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Where did this prominent view come from?

Harley.

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When I became a Christian I was overwhelmed by the amount of different contradictory theologies, and for this purpose have remained nondenominational. I can't seem to find a single denomination that agrees with everything I see in the bible.
Anyhow, my intent here is not to start a fight, my intent is to understand where a very prominent false doctrine came from. When I first started getting curious about heaven I was met with the idea that all we do in heaven is sing forever around the throne. Bowing like the 24 elders in revelation. Thats it. This at times made me almost give up because it seemed like such an obvious downgrade from life now, as well as what life was originally intended to be in the garden of Eden. Humans werent made to praise nonstop, we were made to be creators. Anything but what we find in genesis is unappealing to us because its not what we were made for. This took me AGES to finally realize that this very common view is actually false. God himself tells us at the end of revelation "They will reign forever and ever". That is how the almighty signs off eternity. Us reigning. The word used for "reigning" also means to "have dominion". Sound familiar? Exactly.
So where does this idea of an eternal choir come from??? Cause I see it everywhere and its just not what the bible teaches...at all?! It also is illogical. Satan didn't spoil God's plan of a worldwide community of God following humans, creating, exploring, and inventing. We as Christians' always say that "Satan has already lost" but do we really believe it? Why do we then give him so much power as to say he foiled God's original plan, when the bible plainly says he did not.
Anyhow im rambling, ill close this off by saying I have done WAY too much research on this and I really can't find an answer on why this belief has infected our congregations, but it is really a disservice to the truth of the bible!
 

SabbathBlessings

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When I became a Christian I was overwhelmed by the amount of different contradictory theologies, and for this purpose have remained nondenominational. I can't seem to find a single denomination that agrees with everything I see in the bible.
Anyhow, my intent here is not to start a fight, my intent is to understand where a very prominent false doctrine came from. When I first started getting curious about heaven I was met with the idea that all we do in heaven is sing forever around the throne. Bowing like the 24 elders in revelation. Thats it. This at times made me almost give up because it seemed like such an obvious downgrade from life now, as well as what life was originally intended to be in the garden of Eden. Humans werent made to praise nonstop, we were made to be creators. Anything but what we find in genesis is unappealing to us because its not what we were made for. This took me AGES to finally realize that this very common view is actually false. God himself tells us at the end of revelation "They will reign forever and ever". That is how the almighty signs off eternity. Us reigning. The word used for "reigning" also means to "have dominion". Sound familiar? Exactly.
So where does this idea of an eternal choir come from??? Cause I see it everywhere and its just not what the bible teaches...at all?! It also is illogical. Satan didn't spoil God's plan of a worldwide community of God following humans, creating, exploring, and inventing. We as Christians' always say that "Satan has already lost" but do we really believe it? Why do we then give him so much power as to say he foiled God's original plan, when the bible plainly says he did not.
Anyhow im rambling, ill close this off by saying I have done WAY too much research on this and I really can't find an answer on why this belief has infected our congregations, but it is really a disservice to the truth of the bible!
For every Truth of the Bible, satan has made a counterfeit and it has been that way for a long time.

The Bible very clearly shows the saints will be doing things in heaven, I look at it as the Garden of Eden before sin restored…

They shall build houses and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit. They shall not build and another inhabit; they shall not plant and another eat … and My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands” Isaiah 65:21, 22

Of course we will worship the Lord, but it will be a very similar cycle, work 6 days, but the Sabbath Exodus 20:10 the saints gather before the Lord to worship Him in His presence Isaiah 66:22-23 Just like in the Garden before sin entered. Genesis 2:1-3 Mark 2:27
 
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Lost Witness

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It'll be more than Praise but as someone that absolutely loves to worship the LORD and has at times found myself being unable to control the tears running down my face or stifle the froggy sound building in my throat while being overwhelmed by revelation of the goodness of God while worshipping him.
Standing around and praising him for an eternity would be amazing.
Just the small glimpses of his Goodness has been mind blowing.
To be standing in his presence face to face.
Alone would be more magnificent than anything we could ever experience here.
 
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Bobber

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There will always be praise and worship of God but it won't be boring. We need to understand something about Praise and Worship of God. It is not God being selfish. What it is is a giving and receiving of LOVE. We worship God and he imparts HIS joy and love into our spirits. I call it the cycle of life.

Think of the beauty of creation. As a type think of beauty of flowers and the wonderful fragrance they impart to all. It could be said though they are demanding. They demand water and sunlight BUT what they receive they give it all back in beauty and fragrance to the world. Parents say that about their children.....a baby......extremely demanding but you hear the parent say they give it ALL back in such joy to their lives. Those examples are LIFE CYCLES.....everything you give it all comes back. In a similar way it is with God. You give and he imparts but his demand to receive is not a selfish thing any more than the examples I've given.

In regard to what we'll be doing I have a sense I think I know but it has to do with activities that will take place throughout the entire universe. We'll see soon enough but the main thing is don't miss out making heaven your home.
 
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timothyu

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Where does it say we go to Heaven? We are told a new world Kingdom will come down for us out of Heaven. We were not made for Heaven. God didn't create us to praise him, but rather to praise His will. We should have learned in life that putting our will first leads to nothing but trouble as our will is selfish and someone always gets hurt as a result. His will be done as it is in Heaven. We were meant to be extensions of His will, not freelancing on our own. The people of the OT were more concerned about the Tempter that God made to test us than an adversary (a satan) which the people following the NT wish to create to blame rather than having to take responsibility for their own adversarial actions. As a matter of fact most would rather see a Satan defeated than have to be defeated themselves, which of course we must be if we are to turn back to the will of God rather than our own. These are the ones who claim salvation without even repenting.
 
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Ivan Hlavanda

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Sadly church is one of the last places you will find accurate Bible teaching.
If not the church, where God's people assemble, then where?

Depends on the church, and if Jesus' presence is there. Where 2 or 3 gather in His name, there will He be also.

How do we know if Jesus is in church? His light will shine and the Christians in that church will be full of love for God, one another, and everyone who comes.

I've been blessed with a church where I've been coming for 4 years and not once I was hurt, but I am always loved. By God's grace.
 
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d taylor

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If not the church, where God's people assemble, then where?

Depends on the church, and if Jesus' presence is there. Where 2 or 3 gather in His name, there will He be also.

How do we know if Jesus is in church? His light will shine and the Christians in that church will be full of love for God, one another, and everyone who comes.

I've been blessed with a church where I've been coming for 4 years and not once I was hurt, but I am always loved. By God's grace.
-
I have found first, to look for a church that correctly teaches how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation, by belief/faith in Jesus. If a church has an accurate teaching theology on receiving Eternal Life, then they are more likely to correctly teach other areas of The Bible. But i still will not agree 100% on other areas, especially creation teachings. But it is important that a church does get correctly, the teaching on how a person becomes a born again child of God
 
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When I became a Christian I was overwhelmed by the amount of different contradictory theologies, and for this purpose have remained nondenominational. I can't seem to find a single denomination that agrees with everything I see in the bible.
Anyhow, my intent here is not to start a fight, my intent is to understand where a very prominent false doctrine came from. When I first started getting curious about heaven I was met with the idea that all we do in heaven is sing forever around the throne. Bowing like the 24 elders in revelation. Thats it. This at times made me almost give up because it seemed like such an obvious downgrade from life now, as well as what life was originally intended to be in the garden of Eden. Humans werent made to praise nonstop, we were made to be creators. Anything but what we find in genesis is unappealing to us because its not what we were made for. This took me AGES to finally realize that this very common view is actually false. God himself tells us at the end of revelation "They will reign forever and ever". That is how the almighty signs off eternity. Us reigning. The word used for "reigning" also means to "have dominion". Sound familiar? Exactly.
So where does this idea of an eternal choir come from??? Cause I see it everywhere and its just not what the bible teaches...at all?! It also is illogical. Satan didn't spoil God's plan of a worldwide community of God following humans, creating, exploring, and inventing. We as Christians' always say that "Satan has already lost" but do we really believe it? Why do we then give him so much power as to say he foiled God's original plan, when the bible plainly says he did not.
Anyhow im rambling, ill close this off by saying I have done WAY too much research on this and I really can't find an answer on why this belief has infected our congregations, but it is really a disservice to the truth of the bible!

because they hold to another gospel ....
 
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Maria Billingsley

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When I became a Christian I was overwhelmed by the amount of different contradictory theologies, and for this purpose have remained nondenominational. I can't seem to find a single denomination that agrees with everything I see in the bible.
Anyhow, my intent here is not to start a fight, my intent is to understand where a very prominent false doctrine came from. When I first started getting curious about heaven I was met with the idea that all we do in heaven is sing forever around the throne. Bowing like the 24 elders in revelation. Thats it. This at times made me almost give up because it seemed like such an obvious downgrade from life now, as well as what life was originally intended to be in the garden of Eden. Humans werent made to praise nonstop, we were made to be creators. Anything but what we find in genesis is unappealing to us because its not what we were made for. This took me AGES to finally realize that this very common view is actually false. God himself tells us at the end of revelation "They will reign forever and ever". That is how the almighty signs off eternity. Us reigning. The word used for "reigning" also means to "have dominion". Sound familiar? Exactly.
So where does this idea of an eternal choir come from??? Cause I see it everywhere and its just not what the bible teaches...at all?! It also is illogical. Satan didn't spoil God's plan of a worldwide community of God following humans, creating, exploring, and inventing. We as Christians' always say that "Satan has already lost" but do we really believe it? Why do we then give him so much power as to say he foiled God's original plan, when the bible plainly says he did not.
Anyhow im rambling, ill close this off by saying I have done WAY too much research on this and I really can't find an answer on why this belief has infected our congregations, but it is really a disservice to the truth of the bible!
No matter how we exist in eternity ,rest assured , it is all about "perfected love.". This is all we will need.
Blessings.

Revelation
'Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death' or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.'"
 
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BobRyan

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When I became a Christian I was overwhelmed by the amount of different contradictory theologies, and for this purpose have remained nondenominational. I can't seem to find a single denomination that agrees with everything I see in the bible.
Anyhow, my intent here is not to start a fight, my intent is to understand where a very prominent false doctrine came from. When I first started getting curious about heaven I was met with the idea that all we do in heaven is sing forever around the throne. Bowing like the 24 elders in revelation. Thats it. This at times made me almost give up because it seemed like such an obvious downgrade from life now, as well as what life was originally intended to be in the garden of Eden. Humans werent made to praise nonstop, we were made to be creators. Anything but what we find in genesis is unappealing to us because its not what we were made for. This took me AGES to finally realize that this very common view is actually false. God himself tells us at the end of revelation "They will reign forever and ever". That is how the almighty signs off eternity. Us reigning. The word used for "reigning" also means to "have dominion". Sound familiar? Exactly.
So where does this idea of an eternal choir come from??? Cause I see it everywhere and its just not what the bible teaches...at all?! It also is illogical. Satan didn't spoil God's plan of a worldwide community of God following humans, creating, exploring, and inventing. We as Christians' always say that "Satan has already lost" but do we really believe it? Why do we then give him so much power as to say he foiled God's original plan, when the bible plainly says he did not.
Anyhow im rambling, ill close this off by saying I have done WAY too much research on this and I really can't find an answer on why this belief has infected our congregations, but it is really a disservice to the truth of the bible!
true --

The Eden model is what God returns us to in Rev 21 and 22. Always learning, exploring, creating, inventing... we have an infinite God so we have infinite room for growth. He will always have something new to teach us.
 
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ViaCrucis

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When I became a Christian I was overwhelmed by the amount of different contradictory theologies, and for this purpose have remained nondenominational. I can't seem to find a single denomination that agrees with everything I see in the bible.
Anyhow, my intent here is not to start a fight, my intent is to understand where a very prominent false doctrine came from. When I first started getting curious about heaven I was met with the idea that all we do in heaven is sing forever around the throne. Bowing like the 24 elders in revelation. Thats it. This at times made me almost give up because it seemed like such an obvious downgrade from life now, as well as what life was originally intended to be in the garden of Eden. Humans werent made to praise nonstop, we were made to be creators. Anything but what we find in genesis is unappealing to us because its not what we were made for. This took me AGES to finally realize that this very common view is actually false. God himself tells us at the end of revelation "They will reign forever and ever". That is how the almighty signs off eternity. Us reigning. The word used for "reigning" also means to "have dominion". Sound familiar? Exactly.
So where does this idea of an eternal choir come from??? Cause I see it everywhere and its just not what the bible teaches...at all?! It also is illogical. Satan didn't spoil God's plan of a worldwide community of God following humans, creating, exploring, and inventing. We as Christians' always say that "Satan has already lost" but do we really believe it? Why do we then give him so much power as to say he foiled God's original plan, when the bible plainly says he did not.
Anyhow im rambling, ill close this off by saying I have done WAY too much research on this and I really can't find an answer on why this belief has infected our congregations, but it is really a disservice to the truth of the bible!

In this case, the idea of just singing forever and nothing else, is less an example of a "formal" teaching that arose in any single church tradition or denomination.

This is really more of an example of what happens when there just isn't much teaching going on, or at the very least, rather anemic teaching.

I spent the first ~20 years of my life with the idea that salvation, knowing Jesus, etc meant that when I die I go to a place called heaven, and that I will spend all of eternity in that place called heaven. In my mind I understood that to mean I would basically be a "spiritual" being of some kind. My body in the ground, turned to dust, and then the earth will be destroyed, and no more earthly matter. Now, I was aware that, in the Revelation it said "new heavens and new earth", but as I understood it through how I received it (whether intentionally taught to me by others, or just incidentally because I didn't understand properly) that new earth would be "down there" but I would be "up there". I would remain as a spirit with my "spiritual body".

This was tied also into the doctrine of "the rapture" which I was taught growing up. I was taught that Jesus would return and take living Christians into heaven, it would be instantaneous--I'd be walking around here on earth and then suddenly I'd go poof and be with God. So whether I died and went to heaven or Jesus came back and took me directly into heaven, I was going to exist in a spiritual state in a spiritual place forever--and I'd spend eternity in a golden land of clouds and angels, singing songs for eternity. Though, unlike you, I didn't see that as a downside at the time.

Then something changed that. At that time in my life I had really only interacted with other Christians who believed as I did on these things. It actually didn't occur to me that there could be other views at all among Christians, because I had never encountered it. I remember my pastor once mentioning that "we were pre-trib" and that there were some Christians who were "post-trib", but this was presented as "some Christians, a very small number, have this quirky idea different than what Christians generally believe". Imagine my shock when I'm just out of high school and going onto the internet and interacting with Christians from a highly diverse range of denominations and traditions--and most of them didn't share what I considered "normal".

My initial reaction was shock, followed by hostility--I was angry that there were so many "false believers" who denied "basic Christian doctrine" like the pre-trib rapture and that we're going to spend forever with the angels in heaven singing songs to Jesus.

In those early heated arguments I had, I was consistently asked to back what I believed up with Scripture. "Easy" I thought. Turns out, it was far from easy, in fact I discovered I couldn't back it up with the Bible. In fact, when I started looking at what the Bible said, and paid attention to what the words on the page said, and started seeing how certain expressions were used over and over again, the whole rug was pulled from under my feet and I realized the Bible said something very different. It didn't say that when I die I go and spend eternity in heaven singing songs as a disembodied spiritual being, it didn't say that Jesus will return to take me directly into heaven forever.

Instead the Bible said that there would be a resurrection, that even as Jesus rose from the dead bodily, so would those who believe in Jesus be raised. That when Jesus comes, He doesn't come to take Christians into heaven, but that He comes in glory, to judge, that at His coming there would be a resurrection, that Christ would judge, and God would set creation to rights--new heaven and new earth meant this created world mattered to God and wasn't just a temporary staging area where I am tested whether I would be one of the few lucky ones to get to go to heaven, or one of the vast many who would go to hell. This world mattered, God wanted to heal and save and redeem it, and God's answer to the problem of sin, death, and every evil was resurrection: Jesus Christ rose from the dead, we too would be raised, and God is going to set creation whole.

My initial shock at finding those things in the Bible was followed by a second surprise: What I was reading in the Bible, and seemingly only for the first time in my life, is actually what Christians have been saying and believing for two thousand years. It's what the ancient fathers of the Church said, it's in the Creeds of the Church, it's what the Protestant Reformers believed. Over and over, from the Bible to the early fathers, to the Creeds, and all the way to Luther and even later Protestants like John Wesley all believed and taught these things. And, in fact, most Christians around the world belonged to churches who still believed and taught these things.

-I- was the one who had been in the dark. I had been the one with "quirky" ideas that most Christians didn't believe. And when I tried to talk to people in my church circles about it--I talked to my dad, I talked with a youth pastor, I talked with friends--it was very unhelpful. For the most part I got blank stares, or "well I always heard this so that's what I believe"--when I mentioned what I read in the Bible or my astonishment about what Christians historically believed it wasn't well received.

So I kept wanting to learn more. I started reading a lot more--my Bible more, I taught myself the Greek alphabet so I could more easily look up Greek words in lexicons, I read Church history more, I read more early Christian writings. And the more convinced I became that there was a serious disconnect between historic Christianity and my personal Christianity up to that point in my life.

That got me into several arguments with Christian friends that I had spent years with in youth groups and other church activities as a kid and teenager. At one point I remember saying, "I want to believe what the Apostles believed and taught" and one friend of mine said, "It shouldn't matter what the apostles said or taught, just what the Bible says". A statement that still boggles my mind to this day, decades later. Granted we were just "kids" at the time, 19-20 or so. But that was, in a sense, a pivitol and important moment for me. Because I didn't want to just believe whatever was convenient for me to believe, I wanted to believe something that was true and real.

That was one of several things that set me onto a journey that led me to the church tradition I'm part of now. Though that isn't the point I want to make; the point I want to make is that I hear you. There are things that just seem to be believed, or said, and these are things that simply don't seem to have much basis in the Bible or in historic Christian teaching.

It's like a game of telephone, and things get repeated. And it gets repeated so many times that we sometimes just accept that's that.

For me though, what is astonishing is that when you look at the serious theology, that stuff has endured. It's not something that just showed up one day out of the blue, it actually goes back to the beginning, it's biblical, and its what has always been believed, always taught. Consistently. Those heavy deep things of the Christian faith are anchored and built upon a strong foundation--they aren't like those things built upon sand or loose gravel that collapse from a breeze or high tide. But last, endure, and remain. Like a north star that continues to set the course for all who sail.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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eleos1954

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When I became a Christian I was overwhelmed by the amount of different contradictory theologies, and for this purpose have remained nondenominational. I can't seem to find a single denomination that agrees with everything I see in the bible.
Anyhow, my intent here is not to start a fight, my intent is to understand where a very prominent false doctrine came from. When I first started getting curious about heaven I was met with the idea that all we do in heaven is sing forever around the throne. Bowing like the 24 elders in revelation. Thats it. This at times made me almost give up because it seemed like such an obvious downgrade from life now, as well as what life was originally intended to be in the garden of Eden. Humans werent made to praise nonstop, we were made to be creators. Anything but what we find in genesis is unappealing to us because its not what we were made for. This took me AGES to finally realize that this very common view is actually false. God himself tells us at the end of revelation "They will reign forever and ever". That is how the almighty signs off eternity. Us reigning. The word used for "reigning" also means to "have dominion". Sound familiar? Exactly.
So where does this idea of an eternal choir come from??? Cause I see it everywhere and its just not what the bible teaches...at all?! It also is illogical. Satan didn't spoil God's plan of a worldwide community of God following humans, creating, exploring, and inventing. We as Christians' always say that "Satan has already lost" but do we really believe it? Why do we then give him so much power as to say he foiled God's original plan, when the bible plainly says he did not.
Anyhow im rambling, ill close this off by saying I have done WAY too much research on this and I really can't find an answer on why this belief has infected our congregations, but it is really a disservice to the truth of the bible!
No satan didn't foil God's plan .... what he did is started a war with God .... we are born to a battlefield in a sinful world .... on the cross Jesus defeated satan in the legal sense (dominion returned to Him) .... but the war on earth continues and will escalate and continue until Jesus returns and picks up all the survivors. We know He has won the war.

Matthew 13

The Parable of the Weeds

24Jesus put before them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25But while everyone was asleep, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and slipped away. 26When the wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the weeds also appeared.

27The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

28‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

So the servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

29‘No,’ he said, ‘if you pull the weeds now, you might uproot the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat into my barn.’ ”

The enemy is among us until the return of the Lord.
 
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RileyG

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In heaven, we are going to content being in the presence of God. The afterlife is shrouded in mystery because no one, other than Jesus, has come back from the dead and told us exactly what heaven will be like.

As far as Christian denominations not following the bible, each denomination (all 30,000-60,000 of them) have their own interpretation of the Bible, thus they keep dividing, dividing, dividing.
 
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timothyu

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The afterlife is shrouded in mystery because no one, other than Jesus, has come back from the dead and told us exactly what heaven will be like.
Lazarus and a little girl to name a couple. Interestingly no one thought it important enough to ask or record.
 
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DragonFox91

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The Church has a history of a pendulum swinging back & forth from what was originally taught on a wide variety of issues. People de-emphasized God, so the Church overcorrected & said it's just singing, thinking other things made it too sensual or worldly. Correct, we will do things in the New Earth that's not just singing, the Bible is very clear on that.
 
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The Liturgist

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Sadly church is one of the last places you will find accurate Bible teaching.

That is false - membership in the Church is an imperative to our salvation according to 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Galatians, 2 Thessalonians, Matthew 16, the entire book of Acts, the Johannine Epistles, Revelation, and so on. In 1 Corinthians St. Paul describes the Christian Church as the Body of Christ.

The importance of the Church is also echoed in the Nicene Creed, part of the ChristianForums Statement of Faith (which provides convenient scripture references to the Creed, I have put the relevant portions in bold, with underlines).

Statement of Faith
The Nicene Creed

We believe in (Romans 10:8-10; 1John 4:15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6:4, Ephesians 4:6)
the Father (Matthew 6:9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6:3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1:1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1:15-16)
And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11:17)
the Son of God, (Mathew 14:33; 16:16)
the Only-Begotten, (John 1:18; 3:16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1:2)
Light of Light; (Psalm 27:1; John 8:12; Matthew 17:2,5)
True God of True God; (John 17:1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1:18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10:30)
by whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1:1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1Timothy 2:4-5)
came down from Heaven, (John 6:33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, (Luke 1:35)
and became man. (John 1:14)
And was crucified for us (Mark 15:25; 1Cointhians 15:3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19:6)
and suffered, (Mark 8:31)
and was buried. (Luke 23:53; 1Corinthians 15:4)
And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures. (Luke 24:1 1Corinthians 15:4)
And ascended into Heaven, (Luke 24:51; Acts 1:10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father. (Mark 16:19; Acts 7:55)
And He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24:27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10:42; 2Timothy 4:1)
whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1:11)
And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14:26)
the Lord, (Acts 5:3-4)
the Giver of Life, (Genesis 1:2)
Who proceeds from the Father; (John 15:26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; (Matthew 3:16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19:20 ; Ezekiel 11:5,13)

In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2:5,9)
catholic*, (Mark 16:15)
and apostolic Church. (Acts 2:42; Ephesians 2:19-22)


I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins**. (Ephesians 4:5; Acts 2:38)
I look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11:24; 1Corinthians 15:12-49; Hebrews 6:2; Revelation 20:5)
and the life of the world to come. (Mark 10:29-30)
AMEN. (Psalm 106:48)

Notes​

* The word "catholic" (literally, "complete," "universal," or "according to the whole") refers to the universal church of the Lord Jesus Christ and not necessarily or exclusively to any particular visible denomination, institution, or doctrine.


** May be interpreted as baptism is a matter of obedience and not a requirement for salvation or as a regenerating ordinance.

Faith groups and individuals that deny the full, eternal deity of Jesus Christ or His incarnation whereby He, as God, took on human flesh (becoming fully God and fully man in one person), are considered non-Christians at CF. Posts that deny the full, eternal deity of Jesus Christ or His incarnation are considered non-Christian theology and are not allowed in "Christians Only" forums. Discussions in all "Christians Only" forums must be in alignment with Trinitarian beliefs.

Challenging Paul's position as an Apostle of Jesus Christ who (although not one of the original twelve) was sent forth by Christ after his conversion [Acts 9:15-16], or arguing against the inclusion of Paul's writings in the New Testament canon, is not allowed in any "Christians Only" forums (including the Controversial Christian Theology forum). You may disagree on the interpretation and application of his writings, but not their place as canon or Paul as an inspired author of Scripture.

Unorthodox Christian theology may only be discussed in the Controversial Christian Theology forum. These unorthodox topics do not directly oppose the Nicene Creed, but are not considered to be orthodox on CF. These unorthodox topics may not contradict the Nicene Creed. Non-Trinitarianism may only be discussed in the Outreach category forums. Gnosticism may not be discussed in any CF forums. The Controversial Christian Theology forum is open to Christian members only (faith groups list). Unorthodox Christian theological topics include (but are not limited to):

  • Annihilationism
  • Full Preterism
  • Open Theism
  • Universalism
 
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d taylor

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That is false - membership in the Church is an imperative to our salvation according to 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Galatians, 2 Thessalonians, Matthew 16, the entire book of Acts, the Johannine Epistles, Revelation, and so on. In 1 Corinthians St. Paul describes the Christian Church as the Body of Christ.

The importance of the Church is also echoed in the Nicene Creed, part of the ChristianForums Statement of Faith (which provides convenient scripture references to the Creed, I have put the relevant portions in bold, with underlines).

Statement of Faith
The Nicene Creed

We believe in (Romans 10:8-10; 1John 4:15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6:4, Ephesians 4:6)
the Father (Matthew 6:9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6:3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1:1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1:15-16)
And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11:17)
the Son of God, (Mathew 14:33; 16:16)
the Only-Begotten, (John 1:18; 3:16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1:2)
Light of Light; (Psalm 27:1; John 8:12; Matthew 17:2,5)
True God of True God; (John 17:1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1:18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10:30)
by whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1:1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1Timothy 2:4-5)
came down from Heaven, (John 6:33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, (Luke 1:35)
and became man. (John 1:14)
And was crucified for us (Mark 15:25; 1Cointhians 15:3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19:6)
and suffered, (Mark 8:31)
and was buried. (Luke 23:53; 1Corinthians 15:4)
And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures. (Luke 24:1 1Corinthians 15:4)
And ascended into Heaven, (Luke 24:51; Acts 1:10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father. (Mark 16:19; Acts 7:55)
And He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24:27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10:42; 2Timothy 4:1)
whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1:11)
And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14:26)
the Lord, (Acts 5:3-4)
the Giver of Life, (Genesis 1:2)
Who proceeds from the Father; (John 15:26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; (Matthew 3:16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19:20 ; Ezekiel 11:5,13)

In one, (Matthew 16: 18)

holy, (1 Peter 2:5,9)

catholic*, (Mark 16:15)

and apostolic Church. (Acts 2:42; Ephesians 2:19-22)


I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins**. (Ephesians 4:5; Acts 2:38)
I look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11:24; 1Corinthians 15:12-49; Hebrews 6:2; Revelation 20:5)
and the life of the world to come. (Mark 10:29-30)
AMEN. (Psalm 106:48)

Notes​

* The word "catholic" (literally, "complete," "universal," or "according to the whole") refers to the universal church of the Lord Jesus Christ and not necessarily or exclusively to any particular visible denomination, institution, or doctrine.


** May be interpreted as baptism is a matter of obedience and not a requirement for salvation or as a regenerating ordinance.

Faith groups and individuals that deny the full, eternal deity of Jesus Christ or His incarnation whereby He, as God, took on human flesh (becoming fully God and fully man in one person), are considered non-Christians at CF. Posts that deny the full, eternal deity of Jesus Christ or His incarnation are considered non-Christian theology and are not allowed in "Christians Only" forums. Discussions in all "Christians Only" forums must be in alignment with Trinitarian beliefs.

Challenging Paul's position as an Apostle of Jesus Christ who (although not one of the original twelve) was sent forth by Christ after his conversion [Acts 9:15-16], or arguing against the inclusion of Paul's writings in the New Testament canon, is not allowed in any "Christians Only" forums (including the Controversial Christian Theology forum). You may disagree on the interpretation and application of his writings, but not their place as canon or Paul as an inspired author of Scripture.

Unorthodox Christian theology may only be discussed in the Controversial Christian Theology forum. These unorthodox topics do not directly oppose the Nicene Creed, but are not considered to be orthodox on CF. These unorthodox topics may not contradict the Nicene Creed. Non-Trinitarianism may only be discussed in the Outreach category forums. Gnosticism may not be discussed in any CF forums. The Controversial Christian Theology forum is open to Christian members only (faith groups list). Unorthodox Christian theological topics include (but are not limited to):

  • Annihilationism
  • Full Preterism
  • Open Theism
  • Universalism
-
All i have to say on the matter is, this small single verse, says so much more, than your long written post.

Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
 
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