Where can we all agree?

[Deadbolt]

I often see many threads here containing a polarized debate of some kind, but where can we agree on morals? As far as what is right and what is wrong. Naturally, pulling bible verses isn't going to help here. Lets speak of our innate morality. Where do we all agree?

 

[TheOutsider]

I think that all of us can agree that murder is bad. I'm sure someone will try to prove me wrong though.

 

[quatona]

I suspect that unless we escape to the use of unspecific universal positive signifiers (like "love", for example) we won´t get far.
Love is good. Good is being loving. IOW love is love and good is good.

In the ex negativo approach: Collectively assuming disingenious intentions helps agreeing that something is bad.

 

[quatona]

I think that all of us can agree that murder is bad.

Talk about unspecific negative universal signifiers.
Unfortunately we can not all agree in which cases killing is "murder", though.

 

[Yusuf Evans]

I think we can all agree that child molestation is bad.

 

[Deadbolt]

I think we can all agree that child molestation is bad.

Or harming a child at all in any way...but we disagree as to what this constitutes...

 

[quatona]

I think we can all agree that child molestation is bad.

That would not really come as a surprise, because we call an interaction with children "child molestation" exactly because we feel it´s bad.

 

[quatona]

To cut a long story short, we can all agree that something bad is not good. I mean, that´s quite something, isn´t it?

 

[quatona]

How about freedom, eh? Don´t we all agree that freedom is great?

It´s another of those words with which our main interest lies in keeping it positively connotated, to the point of risking a communication breakdown or even beyond that point.
Atheism is about freedom, theism is about freedom, communism is, capitalism is.
We´d never allow "freedom" to be used for something we find negative; instead we´d say "well, ok, but that´s not freedom".

 

[Blayz]

I think we can agree killing me would be bad

 

[quatona]

I think we can agree killing me would be bad

At least we might all agree that you have a high self-esteem.

 

[Voegelin]

Where do we all agree?

We don't. Got two different world views going on here. And its nothing new. Started in a major way with the French Revolution and the American election of 1800.

Interesting aspect of this is that it is usually the left which laments "polarization", which calls for "uniting" America. Every Obama supporter website I read says the same thing....Obama can "bring America together". George Soros spent millions on a "nonprofit" in 2004 called "America Coming Together (ACT)". That group, as you may recall, didn't bring America together, did just the opposite in fact and ended up in some legal difficulties with the Federal Election Commission among other entities.

All this rhetoric supposes we are one big happy collective in which there are some minor disagreement which can be easily "healed". We're aren't and we can't.

I have no interest in agreeing with Soros or Obama on virtually anything.

 

[karen freeinchristman]

Can we agree on this, from Socrates:

"The unexamined life is not worth living"

?

 

[Eudaimonist]

I often see many threads here containing a polarized debate of some kind, but where can we agree on morals? As far as what is right and what is wrong. Naturally, pulling bible verses isn't going to help here. Lets speak of our innate morality. Where do we all agree?

What would constitute agreement? If someone says that murder is wrong out of divine commandment theory, is that really the same as saying that murder is wrong out of social contractarian theory? Or utilitarianism?

I'd personally have to say "no". In which case, it is unlikely that there is real common ground in morality that everyone shares.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Eudaimonist]

Can we agree on this, from Socrates:

"The unexamined life is not worth living"

?

I personally can, but I doubt that the people of Athens who had Socrates executed were behind him on this point.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[quatona]

Can we agree on this, from Socrates:

"The unexamined life is not worth living"

?

Depends on what he means when saying "unexamined life".

 

[karen freeinchristman]

Depends on what he means when saying "unexamined life".

Self-reflection is what I would think.

 

[elcapitan]

Where do we all agree?

We don't. Got two different world views going on here. And its nothing new. Started in a major way with the French Revolution and the American election of 1800.

Interesting aspect of this is that it is usually the left which laments "polarization", which calls for "uniting" America. Every Obama supporter website I read says the same thing....Obama can "bring America together". George Soros spent millions on a "nonprofit" in 2004 called "America Coming Together (ACT)". That group, as you may recall, didn't bring America together, did just the opposite in fact and ended up in some legal difficulties with the Federal Election Commission among other entities.

All this rhetoric supposes we are one big happy collective in which there are some minor disagreement which can be easily "healed". We're aren't and we can't.

I have no interest in agreeing with Soros or Obama on virtually anything.

Lets not forget president Bush, who claimed to be a "uniter, not a divider". Ironically, the nation was divided almost 50-50 on whether he was a uniter or a divider. Go figure.

 

[quatona]

Self-reflection is what I would think.

Like in "A life without self-reflection is not worth living"?
Why is it that I always seem to have problems agreeing with such general statements?
I mean, had he said "Self-reflection plays an important part in my life and I enjoy it a lot", I would without hesitation have responded "Yeah, man, I feel the same."

 

[karen freeinchristman]

Like in "A life without self-reflection is not worth living"?
Why is it that I always seem to have problems agreeing with such general statements?
I mean, had he said "Self-reflection plays an important part in my life and I enjoy it a lot", I would without hesitation have responded "Yeah, man, I feel the same."

Well, I guess my argument would be that self-reflection is more than just enjoyable (and in fact, is often not enjoyable), but is necessary for a person to be aware of moral choices and the repercussions of those choices.