" state... that it is sufficient, and all we need as a sole rule of faith.

Have a Blessed Day!

 

[Fidelibus]

As we know from Romans 13 the State has the authority to punish evil doers and make War.

Romans [13:1–7] Paul must come to grips with the problem raised by a message that declares people free from the law. How are they to relate to Roman authority? The problem was exacerbated by the fact that imperial protocol was interwoven with devotion to various deities. Paul builds on the traditional instruction exhibited in Wis 6:1–3, according to which kings and magistrates rule by consent of God. From this perspective, then, believers who render obedience to the governing authorities are obeying the one who is highest in command. At the same time, it is recognized that Caesar has the responsibility to make just ordinances and to commend uprightness; cf. Wis 6:4–21. That Caesar is not entitled to obedience when such obedience would nullify God’s prior claim to the believers’ moral decision becomes clear in the light of the following verses.

Biblical Authority is tempered with correct interpretation in accord with the body of Christ.

Question... which one is it among all the many and different Protestant, Evangelical, Fundamentalist, and non-Denominational churches who's authority is "tempered with the correct interpretation of the Bible over the rest?

One must use commonsense rules of interpretation like context and comparing texts.

Again, same question....which one is it among all the many and different Protestant, Evangelical, Fundamentalist, and non-Denominational churches that have the authority over the rest to use commonsense rules of interpretation like context and comparing texts?

Have a Blessed day!

 

[com7fy8]

Our best authority comes with the word of God.

The authority to do what? And whom might these people be?

Christian authority

For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven and do not return there but
water the earth, making it bring forth and sprout, giving seed to the sower and
bread to the eater, so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not
return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall
succeed in the thing for which I sent it. (Isa. 55:10-11 ESV)

We have authority to do what God purposes . . . what God means by His word.

God's word says our Father has destined His children to be changed into the likeness of Jesus > Romans 8:29. My opinion is this is the best we have authority to accomplish, with God. And there is nothing better than this, to have the authority to do, and this authority is "with the word of God" which claims this and commands this and indicates that this is done by means of ministering, "according to His working which works in me mightily," our Apostle Paul does say, in Colossians 1:28-29.

And God's word says things which we all in Jesus need to do and therefore have authority to do, in order to minister for one another to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ who is God's own Son who came here through the body of the virgin Mary and so suffered and died for us and then rose on the third day to be Lord of all.

Colossians 1:28-29 shows how Paul ministers for us to be perfected in Jesus.

Also, we have Ephesians 4:15 which shows we speak to one another in the way which ministers for us all to grow up in Christ, "in all things".

Plus, we have a practical thing, including of correction and discipline, commanded so we become how God's love changes us to become like Jesus > Philippians 2:13-16.

And scripture clearly tells us to seek God's will in prayer, and God's will includes how we are being changed into the image of Christ; therefore every child of God has authority to pray for us to be conformed to the image of Christ, since this is our Father's will which we pray to be done.

So, all of God's people have this authority to labor to accomplish this with God >

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

We have this authority, with God's word, and Isaiah 55:11 which Daniel quoted is clear that God's word "shall accomplish" what God pleases. So, we have accomplishing, as well as authority, of God's word. And this is not limited to how well we can understand context, because God's word does all which He Himself is able to understand His word to mean. But He in us is the One who works all He means. Therefore we have authority by means of laboring "according to His working", as Paul our example says he does, in Colossians 1:28-29.

So, our authority comes with being in submission to our Father working in us . . . as His word authorizes by commanding this > "Therefore submit to God." (in James 4:7)

This brings the best of all we have authority to do. And all who are submissive to God have this authority. And all God's children are called to this, "in one body" . . . by being submissive to how our Father personally rules every one of us in His own peace >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

And God's word gives us more about all the best we have authority to do, including >

Ephesians 5:2

Hebrews 12:4-14

Matthew 11:28-30

Philippians 4:4-7

1 Timothy 3:1-10

Ephesians 4:31-32 > including "forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you."

 

[concretecamper]

According to the Bible, it's the Church.

Mat 18:17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.
18:18 Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.
18:19 Again I say to you, that if two of you shall consent upon earth, concerning anything whatsoever they shall ask, it shall be done to them by my Father who is in heaven.
18:20 For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Pretty clear to me.

 

[Fidelibus]

According to the Bible, it's the Church.

Mat 18:17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.
18:18 Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.
18:19 Again I say to you, that if two of you shall consent upon earth, concerning anything whatsoever they shall ask, it shall be done to them by my Father who is in heaven.
18:20 For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Pretty clear to me.

Yep.... looks pretty clear to me too!

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Well, let's look at these passages a little more thoroughly and in context. When we read the above passages from Scripture, it does not state what you and most Protestants claim it states. It does not state that the Bible is "sufficient." It does not state that the Bible Alone is the sole rule of faith for Christians. What it does though, it declares that Scripture is "useful", and makes us "competent", and "equipped." And to that, we Catholics say a heartfelt Amen!

Now, to conclude that the above passages supports Sola Scriptura is stretching it a bit much. As Catholics, we believe that the Bible is useful. And that it equips us. And that it teaches us. But we don't believe that the Bible alone is all we need, simply because these passages never states this. I challenge any adherent to the belief of Sola Scriptura, (SS) to search the Bible from Genesis to Revelation and find one verse which declares that the Bible, and the Bible alone is sufficient, and is to be the sole rule of faith for Christians, and post it here.

One also should keep in mind that when Paul wrote this epistle to Timothy, the New Testament was not yet complete. So what Paul was referring to when he declares "All Scripture is inspired by God" was the Jewish Scriptures--the Old Testament. And thus when adherents to the belief of SS to invoke these passages to prove SS, they may actually be proving too much. Those adherents will only be arguing for the fact that Paul is declaring that the Old Testament is sufficient.

Another thing to remember, If we were to read just a few verses earlier we see that Paul is telling Timothy:

"But you, remain faithful to what you have learned and believed, because you know from whom you learned it, and that from "infancy" you have known the sacred scriptures, which are capable of giving you wisdom for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus." (2 Tim. 3:14-15)

As one can see from these passages, it is quite apparent the Scriptures that Timothy, a Jewish convert, knew "from infancy" are the books from the Old Testament only. Additionally, we can see from the above verse that Paul is also referring to the oral instruction that Timothy received. This supports the Catholic paradigm of Sacred Scripture (written) AND Sacred Tradition (oral) transmission of the Word of God.

We Catholics and hopefully Protestants can see that while Scripture is profitable, useful and equips us, what the Bible does "NOT" state... that it is sufficient, and all we need as a sole rule of faith.

Have a Blessed Day!

Blessings back friend,

Definition of sufficient


1a: enough to meet the needs of a situation or a proposed end sufficient provisions for a month
b: being a sufficient condition
2archaic : QUALIFIED, COMPETENT
Definition of SUFFICIENT

For example,

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. (2 Tim. 3:16-17 ESV)

Definition of complete (Entry 1 of 2)
1a: having all necessary parts, elements, or steps
a complete diet
bof a protein : containing all essential amino acids
Beans and grains combined together form a complete protein.
2a: TOTAL, ABSOLUTE
complete silence
b: fully carried out : THOROUGH
a complete renovation
cof a football pass : legally caught
3: brought to an end : CONCLUDED
a complete period of time
4: highly proficient
a complete artist
5of a subject or predicate : including modifiers, complements, or objects
6of insect metamorphosis : characterized by the occurrence of a pupal stage between the motile immature stages and the adult
— compare INCOMPLETE sense 3
7: having all four sets of floral organs
8of a metric space : having the property that every Cauchy sequence of elements converges to a limit in the space
complete with
: made complete by the inclusion of
a birthday cake complete with candles
complete verb
completed; completing
Definition of complete (Entry 2 of 2)
transitive verb

1: to bring to an end and especially into a perfected state
complete a painting
2a: to make whole or perfect
Its song completes the charm of the bird.
Her latest purchase completes her collection.
b: to mark the end of
A rousing chorus completes the show.
c: EXECUTE, FULFILL
complete a contract
3: to carry out (a forward pass) successfully
The quarterback completed 12 out of 18 passes.

Definition of COMPLETE

Definition of equip
(Entry 1 of 2)

transitive verb

1: to furnish for service or action by appropriate provisioningequip an army
2: DRESS, ARRAY
3: to make ready : PREPAREwasn't equipped to handle the pressures of the job

Definition of EQUIPPED

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Romans [13:1–7] Paul must come to grips with the problem raised by a message that declares people free from the law. How are they to relate to Roman authority? The problem was exacerbated by the fact that imperial protocol was interwoven with devotion to various deities. Paul builds on the traditional instruction exhibited in Wis 6:1–3, according to which kings and magistrates rule by consent of God. From this perspective, then, believers who render obedience to the governing authorities are obeying the one who is highest in command. At the same time, it is recognized that Caesar has the responsibility to make just ordinances and to commend uprightness; cf. Wis 6:4–21. That Caesar is not entitled to obedience when such obedience would nullify God’s prior claim to the believers’ moral decision becomes clear in the light of the following verses.



Question... which one is it among all the many and different Protestant, Evangelical, Fundamentalist, and non-Denominational churches who's authority is "tempered with the correct interpretation of the Bible over the rest?



Again, same question....which one is it among all the many and different Protestant, Evangelical, Fundamentalist, and non-Denominational churches that have the authority over the rest to use commonsense rules of interpretation like context and comparing texts?

Have a Blessed day!

I agree it is clear, when laws of Government conflict with God's Law we are to obey God.
That was never disagreed with. We are not under God's law today because we are are under his Grace. Catholic Brethren and Others define the stages of Grace differently.
Protestants would take texts like II Peter 1 to refer to Sanctification. I will be leaving soon to go to the Doctors.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

According to the Bible, it's the Church.

Mat 18:17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.
18:18 Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.
18:19 Again I say to you, that if two of you shall consent upon earth, concerning anything whatsoever they shall ask, it shall be done to them by my Father who is in heaven.
18:20 For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Pretty clear to me.

Correction on verse 18 what is bound on earth was already bound in Heaven first. We know this from studies on the Greek Grammar. Even Catholic Scholars agree see A Grammatical Analysis of the Greek New Testament by by Maximilian Zerwick (Author), Mary Grosvenor
https://www.amazon.com/Grammatical-Analysis-Greek-New-Testament/dp/8876535888

 

[concretecamper]

Correction on verse 18 what is bound on earth was already bound in Heaven first.

Heaven being outside of time does cause some confusion, doesn't it?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Revelation 1:18
I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Ephesians 2:20
New International Version
built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.

Shepherd of hermas cleary recognizes the Son of God as the Foundation Rock.

Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Matthew 18
King James Version
18 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?

We agree that Peter is first among equals.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Heaven being outside of time does cause some confusion, doesn't it?

No really, when one repents, the angels have a party, it is latter that the Church on earth recognizes that person repented.

Authority flows downhill as I am sure we agree.

 

[Fidelibus]

Blessings back friend,

Definition of sufficient


1a: enough to meet the needs of a situation or a proposed end sufficient provisions for a month
b: being a sufficient condition
2archaic : QUALIFIED, COMPETENT
Definition of SUFFICIENT

For example,

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. (2 Tim. 3:16-17 ESV)

And Blessings to you!
As for your example here of sufficiency in 2 Cor. 12:9 I will admit the word 'sufficient' is present. And as you can clearly see, nowhere in this passage does it mention that the Bible alone is sufficient as a sole rule of faith. However to get the full context of what Paul was trying to get across, one must include verses 7,8, and 10.

"Therefore, that I might not become too elated, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, an angel of Satan, to beat me, to keep me from being too elated. 8 Three times I begged the Lord about this, that is might leave me, 9 but he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is made perfect in weakness." I will rather boast most gladly of my weakness, in order that the power of Christ may dwell with me. 10 Therefore, I am content with weakness, insults, hardships, persecutions, and constraints, for the sake of Christ; for when I am weak, then I am strong."

In humility, Paul refers to his suffering in some affliction that God allowed him to experience to ensure that his supernatural gifts did not make him proud and boastful. Paul does not reveal the exact nature of his "throne in the flesh," but some Church Fathers and modern commentators suggest that it was some painful and humiliating physical ailment. It is probably the same condition he refers to in Galatians 4:13-15, and may have been a condition brought on by his initial loss of sight after his blinding vision of the resurrected Christ in his conversion experience since he says if the Galatians could they would have given him their eyes.

Paul attributes his affliction to "an angel from Satan." This affliction suggests that the disability could have been seen as an obstacle to his mission to evangelize. Paul says that three times he asked the Lord to heal him of his affliction, and three times the Lord told him to endure because God's grace was enough to enable him to live with his affliction. Paul says that his weakness in his physical condition and his submission to the will of God for his life has made him stronger in his faith in the Lord Jesus. He thanks God that his weakness has made the grace of God greater in his life and his mission since he knows that his missionary work is not his success but can only boast that it is Christ working through him.

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. (2 Tim. 3:16-17 ESV)

The context of 2 Timothy 3:16–17 is Paul laying down a guideline for Timothy to make use of Scripture and tradition in his ministry as a bishop. Paul says, “But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; and that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God (Greek: theopneustos = “God-breathed”), and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works” (2 Tim. 3:14–17).

In verse 14, Timothy is initially exhorted to hold to the oral teachings—the traditions—that he received from the apostle Paul. This echoes Paul’s reminder of the value of oral tradition in 1:13–14, “Follow the pattern of the sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus; guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us” (RSV), and “what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also” (2:2). Here Paul refers exclusively to oral teaching and reminds Timothy to follow that as the “pattern” for his own teaching (1:13). Only after this is Scripture mentioned as “profitable” for Timothy’s ministry. (source-catholicanswers.com)

The thing to keep in mind DM, is that nowhere does the Bible say, “Scripture alone is sufficient,” and nowhere does the Bible imply it. That includes 2 Tim. 3:16-17

Have a Blessed Day!

 

[Daniel Marsh]

And Blessings to you!
As for your example here of sufficiency in 2 Cor. 12:9 I will admit the word 'sufficient' is present. And as you can clearly see, nowhere in this passage does it mention that the Bible alone is sufficient as a sole rule of faith. However to get the full context of what Paul was trying to get across, one must include verses 7,8, and 10.

"Therefore, that I might not become too elated, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, an angel of Satan, to beat me, to keep me from being too elated. 8 Three times I begged the Lord about this, that is might leave me, 9 but he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is made perfect in weakness." I will rather boast most gladly of my weakness, in order that the power of Christ may dwell with me. 10 Therefore, I am content with weakness, insults, hardships, persecutions, and constraints, for the sake of Christ; for when I am weak, then I am strong."

In humility, Paul refers to his suffering in some affliction that God allowed him to experience to ensure that his supernatural gifts did not make him proud and boastful. Paul does not reveal the exact nature of his "throne in the flesh," but some Church Fathers and modern commentators suggest that it was some painful and humiliating physical ailment. It is probably the same condition he refers to in Galatians 4:13-15, and may have been a condition brought on by his initial loss of sight after his blinding vision of the resurrected Christ in his conversion experience since he says if the Galatians could they would have given him their eyes.

Paul attributes his affliction to "an angel from Satan." This affliction suggests that the disability could have been seen as an obstacle to his mission to evangelize. Paul says that three times he asked the Lord to heal him of his affliction, and three times the Lord told him to endure because God's grace was enough to enable him to live with his affliction. Paul says that his weakness in his physical condition and his submission to the will of God for his life has made him stronger in his faith in the Lord Jesus. He thanks God that his weakness has made the grace of God greater in his life and his mission since he knows that his missionary work is not his success but can only boast that it is Christ working through him.



The context of 2 Timothy 3:16–17 is Paul laying down a guideline for Timothy to make use of Scripture and tradition in his ministry as a bishop. Paul says, “But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; and that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God (Greek: theopneustos = “God-breathed”), and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works” (2 Tim. 3:14–17).

In verse 14, Timothy is initially exhorted to hold to the oral teachings—the traditions—that he received from the apostle Paul. This echoes Paul’s reminder of the value of oral tradition in 1:13–14, “Follow the pattern of the sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus; guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us” (RSV), and “what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also” (2:2). Here Paul refers exclusively to oral teaching and reminds Timothy to follow that as the “pattern” for his own teaching (1:13). Only after this is Scripture mentioned as “profitable” for Timothy’s ministry. (source-catholicanswers.com)

The thing to keep in mind DM, is that nowhere does the Bible say, “Scripture alone is sufficient,” and nowhere does the Bible imply it. That includes 2 Tim. 3:16-17

Have a Blessed Day!

What about the rest of the points I made?

I agree Scripture must be understood as part of a corporate group.

Paul does not use the word tradition in II Tim 3, where do you see that?

Thanks,
Daniel

 

[Fidelibus]

What about the rest of the points I made?

????... I addressed the Scripture passages you posted (2 Corn. 12:9; 2 Tim. 3:16-17) and even added verses to bring the latter verses into context. I didn't know you wanted me to comment on Definitions of some words that you copied and pasted from who knows what web-site.

I agree Scripture must be understood as part of a corporate group.

Alrighty then!

Paul does not use the word tradition in II Tim 3, where do you see that?

How then would you define 2 Tim. 3;14; "But you, remain faithful to what you have learned and believed, because you know from whom you learned it" if not Oral Tradition? As well as:

Mark 7:9
Gal. 1:14; Col. 2:22
Acts 2: 42
John 17:20
Acts 2:42
Acts 20:7
1 Cor. 11:2
Col. 1:5-6
1 Thess.1:5
2 Thess. 2:15
Acts 20:35

Just to list a few examples of "Oral Traditions" found in Scripture. I could list a slew more if you wish.

Also DM, Back on post # 6, I asked you a couple of questions that you failed to address. Would you mind doing so in your next post? Here they are again:

"Question... which one is it, among all the many and different Protestant, Evangelical, Fundamentalist, and non-Denominational churches who's authority is "tempered with the correct interpretation of the Bible over the rest?"

And:

Which one is it, among all the many and different Protestant, Evangelical, Fundamentalist, and non-Denominational churches that has the authority over the rest to use commonsense rules of interpretation like context and comparing texts?

Have a Blessed day!

 

[Daniel Marsh]

????... I addressed the Scripture passages you posted (2 Corn. 12:9; 2 Tim. 3:16-17) and even added verses to bring the latter verses into context. I didn't know you wanted me to comment on Definitions of some words that you copied and pasted from who knows what web-site.



Alrighty then!


How then would you define 2 Tim. 3;14; "But you, remain faithful to what you have learned and believed, because you know from whom you learned it" if not Oral Tradition? As well as:

Mark 7:9
Gal. 1:14; Col. 2:22
Acts 2: 42
John 17:20
Acts 2:42
Acts 20:7
1 Cor. 11:2
Col. 1:5-6
1 Thess.1:5
2 Thess. 2:15
Acts 20:35

Just to list a few examples of "Oral Traditions" found in Scripture. I could list a slew more if you wish.

Also DM, Back on post # 6, I asked you a couple of questions that you failed to address. Would you mind doing so in your next post? Here they are again:

"Question... which one is it, among all the many and different Protestant, Evangelical, Fundamentalist, and non-Denominational churches who's authority is "tempered with the correct interpretation of the Bible over the rest?"

And:

Which one is it, among all the many and different Protestant, Evangelical, Fundamentalist, and non-Denominational churches that has the authority over the rest to use commonsense rules of interpretation like context and comparing texts?

Have a Blessed day!

Have a fantastic Day in our Lord Brother.

Yes, can include oral traditions. I think oral tradition may have been written down in the NT.

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

2 Thessalonians 3:6
Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

 

[Fidelibus]

Have a fantastic Day in our Lord Brother.

And you as well.

Yes, can include oral traditions. I think oral tradition may have been written down in the NT. 2 Thessalonians 2:15-- "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."

The Catholic Church's teaching of this verse coffee4u is that Paul uses the word "traditions" twice in his letter (also see 3:6). It is common knowledge that many non-Catholic Christians often portray "tradition" in a negative light as a man-made addition to God's revelation in Scripture. As a proof-text they like to quote Jesus' words in Mark 7:8, "You disregard God's commandments but cling to human tradition." Jesus was referring to the additions that were unwritten human laws regarded by the Pharisees to have the same binding force as the traditions of Mosaic Law that were received both orally and in writing. Jesus accuses them that they set aside the commandment of God in order to uphold your tradition (Mk 7:9; also see Gal 1:14). Jesus was answering a question from the Pharisees concerning the failure of His disciples in not ritually purifying their hands before eating a meal (Mk 7:1-5).

Those who reject all forms of tradition fail to acknowledge that Jesus did not mean that we were to avoid all forms of "tradition." He only meant the traditions introduced by humans that set out to invalidate the works and words of God. There are "Traditions" that the Church received from Jesus, like the Sacraments, and there are "traditions" that individual communities celebrate that are associated with their history and customs. Both kinds of "tradition" glorify God and His work in the Church. Besides, those who reject all forms of "tradition" that are Catholic are themselves guilty of "traditions" that they observe in their worship services and the organization of their communities that are not in Scripture.

In Matthew 23:1, He told the Jews, "The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat on the chair of Moses. Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example." Jesus was upholding the oral and written traditions of Old Testament Law. The "chair of Moses" referred to the seat of authority where the president of the Synagogue sat during religious services. In the Catholic Church, that seat of authority is the "Chair of St. Peter."
In fact, Scripture commands adherence to the apostolic tradition handed down by Christ to His Apostles: "I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold fast to the traditions, just as I handed them on to you."-- (1 Cor 11:20)

"Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours."-- (2 Thess. 2:15)

"We instruct you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, to shun any brother who conducts himself in a disorderly way and not according to the tradition they received from us."-- (2 Thess. 3:6)

The Church affirms that the Gospel was handed on in two ways according to the Lord's command: orally and in writing.------"orally by the apostles who handed on, by the spoken word of their preaching, by the example they gave, by the institutions they established, what they themselves had received: whether from the lips of Christ, from his way of life and his works, or whether they had learned it at the prompting of the Holy Spirit'" (CCC 76a).

"in writing by those apostles and other men associated with the apostles who, under the inspiration of the same Holy Spirit, committed the message of salvation to writing'" (CCC 76b).

The Church teaches: "This living transmission, accomplished in the Holy Spirit, is called Tradition, since it is distinct from Sacred Scripture, though closely connected to it. Through Tradition, the Church, in her doctrine, life, and worship perpetuates and transmits to every generation all that she herself is, all that she believes.' The sayings of the holy Fathers are a witness to the life-giving presence of this Tradition, showing how its riches are poured out in the practice and life of the Church, in her belief and her prayer'" (CCC 78).

In verses 6-15, Paul addresses a problem within the community. There are those in the community who are not behaving as they should, and Paul urges the members to avoid these people if they refuse brotherly correction (3:6 and 14). It appears certain members of the community are relying on the charity of others and not working to support themselves. Paul asks that the community imitate him and the other members of his team who worked to support themselves and were not a burden to the community. --(source--Agape Catholic Bible Study)

Have a Blessed Day!