Where does morality come from?

[Moral Orel]

Sure, but you can imagine Middle Earth too, doesnt make it real.

That isn't analogous. My feelings are real, I didn't imagine them up. I experienced them. You're saying I only imagined experiencing things? No one actually experiences things? Because that sounds crazy.

 

[Moral Orel]

Subjective feelings do not make objective fact.

I never said they do. They feel they're right in the sense that justice was served; because the child did something bad, the child deserved to have something bad happen to him. You feel that they're wrong in the sense that it isn't effective discipline; because it isn't likely to prevent bad behavior in the future.

 

[Moral Orel]

But if a position is truly unfalsifiable, then one need not cease to believe it regardless of the evidence.

If you want to get all technical about it, every position is unfalsifiable, so why bother discussing anything? We accept the axioms of logic, and they're unfalsifiable, so everything else is unfalsifiable by extension. Hey, maybe X and ~X are both true, who knows?

 

[Kylie]

I never said they do. They feel they're right in the sense that justice was served; because the child did something bad, the child deserved to have something bad happen to him. You feel that they're wrong in the sense that it isn't effective discipline; because it isn't likely to prevent bad behavior in the future.

And now you are using the word "feel" in relation to morality.

 

[Moral Orel]

And now you are using the word "feel" in relation to morality.

And?

 

[Kylie]

And?

It only makes sense if morality is subjective, based on people's feelings.

 

[public hermit]

Can't we all just agree that we don't objectively agree and then love each other, just like Jesus said?

 

[Moral Orel]

It only makes sense if morality is subjective, based on people's feelings.

I agree. Morality is subjective and based on emotions. Did I say something that you believe implies I was claiming something else? Where did we take a wrong turn in our conversation?

 

[VirOptimus]

That isn't analogous. My feelings are real, I didn't imagine them up. I experienced them. You're saying I only imagined experiencing things? No one actually experiences things? Because that sounds crazy.

The values you ascribe to well, anything, like good, bad, nice, fair etc are all imaginations that exist only in your brain. They do not have an real, independent existance, its all metaphysical constructs.

 

[Kylie]

I agree. Morality is subjective and based on emotions. Did I say something that you believe implies I was claiming something else? Where did we take a wrong turn in our conversation?

Sorry. For some reason, I thought you had the opposite position.

 

[Moral Orel]

The values you ascribe to well, anything, like good, bad, nice, fair etc are all imaginations that exist only in your brain. They do not have an real, independent existance, its all metaphysical constructs.

So, I only imagine that I like chocolate ice cream, that's fictional, I don't like chocolate ice cream...

 

[VirOptimus]

So, I only imagine that I like chocolate ice cream, that's fictional, I don't like chocolate ice cream...

Haha, no, of course you do.

But the values you ascribe to chocolate ice cream doesnt exist.

Are you familiar with Heidegger?

 

[Moral Orel]

Haha, no, of course you do.

But the values you ascribe to chocolate ice cream doesnt exist.

Okay, so since I do in fact like it, I do in fact value it, right? I mean, I want it, I desire it, I would give things up for it, those are all still in the realm of facts, ya? (That makes it sound like I love chocolate ice cream way more than I actually do... I'm not saying I have a healthy relationship with chocolate, but it isn't nearly as bad as my meth addiction.)

I don't "ascribe" values to things. I don't declare that chocolate ice cream is intrinsically good, of course. I label it "good" because I like it. Since "good" is simply a label I apply to mean "a thing I like", I haven't imagined anything, correct? I wanna see how far I can get before I say something fictitious.

Are you familiar with Heidegger?

Nope. I only filosophize forum style because I enjoy reasoning as a sport.

 

[VirOptimus]

Okay, so since I do in fact like it, I do in fact value it, right? I mean, I want it, I desire it, I would give things up for it, those are all still in the realm of facts, ya? (That makes it sound like I love chocolate ice cream way more than I actually do... I'm not saying I have a healthy relationship with chocolate, but it isn't nearly as bad as my meth addiction.)

I don't "ascribe" values to things. I don't declare that chocolate ice cream is intrinsically good, of course. I label it "good" because I like it. Since "good" is simply a label I apply to mean "a thing I like", I haven't imagined anything, correct? I wanna see how far I can get before I say something fictitious.

Nope. I only filosophize forum style because I enjoy reasoning as a sport.

Ok, are you familiar with Kant?

Yes you ascribe, the ”good” is all in you, its not a property of the ice-cream.

 

[Moral Orel]

Ok, are you familiar with Kant?

Awww... You're just going to dismiss that whole post? Did I say something fictitious already?

 

[public hermit]

I wanna see how far I can get before I say something fictitious.

At this rate, it looks as if your only risk of being fictitious is when you stop talking (typing). In other words, whatever you say is true, as concerns this subject, in terms of your saying it. There is no limit to your opinion, so when would you ever say anything fictitious?

 

[VirOptimus]

Awww... You're just going to dismiss that whole post? Did I say something fictitious already?

I amended.

 

[Moral Orel]

Yes you ascribe, the ”good” is all in you, its not a property of the ice-cream.

As I said though, "good" is a label, I'm not saying anything other than "I like it" by saying "it is good". When I say "I find chocolate ice cream tasty", I'm describing the experience it gives me. I'm not stating that "tastiness" is an inherent quality of the ice cream.

You didn't object to anything else in that post, is it fair to assume that "I value chocolate ice cream" is a fact because "I like chocolate ice cream" is a fact?

 

[VirOptimus]

As I said though, "good" is a label, I'm not saying anything other than "I like it" by saying "it is good". When I say "I find chocolate ice cream tasty", I'm describing the experience it gives me. I'm not stating that "tastiness" is an inherent quality of the ice cream.

You didn't object to anything else in that post, is it fair to assume that "I value chocolate ice cream" is a fact because "I like chocolate ice cream" is a fact?

Im sure you do like it.

Like; what is that? ”Like” is a statement that you find in tasty and enjoyable and therefore a value judgement. Value judgements can never be ”wrong” or ”right” as values are not part of physical reality, and I contest, not existing. Its something we make up, that certainly doesnt mean they dont matter.

That said, its an objective fact that strawberry ice cream is superiour in all ways.

 

[Kylie]

That said, its an objective fact that strawberry ice cream is superiour in all ways.

Chocolate is objectively far better than strawberry in every conceivable way. And several non-conceivable ways too.