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Where do you fit ?

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Jeffwhosoever

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I'll digest all of that and draw it out. I do better with diagrams than words alone, as I am a very much visual learner and not super great with pure text. Thanks for all the feedback though - it does help.
 
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Jamdoc

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Jeffwhosoever said:
I'll digest all of that and draw it out. I do better with diagrams than words alone, as I am a very much visual learner and not super great with pure text. Thanks for all the feedback though - it does help.
Click to expand...
I wish I was good at making charts and graphs but I'm not
 
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Jeffwhosoever

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Doug is the best but I will attempt to put it into a chart. However until then, I finally had enough sense to check the SOP for this group and found a pretty good explanation of these views of Futurism. now I feel really stupid, but lucky I finally found it. Even a blind squirrel find an acorn once in a while!

  • Futurism: Futurism is the eschatological viewpoint that interprets portions of the Book of Revelation, the Book of Daniel, and other prophecies, as future events in a literal, physical, apocalyptic, and global context.
    • Pre-tribulation: The pre-tribulation position advocates that the rapture will occur before the beginning of the seven-year tribulation period, while the second coming will occur at the end of the seven-year tribulation period. Pre-tribulationists often describe the rapture as Jesus coming for the church and the second coming as Jesus coming with the church.
    • Mid-tribulation: The mid-tribulation position espouses that the rapture will occur at some point in the middle of the tribulation period, or during Daniel's 70th week. The tribulation is typically divided into two periods of 3.5 years each. Mid-tribulationists hold that the saints will go through the first period (Beginning of Travail, which is not "the tribulation"), but will be raptured into Heaven before the severe outpouring of God's wrath in the second half of the tribulation.
    • Post-tribulation: The post-tribulation position places the rapture at the end of the tribulation period. Post-tribulation writers define the tribulation period in a generic sense as the entire present age, or in a specific sense of a period of time preceding the second coming of Christ. The emphasis in this view is that the church will undergo the tribulation even though the church will be spared the wrath of God.
    • Pre-wrath Tribulation: The pre-wrath tribulation position states that Christians will be raptured sometime during the tribulation that occurs in the second half of the 70th week of Daniel, and before the day of the Lord's wrath. The pre-wrath position emphasizes the biblical distinction between tribulation (which Christians have been promised) and the wrath of God (which Christians have been promised deliverance/salvation from).
 
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Douggg

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Jeffwhosoever said:
Doug do you have a graph comparing pre-trib, mid-trib, pre-wrath and post-trib all from a Futurist POV?
Click to expand...
no, I do not. This thread is really not intended for that sort of discussion. The other thread I made, which you have been participated in is better suited - which it seems you are posting some charts over there as are you trying to put some clarity on the rapture views.
 
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d taylor

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Douggg

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Timtofly

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I am surprised all who claim a pre-trib rapture, do not claim that as the Second Coming.

But most refuse to see Jesus on earth doing the final harvest during the Trumpets and Thunders. That was not clear to me until putting all the kingdom parables into this tribulation scenario, and removing them from applying to the church.

Armageddon only happens if the week of the sounding (voice) of the 7th Trumpet is split.

Both Daniel and John "prophecy" the split, but it is conditional based on the confirmation of the Atonement. Satan does not need 42 months. God does not need to give Satan 42 months. The only need for 42 months is if too many souls are left after the final harvest, the confirmation comes up with too many souls unconfirmed. What if there are only 2 wise virgins and 8 foolish virgins? Or only foolish virgins? The best scenario would be 10 wise virgins.
 
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iamlamad

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The biggest (and first) error of prewrath is imagining that the cosmic signs at the 6th seal are the very same cosmic signs "after the tribulation of those days." The truth is, these are TWO different signs, for TWO different purposes and will be seen over 7 years apart.

First the sign for the coming Day of the Lord will be seen: two total eclipses (Sun and moon) after a great earthquake. This sign is in Revelation chapter 6 and is before the start of the 70th week (the 7th seal) in chapter 8.

How would anyone know of the moon was appearing red? They would have to SEE it. How would anyone know the sun appeared black as sackcloth? Again, they would have to SEE it.

Next, over 7 years later, after the tribulation of those days, another sign will be seen in the sun and moon: this time TOTAL DARKNESS! The sun will not be seen. The moon will not be seen. Not even the stars will be seen. This is the sign of Jesus coming to Armageddon. He will suddenly appear as lightning flashing in a dark sky. Behind the English word Darkened, is a Greek word and the definition for planets is the complete absence of light. At the 5th vial or bowl, total darkness comes. I believe it stays dark until after Christ comes to Armageddon.
Jamdoc said:
the Great Tribulation takes place AFTER the abomination of desolation,
Click to expand...

Just where in Revelation is this abomination that will divide the week? We find 5 separate countdowns from the midpoint to the end of the week, in chapters 11, 12, and 13, showing us they are midpoint chapters. Therefore the days of GT must come AFTER these chapters.

What will CAUSE those days of GT? It will be the enforcing of the image and the mark, and these are written in chapter 13.

WHO will cause those days of GT? It will be the Beast and False Prophet who again show up in chapter 13.

Then we notice that God sends a warning about the mark of the Beast in chapter 14, so we know that the days of GT have not yet started in when God sends angels to warn people not to accept the mark.

Finally, we see that the days of GT BEGIN late in chapter 14 or between 14 & 15, for the beheaded saints begin to show up in Revelation in chapter 15. Then God will pour out the vials of His wrath to shorten those days of GT in chapter 16. All this proves that the days of GT are found in chapters 15 & 16 in Revelation. Is there more proof? Yes.

IF we just believe John, Jesus took the book and began opening the seals as soon as He ascended and sent the Holy Spirit down. The first seals then are EARLY church time, from 32 AD onward. Seal one is the CHURCH sent out.
Seals 2 through 4 are to represent the devil's attempts to stop the church.
Seal 5 is for the martyrs of the church age. They are told that judgment will not start until the FINAL church age martyr is killed.

The rapture will then take place, which will be the trigger for the start of the Day of the Lord, at the 6th seal. A few days later, the 7th seal will be opened so that the BOOK can be opened, which will reveal the trumpet judgments.

Therefore, if you imagine Revelation is NOT Chronological, you may want to rethink that. It is in perfect order - the very order these things will take place, with the exception of parentheses.
 
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Abraxos

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Futurist seems like an oversimplification.



Put me down as 'Kingdom-minded.'
 
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Bob_1000

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Not sure if I fit some of these categories or not but here are my beliefs.
I believe in the millennium but I believe it is the life time of a believer. while here on earth.
I don't believe in any rapture.
I don't know what covenant theology is even after Googling it.
I'm not dispensationalist nor futurist, nor Historist, nor partial preterist.
 
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Dave L

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Jesus taught Amillennialism. If you read the gospels carefully he refutes pre-millennialism. And Peter preached Amillennialism with Christ's death, burial, and resurrection added to it. Likewise, the rest preaching under the New Covenant scriptures.
 
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Douggg

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okay, Bob. I won't put you under any of the categories. Thanks for sharing.

I have one category as "no rapture (traditional)". Would you like for me to list your screen name under that one?

btw, you can browse through the list in the first post - and kinda see where a lot of the other posters here stand. It is often helpful in discussions.

Personally, I put some of the information about myself under my screen-name avatar, to inform others who I might be discussing with or reading my posts.
 
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Bob_1000

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Yes I think I fit the no rapture for sure.
 
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Jamdoc

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Sunshinee777 said:
I believe in mid-tribulation.
Click to expand...

Like actual midpoint of the 70th week?
could you explain why and what scriptures you use? I've just never heard of someone who was actual midpoint rapture before and am curious how they come to that position.
 
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Sunshinee777

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Jamdoc said:
Like actual midpoint of the 70th week?
could you explain why and what scriptures you use? I've just never heard of someone who was actual midpoint rapture before and am curious how they come to that position.
Click to expand...

Yes I believe mid. Nobody knows the day or week or month. By reading bible and listening God. I don’t base my beliefs on other peoples sayings.
 
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