where did sin come from

[beloved57]

In rev 4 : 11Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Is sin included in all things ?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

In rev 4 : 11Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Is sin included in all things ?

Yup.

 

[beloved57]

Yup.

Amen, I would have to agree. IMO from scripture, God created all things and everyone to serve His Divine purposes... It is a great blessing to understand that truth..

 

[OObi]

No, God did not create sin. God is holy and He would not create that which is contrary to His nature. Sinfulness is the opposite of holiness. It is lawlessness (1 John 3:4). God is the author of the Law which is a reflection of His holy character (Exodus 20). Therefore, God cannot create that which is in direct violation of the Law any more than a person can wish himself to be bigger than the sun. It just isn’t possible.

But, if God didn’t create sin, then where did it come from? This is a question that has been debated by theologians and philosophers for many years. I cannot say that I have any better answers than they. Nevertheless, let me venture a guess.

God created the conditions where free will creatures would be able to make a choice between obedience and disobedience to God. This condition existed when God created an angel called Lucifer who was without sin yet, apparently, had free will. Lucifer chose to rebel against God and sin (Isaiah 14:12-15; Ezek. 28:13-15). Likewise, Adam and Eve, having been made by God without sin, listened to the devil and chose to sin against God (Gen. 3).

But God did not cause them to sin (James 1:13). In the freedom of their wills, each decided to rebel against God and sin entered the world (Rom. 5:12). God simply allowed the condition to exist where sin was possible.

An analogy can be found in the relationship between a parent and a child. A parent can create the condition that makes disobedience possible yet the parent remains innocent if the child sins. For example, if a parent tells his child to clean up his room and the child does not, he has rebelled. But, the parent is not responsible for the child’s sin, nor did he cause the child to sin. The child had a choice to obey or not to obey.

Likewise, God has created the condition in the world where the ability to rebel against Him was possible. Yet, he is not responsible for that rebellion once it has been committed. Therefore, sin originated with Lucifer who was the first to rebel and entered the world through Adam who likewise chose disobedience.

In Christ, OObi

 

[beloved57]

No, God did not create sin. God is holy and He would not create that which is contrary to His nature. Sinfulness is the opposite of holiness. It is lawlessness (1 John 3:4). God is the author of the Law which is a reflection of His holy character (Exodus 20). Therefore, God cannot create that which is in direct violation of the Law any more than a person can wish himself to be bigger than the sun. It just isn’t possible.

But, if God didn’t create sin, then where did it come from? This is a question that has been debated by theologians and philosophers for many years. I cannot say that I have any better answers than they. Nevertheless, let me venture a guess.

God created the conditions where free will creatures would be able to make a choice between obedience and disobedience to God. This condition existed when God created an angel called Lucifer who was without sin yet, apparently, had free will. Lucifer chose to rebel against God and sin (Isaiah 14:12-15; Ezek. 28:13-15). Likewise, Adam and Eve, having been made by God without sin, listened to the devil and chose to sin against God (Gen. 3).

But God did not cause them to sin (James 1:13). In the freedom of their wills, each decided to rebel against God and sin entered the world (Rom. 5:12). God simply allowed the condition to exist where sin was possible.

An analogy can be found in the relationship between a parent and a child. A parent can create the condition that makes disobedience possible yet the parent remains innocent if the child sins. For example, if a parent tells his child to clean up his room and the child does not, he has rebelled. But, the parent is not responsible for the child’s sin, nor did he cause the child to sin. The child had a choice to obey or not to obey.

Likewise, God has created the condition in the world where the ability to rebel against Him was possible. Yet, he is not responsible for that rebellion once it has been committed. Therefore, sin originated with Lucifer who was the first to rebel and entered the world through Adam who likewise chose disobedience.

In Christ, OObi

First of all, the scripture says God created all things ! rev 4:11 You are worthy, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
and by your will they were created
and have their being."

secondly, No one has or ever had free will save God. Adam nor Satan could not have sinned, because it was Gods eternal purpose that they did sin. Thirdly, God having created sin and sinning is two different things. Sin emanated not from his being of essence , but it did proceed from within His sovereign perogative and good pleasure. Sin in and of its self is evil, but because God created it it serves for wise and holy purposes. It was out of the backdrop of sin and misery that God purposed to manifest his love and Grace towards His elect !

 

[scandinavian19]

It was out of the backdrop of sin and misery that God purposed to manifest his love and Grace towards His elect !

Was this part of the humiliation and total defeat of sin through the blood atonement provided by the Cross?

Also was it to demonstrate to angelic majesties incommunicable attributes of God like mercy, grace, love of which were not previously visible?

 

[beloved57]

Was this part of the humiliation and total defeat of sin through the blood atonement provided by the Cross?

Also was it to demonstrate to angelic majesties incommunicable attributes of God like mercy, grace, love of which were not previously visible?

you said

Also was it to demonstrate to angelic majesties incommunicable attributes of God like mercy, grace, love of which were not previously visible?

Yes , look at eph 2:7Also was it to demonstrate to angelic majesties incommunicable attributes of God like mercy, grace, love of which were not previously visible?

you say

Was this part of the humiliation and total defeat of sin through the blood atonement provided by the Cross?

Yes, indeed look at col 2: 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

 

[BrandonGray]

No, I think sin was created by free will.

 

[OObi]

First of all, the scripture says God created all things ! rev 4:11 You are worthy, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
and by your will they were created
and have their being."

Ah... but what if sin wasn't a creation? YHWH has existed forever. And what is sin? Well, by Biblical defenitions, it is trangression of the law. But I mean what is sin as in the deeper defenition of it? Sin is simply what God doesn't do. God is our Guide and we try to lead Godlike lives. Sin is going against the nature of God. So, if God has existed forever, then that means whatever is contrary to God has existed forever. That is, sin has existed forever.

 

[hlaltimus]

He created all material things and then created the capacity for choice in all animate created objects, (angels, men, women,) but does not ever violate that choice where once it is bestowed. God is truly before all things as the Scriptures assert, and I still do not understand just exactly HOW He is before all things, but I do know that it does not mean that He designedly creates sin. That mistake can be safely attributed to Satan's department. God allowed for the free agency of the devil who so chose to sin, but freedom of choice and choice are two different things. One is God's unblameable work and the other is Satan's highly blameable work. "Credit where credit is due."

 

[OObi]

Sin was not a creation. To take the passage that says YHWH created all things, and twist it that way, you would have to apply it to YHWH as well because even He would be under the heading of all.

Sin wasn't a creation. Sin is contrary to God, and God has always existed. So, if God has always existed, then so has sin. Let me put it in an analogy:

Let's pretend that light has always existed. You have light that is eternal in nature, going in and out of people's houses and on the streets and all over and so on. Now, when the light leaves, such as goes out of the house, what happens? It gets dark. Why? Because the light is no longer there, it is the absence of light, it wasn't a creation. It is the lack of something, not a creation. Light has existed forever, but so has darkness, but darkness was not a creation.

The light is God, and the darkness is sin.

 

[scandinavian19]

The light is God, and the darkness is sin.

1Jo 1:5 -This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.

There is no change of God's nature he is the same from eternity past, present, and future.
Jas 1:17 - Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow.
God allowed sin to exist it wasn't created.

 

[holyrokker]

Romans 5:12 says that sin entired the world through Adam.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

God created sin. The way he did it is suggested in the cursing of Canaan by his grandfather, Noah. This event reveals how sin came into being. Reread the account but substitute God for Noah, Lucifer for Canaan, and the rebellion for the offence of Canaan. Then carefully follow the chronology of events in that story. You'll see that Noah didn't pronounce the curse until after he had seen what Canaan had done to him.

 

[nitr0gen]

Sin is created from doing the opposite of Yahweh's Will. Just like when the Sun sets, darkness rolls in; but is darkness a creation, or is the opposite of the light that shown during the day? Darkness is a byproduct of light being removed. If Yahweh's Laws are not followed, then they are moved out of the way to do as one pleases. That constitues the opposite of what Yahweh administered as His Law; therefore, it constitutes SIN. So, who created the sin? It was not Yahweh. It was the person or spirit that made a free will choice to oppose Yahweh's Will. Satan the Devil, is the opposer and slanderer of Yahweh. He opposed by beaking His Law, and slandered by saying the first couple would not die, in opposition of what Yahweh told them in the Sacred Garden. Does that make Yahweh the creator of sin, or Satan who it originated with?

Colossians 1:18-20 " He is also the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He might come to have first place in everything. For God was pleased [to have] all His fullness dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile everything to Himself by making peace through the blood of His cross — whether things on earth or things in heaven." Yahweh made peace by taking the sin away from those that Christ died on the Cross for. If sin were part of God's makeup, he would not need to end the sin in those that survive into the Kingdom.

Romans 5:10 "For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, [then how] much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!" If God created sin, he would be an enemy unto Himself. To be an enemy of God, you must practice sin. That is the willful breaking of his Law with disregard for the Sacrifice that takes the sin away from those that put their faith in Christ and Yahweh.

Yahweh gave Laws to His creation. To break them is to be opposite of Yahweh; therefore, He cannot be, nor contain within Himself - sin.

 

[beloved57]

Ah... but what if sin wasn't a creation? YHWH has existed forever. And what is sin? Well, by Biblical defenitions, it is trangression of the law. But I mean what is sin as in the deeper defenition of it? Sin is simply what God doesn't do. God is our Guide and we try to lead Godlike lives. Sin is going against the nature of God. So, if God has existed forever, then that means whatever is contrary to God has existed forever. That is, sin has existed forever.

Hm...I see what you are saying, but you can use that same line of reasoning with man or the elect. The elect were in christ before time (as we know it began)see eph 1: 4 and titus 1: 2, yet we were created in adam ! don`t forget romans says by one man sin entered the world rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

 

[beloved57]

No, I think sin was created by free will.

Yeah, God`s free sovereign will...

 

[beloved57]

Sin was not a creation. To take the passage that says YHWH created all things, and twist it that way, you would have to apply it to YHWH as well because even He would be under the heading of all.

Sin wasn't a creation. Sin is contrary to God, and God has always existed. So, if God has always existed, then so has sin. Let me put it in an analogy:

Let's pretend that light has always existed. You have light that is eternal in nature, going in and out of people's houses and on the streets and all over and so on. Now, when the light leaves, such as goes out of the house, what happens? It gets dark. Why? Because the light is no longer there, it is the absence of light, it wasn't a creation. It is the lack of something, not a creation. Light has existed forever, but so has darkness, but darkness was not a creation.

The light is God, and the darkness is sin.

you say

but darkness was not a creation.

The bible says :I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

 

[OObi]

Hm...I see what you are saying, but you can use that same line of reasoning with man or the elect. The elect were in christ before time (as we know it began)see eph 1: 4 and titus 1: 2, yet we were created in adam ! don`t forget romans says by one man sin entered the world rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Now, was sin created here, or did it just enter the world?

The bible says :I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

I meant that in my analogy darkness was not a creation. Light has not existed forever, that was a creation as well. That is why darkness was a creation, because it is the lack of light. However, if light was eternal, then darkness would also be eternal. Light is not eternal, but God is. God is eternal, therefore, the absence of God is eternal. Sin is eternal. It was not created.

 

[Love321]

Satan was the first sinner............

We are made of corruption...............our flesh is corrupt..........

Flesh and blood are made in corruption...............so flesh and blood cannot enter heaven.
A soul can...............not flesh and blood.

We must put on a new glorified body of incorruption to enter heaven.

THE CHURCH IS NOT PERFECT…………. AS LONG AS IT HAS FLESH THAT IS CORRUPTION IN ITSELF…………. It makes sense if we consider it is the new body we are to have when Raptured…..


1 Corinthians 15:42
So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1 Corinthians 15:50
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

We are made of flesh and even though saved …. We are housed in corruption.

THIS BODY WE ARE IN IS CORRUPT.


WE INHERIT ******NEW BODIES MADE OF INCORRUPTION…….


THEY DO NOT AGE……….WE MUST LIVE IN THEM FOR ETERNITY…



NO SPOT, NO WRINKLE, OR ANY SUCH THING……….. But that it should be holy and without blemish.


No imperfections, no aged wrinkles, no disease, no corruption………….. Holy and without blemish.

1 Peter 1:4
To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, `Reserved for us.

1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. (Saved we will inherit.)

We shall have a new Glorified Body …

Philippians 3:21 Who shall........... change our...... vile..... body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.



JESUS SHALL CHANGE OUR VILE BODIES OF CORRUPTION AND GIVE US A NEW BODY OF INCORRUPTION..........THAT IT MAY FASHIONED LIKE UNTO HIS ...........GLORIOUS BODY......

AND THEY WILL NOT AGE OR HAVE SICKNESS........OR BLEMISH...............IMAGINE THAT...

WE WILL NEVER DIE..........AND NEITHER WILL THE BODY!


To sum it up...............our flesh alone is corrupt.............capable of sin.


God Bless
Love321