Where do you draw the line?

[Oblivious]

For example, I love Depeche Mode (I can identify w/ the pain they portray in their songs, as well as their poeticness). However, I will not buy their material b/c many of their albums have at least one blasphemous song on them.

Examples please

I listen to basically whatever is pleasing to my ear. What personally bothers me the most is offense language in songs (hard core rap music, for an example). I don't listen to any music like this. Again, it's just a personal preference. I mostly listen to techno, and there's usually little if any lyrics associated with it anyway.

 

[secretdawn]

I only listen to very family oriented secular music...most rock music is anti God...look at the artists, what are thier lifestyles? what are the songs saying (usually self is bein glorfied and fleshly things)...When Christ saved me my music tastses changed as well...as I am a new creature old things have past away..Canno't serve two masters!
Peace!

...some music is anti-god yes, but i wouldn't brush it aside as quickly as you seem to...(know your enemy type thing) ...perfect circle for one...but if you really listen to that too (and you should just to know what is out there) you can hear how lost the singer is to sing those lyrics...for example from a the lyrics to Judith:


the absolute hatred in these lyrics is scary...i mean that isn't hatred really...you know that is pain...atheists usually don't care one way or another about the actually spriritual aspect, they just want to disprove the existance, or prove the non-exsitance as it were, of God, this man believes that there is a God and believes He hates us and him and wants to hurt him...(coincidentally this used to be my favorite song)...i wonder what happened to him and why he is the way he is...and this was a big selling record...one i happen to own (though i don't listen to anymore), and millions of people are relating to this song...so you listen closely to the lyrics, his voice, and the music, and you realize WOW...these people NEED christ in there life, and it sort of pushes you to do more...and helps you understand them more (which is important if you want to witness imo)...i think (if your faith can stand it) knowing all the music out there that is ANTI-god is important...and this stuff is on your kids radio stations, cds, their friends listen to it...it is everywhere...better to know about it, and talk about it then to pretend it doesn't exist...cause i gurantee it will burn you more in the end to NOT listen, then you will by listening...you don't have to enjoy it, but understand it instead.

ok i just had to say that...sorry

 

[Oblivious]

Oops - Why can't you delete posts :o

 

[secretdawn]

ok didn't notice someone already put those lyrics up there...but just refer to Wooderson's post if you want to know what it says.

 

[Shangrila]

I might not be Christian but I believe strongly in God so my view might differ from the many.

I listen to music with lots of cursing and whatever. I never raelly pay attention to the "lyrics" per-say. Moreso the message behind it. Like in a Zug Izland song that everyone seems to bash against "Suicide".

"Before you go and commit, a HOMICIDE,
Do us all a favor,
You should try SUICIDE!
If you gonna commit, a HOMICIDE,
Spare us all the drama, YOU SHOULD TRY SUICIDE!"

Lots of people would be against this claiming it promotes suicide.
What do you guys think?

 

[yod]

Neither suicide nor homicide will quench the anger of the songwriter.

We, the household of faith, conceal the hope that they are looking for. We should be influencing them but it's the other way around far too often.

"all things are permissable but not all things edify"


You can eat paint if you want, you can drink gasoline, you can ingest Marylyn Manson along with them.....

It's "permissable" but it leads to the city dump.

 

[Dark_Lite]

I have an ecclectic music collection. I'd draw the line at anything that would just be outright blasphemous... I enjoy finding underlying messages in songs. Of course.. nothing I've found so far is outright blasphemous to me so.... meh.

 

[Rosa Mystica]

Oblivious, you wanted examples? Okay, then. "Personal Jesus" and "Blasphemous Rumours" (both Depeche Mode) are the ones that stand out most. The lyrics to this latter song:

I don't want to start any blasphemous rumours,
But I think that God's got a sick sense of humour
And When I die
I expect to find Him laughing.

The song is about having bitterness towards God after the loss of a loved one. To me, it's pretty blasphemous.

 

[Oblivious]

Oblivious, you wanted examples? Okay, then. "Personal Jesus" and "Blasphemous Rumours" (both Depeche Mode) are the ones that stand out most. The lyrics to this latter song:

I don't want to start any blasphemous rumours,
But I think that God's got a sick sense of humour
And When I die
I expect to find Him laughing.

The song is about having bitterness towards God after the loss of a loved one. To me, it's pretty blasphemous.

Here's all the lyrics so you'll better understand:

Girl of 16
Whole life ahead of her
Slashed her wrists
Bored with life
Didn't succeed
Thank the lord
For small mercies

Fighting back the tears
Mother reads the note again
16 candles burn in her mind
She takes the blame
It's always the same
She goes down on her knees
And prays

I don't want to start
Any blasphemous rumours
But I think that God's
Got a sick sense of humour
And when I die
I expect to find Him laughing

Girl of 18
Fell in love with everything
Found new life
In Jesus Christ
Hit by a car
Ended up
On a life support machine

Summer's day
As she passed away
Birds were singing
In the summer sky
Then came the rain
And once again
A tear fell
From her mother's eye


The song is about 2 girls - 1 commits suicide the other is a Christian and is critically injured in a car accident. They are angry at God for both of these tragedies therefore are blaming him. I know when my father was taken from me that I too was mad at God. I think most of us have been from time to time. I don't see the blasphemy in this song at all.

Personal Jesus is basically about being a personal Jesus to others. Isn't this what we're supposed to as Christians? If a Christian artist had written this song there would no complaints about it from the Christian community or whomever.

Basically it's all in the way you interpret the lyrics

 

[Rosa Mystica]

Here's all the lyrics so you'll better understand:

Girl of 16
Whole life ahead of her
Slashed her wrists
Bored with life
Didn't succeed
Thank the lord
For small mercies

Fighting back the tears
Mother reads the note again
16 candles burn in her mind
She takes the blame
It's always the same
She goes down on her knees
And prays

I don't want to start
Any blasphemous rumours
But I think that God's
Got a sick sense of humour
And when I die
I expect to find Him laughing

Girl of 18
Fell in love with everything
Found new life
In Jesus Christ
Hit by a car
Ended up
On a life support machine

Summer's day
As she passed away
Birds were singing
In the summer sky
Then came the rain
And once again
A tear fell
From her mother's eye


The song is about 2 girls - 1 commits suicide the other is a Christian and is critically injured in a car accident. They are angry at God for both of these tragedies therefore are blaming him. I know when my father was taken from me that I too was mad at God. I think most of us have been from time to time. I don't see the blasphemy in this song at all.

Personal Jesus is basically about being a personal Jesus to others. Isn't this what we're supposed to as Christians? If a Christian artist had written this song there would no complaints about it from the Christian community or whomever.

Basically it's all in the way you interpret the lyrics

Oblivious,

Here are a few more things worth mentioning:

1) There is a great world of difference b/w being angry at God and blaspheming Him. To say that God is "sick" is blasphemy. Now, if Martin Gore had expressed his anger towards God using different words, I might be a little more forgiving...

2) Re: Personal Jesus: I've always seen this as a song which promotes the idea of viewing other human beings as a substitute for God. If you don't see it that way, well, that's your interpretation. This is mine. DM isn't always very specific when it comes to lyrics.

 

[Oblivious]

There is a great world of difference b/w being angry at God and blaspheming Him. To say that God is "sick" is blasphemy. Now, if Martin Gore had expressed his anger towards God using different words, I might be a little more forgiving...

I don't consider being angry and using the term "sick sense of humor" in the song as being blasphemy, considering what the song is about. Interpreting that as God being sick is a stretch. Example: that would be like me telling you that you have a stupid sense of humor, meaning, you're not stupid as a person, but your sense of humor sure is.

Re: Personal Jesus: I've always seen this as a song which promotes the idea of viewing other human beings as a substitute for God. If you don't see it that way, well, that's your interpretation. This is mine.

Again, back to my original points in the last post.

Rosa, I respect your opinion and I hope you can see where I'm coming from with mine I'm a big DM fan so I have to defend my band

 

[Mistyfogg]

I think I would have to agree with you on that one oblivious.

 

[minus]

Obviously Johnny Cash who was a Christian when he died was able to interpret "Personal Jesus" from a religious perspective when he did his own version of the song.

 

[curlyhairboi]

i have recently started editing my music on my computer, if there's stuff in there that i don't agree with.

 

[minus]

I'm sorry, but I think you guys are WAY off base on this one. I listen to all kinds of music, older metal one of my favorites (AC/DC, Scorpions, etc) along with newer rock (Staind, Linkin Park, Blink 182). Granted, some Christian bands are obviously playing off the current secular trends. But then again, most secular bands are also playing off current secular trends. If everything you listen to has to be COMPLETELY original, then you're leaving out a lot of great bands.

If the first thing you listen to is the Christian band, then the secular band would sound like a ripoff of them. I've been more than happy with the Christian bands that I've found suiting my musical tastes. I'm not really into the punk genre so I can't help minus. I think it's unfortunate for you that you are a musician (bear with me), because it sounds to me like you're busy analyzing the music rather than enjoying it.

Everytime someone says there is no "good" Christian music, I get the feeling that they just don't want to listen to it, because your afraid your non-Christian friends might think less of you.

I do tend to analyze music while I’m listening to it, that’s just something I do, but I also just enjoy listening to music. What fun would it be to just sit there and analyze music without taking any enjoyment in listening to it?

Sure I might be a bit of a music snob, just ask my fiancee, LOL! I don’t like most of the stuff that they play on MTV or on mainstream radio. However, I still do enjoy a wide variety of music from all over the spectrum like Frank Sinatra, Bjork, Aphex Twin, Dillinger Escape Plan, Beastie Boys, Skinny Puppy, Bob Marley, The Pixies, Crass, and Mozart to name a few. My problem with Christian music is just that I haven’t been able to find anything that causes me to drop my jaw and say “Wow, this stuff is amazing!”.

It has nothing to do with me worrying about what my non-Christian friends will think of me if I listen to a Christian band. Anyone with such an eclectic taste in music obviously doesn’t really care about fitting any certain mold or fitting into any corny little clique.

I would love to find some cool, talented Christian bands out there that are breaking boundaries and forging new paths in music.

 

[brettnolan]

It has nothing to do with me worrying about what my non-Christian friends will think of me

Didn't mean to call YOU out on this specifically.

I haven’t been able to find anything that causes me to drop my jaw and say “Wow, this stuff is amazing!”.

I have found that on specific songs, though probably not in the same way that you would, but I can't think of any artist whose overall sound is strikingly original. Lyrical content is a biggie for me. Then I need the music to really drive the message of the lyrics home...that's what makes a song great to me. I couldn't really care less if the overall sound, or music structure isn't completely original.

 

[minus]

Didn't mean to call YOU out on this specifically.

I have found that on specific songs, though probably not in the same way that you would, but I can't think of any artist whose overall sound is strikingly original. Lyrical content is a biggie for me. Then I need the music to really drive the message of the lyrics home...that's what makes a song great to me. I couldn't really care less if the overall sound, or music structure isn't completely original.

It’s alright, I didn't take it that you did call me out specifically out it, just wanted to be clear that’s all.

See for me I’m more the opposite I could really care less about lyrics most of the time. For example have you ever heard a Bjork song? Most of her lyrics are just plain weird. There are exceptions to this though. As an anti-war progressive/liberal I can identify with a lot of the lyrics of bands like Rage Against the Machine. So it would be nice if I could find some cool Christian bands with lyrics I could identify with.

I typed in some of the band names that you listed in the thread you started “What’s wrong with Christian music?” http://www.christianforums.com/t88379&page=1 into Grassrootsmusic.com and found that even if these were secular bands I still wouldn’t be a fan. I really am hoping that I can find some Christian music that I can get into, I think it would be nice to find music that I can relate to in that way.

 

[secretdawn]

I do tend to analyze music while I’m listening to it, that’s just something I do, but I also just enjoy listening to music. What fun would it be to just sit there and analyze music without taking any enjoyment in listening to it?

Sure I might be a bit of a music snob, just ask my fiancee, LOL! I don’t like most of the stuff that they play on MTV or on mainstream radio. However, I still do enjoy a wide variety of music from all over the spectrum like Frank Sinatra, Bjork, Aphex Twin, Dillinger Escape Plan, Beastie Boys, Skinny Puppy, Bob Marley, The Pixies, Crass, and Mozart to name a few. My problem with Christian music is just that I haven’t been able to find anything that causes me to drop my jaw and say “Wow, this stuff is amazing!”.

It has nothing to do with me worrying about what my non-Christian friends will think of me if I listen to a Christian band. Anyone with such an eclectic taste in music obviously doesn’t really care about fitting any certain mold or fitting into any corny little clique.

I would love to find some cool, talented Christian bands out there that are breaking boundaries and forging new paths in music.

since when is it all about the sound...i think christian music is about the story or message in the song...so many people spend too much time judging music based off sound, and miss out on a great voice telling a great story or message...the lyrics are always shoved to the back...(and i also notice the bands who are considered dynamic or original musically, have less strength lyrically (not all of them though))...maybe if you concentrate on what they are saying that would make you go WOW.

 

[minus]

since when is it all about the sound...i think christian music is about the story or message in the song...so many people spend too much time judging music based off sound, and miss out on a great voice telling a great story or message...the lyrics are always shoved to the back...(and i also notice the bands who are considered dynamic or original musically, have less strength lyrically (not all of them though))...maybe if you concentrate on what they are saying that would make you go WOW.

I’m a musician. The music is important to me. If the tunes not good I can’t get into it, no matter how dynamic the message may be.

The way I view it is music is about the music, poetry is about the lyrics.

When it comes to lyrics in music it's sometimes hard to understand all the words the singer is singing anyways and it's very easy to misinterpret what the lyrics are. I saw a show on MTV a few years back that was all about how people were confusing one thing a singer was singing for something else.

 

[brettnolan]

I actually have heard a little Bjork, and you're right the lyrics don't make a lot of sense most of the time, so I never really got into her.

You are in a much more difficult position it seems, to be able to find Christian music to your tastes. Maybe YOU can change the Christian music landscape.

I do still think you're an exception to the rule.