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Where do we draw the line?

GillDouglas

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Something I've been struggling with lately is how I should be spending my time. My wife and I, our children, we attend regular Sunday worship and Wednesday evening small group. I often spend my time in the morning reading random scripture, and praying/praising God. Then there's time spent here ministering, defending my faith, talking about God. All of these I would hope are in some way glorifying to God.

But I'm not doing these things all the time, and I'm not focused on God 100% of my time. I enjoy reading books, playing video games, listening to music, riding my bike, going on camping trips. Are these also, glorifying to God, or are these self-serving? Is anything I've listed above just self-serving?

I fear two things: Being too lax in my devotion to God and backsliding, the other is being too strict and creating a stumbling block between myself and God. Where do I draw the line? This also goes for my family whom I am the spiritual head of. Any advice?
 

Messy

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When revival breaks out you don't even have time to eat, but I'd watch out with doing all those things because you have to. I once got a Word from God that I needed something to enjoy, nature or something. He said: Don't let the service to God be something that you have to do. I remember watching my clock and praying 2,5 hours a day to pay my tithes of time. That's just a self made thing. He had the Sabbath. We entered His rest now. If He tells you to pray and this time not play a video game do it, but don't just skip everything. You can also abide in Him while going on a holiday or biking. When I got saved I went to such a legalistic church. You had to come twice a sunday but I liked to bike so I only went in the morning and then went cycling. Well the next sunday I got a thunder preaching. Later in another church I just wanted to sometimes go in the evening too. Relax.
 
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GillDouglas

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It's difficult at times for us, for some reason, even knowing what we know to not to become overly religious. I know there's no reason for it, the debts been paid and there is nothing more I can add to it. It's my spiritual growth I worry about most, I suppose. When I first came to know Christ I had such a zeal, a strong desire to know Him and I soaked up the knowledge He gave me quickly. In a year I had read the Bible entirely, understanding a good portion of it. It was like I was making up for 30 years of being in the dark. I seem to have 'cooled' a bit since that first year and I long for that fire again.

As you said, I should relax. He will challenge me and growth will come. Thanks Messy.
 
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paul1149

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I think that's a deeply personal question that goes to the motivations of the heart. I struggle with it myself, and Scripture itself alludes to the problem, eg Romans 12.2; 1Thess 2.4, 5.21.

I agree with Messy that abiding in His rest (Mt 11.27-30, john 15, Heb 4) is paramount. It is so easy to go off into law and works. But at the same time we don't want to be lax.

Messy, nice seeing Jack Frost again. Thanks.
 
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I don't think deciding whether or not to spend time with God always needs to produce a binary outcome, i.e. all or nothing. And I don't think it necessarily has to yield some physically-measurable (on a time scale) result.

For me personally, a focus on God can happen during many of the nominally-secular things I do. Music? It's mostly all Christian now, and that just sort of snuck up on me. So, rehearsing typically turns into praise & worship for an audience of One. Hopping on the Harley usually turns into praise and worship, too, with so much nature blasting me in my face on the back roads. Yard work, same deal -- I'm in the middle of God's creation. Thinking about weeds and thorns and stinging insects takes me back to the story of the fall, while looking at all the different bugs and snakes and birds and spiders is a constant reminder of how infinite God is as a designer. Even something like sticking a Stouffers into the microwave can get me thinking about how insanely complex God created mankind to be, and all his capabilities: a power-generating station running off some dangerous, glowing metal rods, run through an endless maze of wires and transformers, toward my little house over more wires tacked onto skinny sticks jammed into the ground by special heavy equipment designed to do only that, making a meal for me that's steaming hot and comes out of an oven that barely gets warm... On and on.

I really don't know what point I'm driving at. But I do think it's safe to say that God values heart-based fellowship and always being on our minds far more than He values X number of hours per week of Bible study or Y hours per week of on-our-knees prayer time if the fellowship's missing. That's what Jesus died for -- to get us back to the closeness Adam & Eve had with the Father throughout each and every day of their lives before they blew it in Gn 3, amen?
 
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ValleyGal

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The Bible talks about how we should love each other as Jesus loves us, and how we should care about others as we care about ourselves. Part of loving ourselves is "self-care" which involves doing things we enjoy and being with people we enjoy. There is nothing wrong with playing video games and doing things you enjoy. The problem is when we replace God with the things we enjoy, or when our enjoyment has a negative impact on us. In the book of Ecclesiastes we find that we should not take our lives so seriously, that we should enjoy our lives. Jesus said that we should live "abundant" lives - and I do not believe he intended monetarily; I believe he meant to go out and live and experience our lives, being rich in relationships, in love, in the community, in our experiences. We have one life and we need to make the most of it with what we have.

Imo, going out and doing things that enrich your life like camping, bike riding, listening to music, etc are all things that glorify God simply because you are taking care of your body, you are enjoying his creation, you are honoring the artistic part of how he created you. You can invite him into all those things as well.

As for your Christian zeal mellowing out, that's okay. That's what happens in relationships. If the marriage relationship is akin to Jesus' relationship with his church, look at how love grew, changed and matured in your own marriage - when you were dating, there was likely a lengthy rush of excited zeal, but that likely tapered off after a while into a more mellow, confident and mature love. It's the same way with a relationship with Jesus - excited zeal, which mellows. That is not to say you love him any less; quite the contrary, your relationship with God is now driven more by your mind than your emotions, and that is a good thing. It is mature love to have a combination of both that is growing.
 
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com7fy8

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That's what Jesus died for -- to get us back to the closeness Adam & Eve had with the Father throughout each and every day of their lives before they blew it in Gn 3, amen?
Bass, I think that Jesus brings us to better than how Adam and Eve were; if we went "back" to how they were, we might just do the same thing. We need the character of Jesus which makes us obedient.

And, Gill, this is a point > your character has a lot to do with what you do, what you enjoy, now. Yes, God "gives us richly all things to enjoy." (in 1 Timothy 6:17) But I see how ones can be "worried" about if God will approve of them enjoying some thing, like they might feel deprived and making a big sacrifice if He did not "like" something they do. I find, more and more, how if I am with God and loving, there are things now that I can take it or leave it, because God's love is so more and I don't need to be worrying about if I can do something or have something or not.

"be content with such things as you have" (in Hebrews 13:5)

If I can't be content with something or without it, this can mean I am somehow under the power of it (1 Corinthians 6:12, 2 Corinthians 6:12). This would not mean I need to stop or give it up, but that I get more mature in God's love with unconditional contentment, then discover how He satisfies and guides me, in Jesus Christ's "rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:28-30)

And we have what Bass says about power lines passing along poles >
wires tacked onto skinny sticks jammed into the ground by special heavy equipment designed to do only that
In Jesus, each of us is not alone, but we are like telephone and electrical poles, who are connected with each other. What we do in prayer is not by ourselves; what comes to you comes on to me. And because we more and more take an interest in other people, love has us satisfied to share in other people's things and interests, in order to be with them and minister to them . . . like I think Paul means >

"For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more; and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law; to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ), that I might win those who are without law; to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some." (1 Corinthians 9:19-22)

For one example, may be I could care less about telephone poles, but in order to share with Bass, I might take an interest in phone poles so I can use something Bass understands in order to share about God's kingdom.

Possibly, Jesus was doing this when He used the vine as an illustration of how we are connected with Him (John 15). He might have been walking past a vineyard and He knew guys might be drooling for the vineyard wine they could be drinking; so Jesus talked about a vine, but in order to bring their attention to where we belong :)

So, as we grow in love's character, we will discover how our interests develop and how we use them. Especially, we need to become more about how we are all connected with each other, and not get isolated with our own interests . . . or our own praying and study > especially not to get into a set way, because while we might do some exact same thing, over and over, with God it can be unique how we do it, and creative.
 
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If Satan hadn't interfered with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, knowing that they had to remain obedient by not touching the Tree of Knowledge or even the Tree of Life, then I believe Jehovah's purpose for them later on could have been a rewarding free tour or walkthrough inside the massive construction-safe, most advanced kingdom of God that is beyond what we consider 21st century modern luxury and architectural design:.
That's why the material comforts and convenience we take for granted, such as that modern townhouse, modern car, modern videogame console or led TV, are light years out-of-date compared to the light-years advanced modernization of the kingdom of God with all the material comforts and luxury for our eternal health and safety, and of course, Christ's Second Coming future victory return is no short school camping trip if Satan's ultimate goal is to transform Earth into a Global Carnal Hell - which, unfortunately he won't reach it, simply because Jehovah's super-intelligent mind on 'eternity' -
a word that describes the beginning and endless end of time - is much more than intelligence when it comes to prophecy or seeing future events not only human, but also Satan's dirty deception intentions on mankind, and most probably even knew his deception stupidity with poor Adam and Eve before he was ever born, when you wonder why it wasn't necessary to place security surveillance cameras in the Garden of Eden, or even inside the kingdom of God for suspicious activity.;'*';.
 
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NJA

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Something I've been struggling with lately is how I should be spending my time. ... Any advice?

Jesus drew a line ...

"the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth" (John 4:23)

To begin to do that you need to receive the Spirit, as detailed in Scripture: Acts 2:4, 33, 39; 10:44-46, John 3:8.

Then learn to "walk in the Spirit" ... this will result in God's nature being seen in you, whether you are playing, working or formally worshipping.

To seek to glorify God without this is in fact to waste your time.

So, have you crossed this line?
 
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GillDouglas

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Jesus drew a line ...

"the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth" (John 4:23)

To begin to do that you need to receive the Spirit, as detailed in Scripture: Acts 2:4, 33, 39; 10:44-46, John 3:8.

Then learn to "walk in the Spirit" ... this will result in God's nature being seen in you, whether you are playing, working or formally worshipping.

To seek to glorify God without this is in fact to waste your time.

So, have you crossed this line?
Well yeah, I think I have. Why else would I be concerned with spending God-centered time if not encouraged by the Spirit? Sanctification is a life long process my friend.
 
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KimT

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The turning point for me was my involvement with strong Christians for fellowship. Christians can have fun!!!!!! Our joy is a witness to the world! I started a women's Christian fellowship at my home on Saturday evenings. We play Bible trivia, watch Joyce Meyer DVDs, have a nice meal (there are usually anywhere from 7 - 12 ladies), watch Christian comedians, have a devotion and prayer, and just love each other. As long as your passions do not become your god, I think you're ok. The reason I say this is that I've seen people get more excited about a football team than being saved. They decorate their cars and homes with team-related things and you never see a Bible. They are absent from church when they are at a game, etc. Anything can be your god. As long as you put God first and love others, I believe you're free to enjoy the blessings he gives.
 
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NJA

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Well yeah, I think I have. Why else would I be concerned with spending God-centered time if not encouraged by the Spirit?
You have a zeal for God, Paul said the same of the Jews (Romans 10:2), I have Jehovah's Witnesses knocking on my door using the same argument of themselves ... have you ever noticed that in Acts, which details people receiving God's Spirit it was known *precisely when* it happened?

Not because the recipients showed zeal but because God bare independent witness with his sign of speaking in tongues.
(an unlearned prayer language, speaking to God not men)

Sanctification is a life long process my friend.
Again, not according to the bible. Sanctification means set apart, made "holy".
This happens instantaneously when a person becomes "in Christ" by receiving his Spirit as detailed in Scripture.

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus" (1 Cor. 1:2)

"Jude, ... to them that are sanctified" (Jude 1:1)
 
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graceandpeace

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Something I've been struggling with lately is how I should be spending my time. My wife and I, our children, we attend regular Sunday worship and Wednesday evening small group. I often spend my time in the morning reading random scripture, and praying/praising God. Then there's time spent here ministering, defending my faith, talking about God. All of these I would hope are in some way glorifying to God.

But I'm not doing these things all the time, and I'm not focused on God 100% of my time. I enjoy reading books, playing video games, listening to music, riding my bike, going on camping trips. Are these also, glorifying to God, or are these self-serving? Is anything I've listed above just self-serving?

I fear two things: Being too lax in my devotion to God and backsliding, the other is being too strict and creating a stumbling block between myself and God. Where do I draw the line? This also goes for my family whom I am the spiritual head of. Any advice?

I would not worry. If you believe, then you believe. If you feel like you need to spend more time on something else, then do it. Extend yourself the same forgiveness & grace you would (hopefully) extend to others.

I would also not pressure a spiritual leadership role upon yourself. You can model & teach your faith without this. Pushing too hard with your family could breed rebellion or resentment down the road.

Good luck.
 
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Goodbook

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Some advice...
You say you fear...are you in a legalistic church? That makes you feel guilty you not doing more stuff for them??? Like being religious vs being a disciple? Perfect love casts out fear..for fear has torment.

I think to know Gods perfect love you need to be still and know He is God. That he sees everything you do outside of church as well.
Everything you do, God sees anyway. Psalm 139

See, Jesus did things aside from preaching. He listened to music. He went fishing. Im sure he probably read some books other than the bible. He probably enjoyed riding donkeys, and playing games with children..joy in these simple things does not mean they are self serving.

If you make them idols, then maybe...
 
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Saricharity

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Something I've been struggling with lately is how I should be spending my time. My wife and I, our children, we attend regular Sunday worship and Wednesday evening small group. I often spend my time in the morning reading random scripture, and praying/praising God. Then there's time spent here ministering, defending my faith, talking about God. All of these I would hope are in some way glorifying to God.

But I'm not doing these things all the time, and I'm not focused on God 100% of my time. I enjoy reading books, playing video games, listening to music, riding my bike, going on camping trips. Are these also, glorifying to God, or are these self-serving? Is anything I've listed above just self-serving?

I fear two things: Being too lax in my devotion to God and backsliding, the other is being too strict and creating a stumbling block between myself and God. Where do I draw the line? This also goes for my family whom I am the spiritual head of. Any advice?

Have you heard of Familyman Ministries?
http://familymanweb.com

Check it out and let me know what you think. :)


I'm not sure how the Presbyterian church works or what it's beliefs are but at my church, my dad (also the senior pastor) tries to mentor young men. Do you attend a bible study for men at your church?

God created us for his pleasure and for His Glory. It is not self serving to take care of yourself and have joy in His creation.
 
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Emmy

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Dear GillDougles. In Matthew 22: 35-40: Jesus gave wonderful advice: " The first and great Commandment is:
Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." In verse 40, we are told this great truth:
" On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." God is Love, and God wants loving sons and
daughters. Everything we say or do, everything we advice or stand for, should be from Love and Compassion.
In Matthew 7: 7-10: we are told: " ask and you shall receive," we ask God for Love and Joy, then we thank God and share all love and joy with our neighbour: all we know and all we meet, friends and not friends." A Christian`s weapon is Love and Joy, and Love is very catching." We will find that gradually we are changing into the men and women which God wants us to be, God will see our Love and Joy, and God will approve and bless us.
The Bible tells us to " Repent and to be Born Again," we give up all selfish wishes and wants, and change into loving and caring sons and daughters. We will find that people around us, will treat us the same as we treat people, life will be filled with Joy and friendliness. The Holy Spirit will guide us and Jesus our Saviour will lead us all the way:
JESUS IS THE WAY. Love God with all our beings and treat others as we would love to be treated. That is straightforward and God will keep blessing us. I say this with love, GillDougles. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.
 
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GillDouglas

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Have you heard of Familyman Ministries?
http://familymanweb.com

Check it out and let me know what you think. :)


I'm not sure how the Presbyterian church works or what it's beliefs are but at my church, my dad (also the senior pastor) tries to mentor young men. Do you attend a bible study for men at your church?

God created us for his pleasure and for His Glory. It is not self serving to take care of yourself and have joy in His creation.
Jennae, thank you for the resource site. There seems to be a lot of good information there from a family man's ministry. There is a mens bible study Wednesday mornings, but it starts right when I'm suppose to be at work. I was attending one at my last church in Texas, and it was very beneficial. I pray another might come about here that I am able to attend.

If you're curious about the Presbyterian church, I'd be happy to explain. All denominations have their quirks and differences, we're no exception.
 
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GillDouglas

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Sorry I spelled your name wrong, dear GillDouglas.
That's ok Emmy, it's just my name backwards. Being in the military we always go by our last name, and my name happens to make a decent username. Please call me Doug. :p
 
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Hospes

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Something I've been struggling with lately is how I should be spending my time. My wife and I, our children, we attend regular Sunday worship and Wednesday evening small group. I often spend my time in the morning reading random scripture, and praying/praising God. Then there's time spent here ministering, defending my faith, talking about God. All of these I would hope are in some way glorifying to God.

But I'm not doing these things all the time, and I'm not focused on God 100% of my time. I enjoy reading books, playing video games, listening to music, riding my bike, going on camping trips. Are these also, glorifying to God, or are these self-serving? Is anything I've listed above just self-serving?

I fear two things: Being too lax in my devotion to God and backsliding, the other is being too strict and creating a stumbling block between myself and God. Where do I draw the line? This also goes for my family whom I am the spiritual head of. Any advice?
C.S. Lewis wrote of having the pleasure of feeling the sunlight on your face while following it back to its source. There are a lot of graces - undeserved goodnesses - God grants me: backpacking, hunting, a glass of port, a porch swing, seeing a shooting star, intimacy with my wife, the friendship of my sons, etc. As a Christian, I am growing in the discipline of enjoying the sunshine of such graces while following them back to the Source and finding joy in thanking Him "to the praise of his glorious grace."

So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. (1 Cor. 10:31)
 
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