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Where are they today?

achristiantech

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I'm familiar with the scriptures II Corinthians 5:8 and Luke 23:43, however it's still not clear to me where those saved and the unsaved are upon their death. Some suggest the saved are in heaven with God, that the unsaved are in hell. However if the unsaved have not had had the Final Judgement why would they be in hell at this time? I'm not Catholic so I don't accept the belief in Purgatory, but thought it would be interesting to find out what other Christians believe. I suppose this question is just an exercise since I don't believe anyone other than God knows for sure.
Your opinion and thoughts are welcome. If this issue has been addressed in another thread, I'd be interested in a link to it. Thanks and God bless all of you.
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Zebra1552

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I'm familiar with the scriptures II Corinthians 5:8 and Luke 23:43, however it's still not clear to me where those saved and the unsaved are upon their death. Some suggest the saved are in heaven with God, that the unsaved are in hell. However if the unsaved have not had had the Final Judgement why would they be in hell at this time? I'm not Catholic so I don't accept the belief in Purgatory, but thought it would be interesting to find out what other Christians believe. I suppose this question is just an exercise since I don't believe anyone other than God knows for sure.
Your opinion and thoughts are welcome. If this issue has been addressed in another thread, I'd be interested in a link to it. Thanks and God bless all of you.
:confused:
They 'sleep' until judgment time. Which could be more like an instant or a very long time... seeing as God's outside time, that's a mystery.
 
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daydreamergurl15

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It's funny, the bible speaks of those who "sleep", it speaks of those in Hades, etc....
Hades as a holding place with a "great goft fix" in Luke 16:19-31

Rev 20:13
And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.​
It also seems that some are in the sea, in Death and Hades...

Hm... mystery isn't it. I don't care, as long as in the end, I am with God, I'm good. :)
 
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DrBubbaLove

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I am Catholic, do believe in Purgatory, but that does not explain where departed souls are right now. The Church teaching on this particular matter is not set on every detail on this question and this is probably so for many good reasons.

We are not really told in detail in scripture and it has not been revealed by the Holy Spirit to us in detail to us are perhaps two principle reasons the Church teaching is rather vague. Then there is the matter of our inability to fully comprehend what it means for the body to die and our souls to live on (in regards to place, time and our ability to "experience" such things absent a body for one thing). We currently "experience" and only know "existence" through this body.

Maybe we should begin with what we know ("we" being those holding Christian beliefs and for some of this - traditional Christian beliefs). We do know in a future we are told we all get new bodies before a final judgement. We know our souls are immortal, created and given to us by God, sometime after our conception but before birth (John leaped for joy in his mother's womb). We know that we are judged on this life alone. We know before the Resurrection that people who had passed-on went to two different places, one bad and one pleasant. We know or at least infer from some scripture stories that the dead are concious/aware of their surroundings/state, both from a pleading for self and for others perspective (prayer??).

From these things we can speculate about where souls are or are not right now, but I think absent a special revelation from God, much of this remains speculation. We can use our reasoning to make conclusions which are probably sound if our logic is correct.

The thief is told he would be with Jesus in Paradise that day. We could go around and around about what that means exactly. It is probably safe to say at the very least that much like before the Resurrection, people going to Heaven can be a good place soon after they die, and by contrast those going to Hell will be in a bad place. If there is a good place, it makes sense that there were would be a less desirable place. Whether those places are our final abodes am not sure how we could know or why it matters since without a body it would seem our ability to experience those places would be somewhat limited.

The basic Church teaching is that those destined for Hell in the final Judgment will go straight there when they die (as a human soul) and begin suffering to be resurrected and then tossed body and soul into everlasting torment in the end. Those going to Heaven go to be with Jesus when they die (as a human soul). My apologies if this does not specifically answer exactly where in this universe (or other???) they are, but I think to try and answer that more precisely goes beyond what we know and maybe what we are able to know/comprehend.
 
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Webers_Home

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CAUTION: the contents of this post may not be suitable for people with a low tolerance for gore and horror.

RE: . However if the unsaved have not had had the Final Judgement why would they be in hell at this time?

There are two Hells in the New Testament; a temporary Hell and a permanent Hell.

The temporary Hell is Hades; named after the Greek word haides (hah'-dace) which is the unseen world of the dead: both the good dead and the bad dead.

Jesus went to Hades right after his crucifixion (Acts 2:27-32)

And there's a certain rich man who also went to Hades (Luke 16:19-24)

The paradise section of Hades houses good men like Christ and Abraham (Luke 23:43, Luke 16:22-16)

The fiery section of Hades houses bad people (Luke 16:23-24)

The fiery section of Hades incarcerates unbelievers, whom Jesus says are already condemned; no delay, and no waiting period.

†. John 3:18 . . He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that disbelieves is condemned already, because he hasn't relied upon the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Unbelievers, no matter where they currently reside— whether in the fiery section of Hades or still active in this life— exist in not only an already-condemned status, but also in a condition of Death.

†. John 5:24 . . I assure you, those who heed my message, and believe in God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from Death into Life.

The Dead warehoused in the fiery section of Hades are being held there only till their day in court at the Great White Throne of Rev 20:11-15 when afterwards they will be incarcerated in a reservoir of liquid flame; which is the permanent of the two Hells; and commonly referred to by the Greek word geena (gheh'-en-nah) which was a valley near Jerusalem that apparently once served as the ancient city's landfill, where fires were kept burning day and night doing the double duty of incinerating a constant waste stream of urban refuse and the corpses of dead animals and low income citizens.

The permanent Hell is particularly nasty because its infested with a special parasite (Isa 66:23-24, Mrk 9:43-48).

The Greek word for those parasites is skolex (sko'-lakes) which identifies grubs, maggots, and/or earth-worms. The worms, of course, are implied to feed upon the Dead just as normal worms in life thrive on an open corpse.

A worm that thrives in liquid flame is pretty amazing, but not totally unreasonable. The 4-inch Pompeii worm lives in sea water temperatures of 176 degrees Fahrenheit— hot enough to sanitize an egg; and if you were to cook a pork [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] at that temperature at, say, 90-120 minutes per pound, it would come out nice and tender. So I guess if God could create a worm like the Pompeii, it shouldn't be too difficult for Him to create worms that like it even warmer.

Acts 12:21-23 records a Herod's death by skolex of the infectious parasitic type. The Bible record goes right to the bottom line without any details, but according to an article I read in a back issue of Biblical Archaeology Review, Herod didn't die immediately as the Biblical narrative seems to suggest, but rather, suffered with the malady quite a while. The worms were located mostly in his private areas and were so painful at times that he couldn't even walk or conduct state business.

If people think the fiery section of Hades is hell, they haven't seen anything yet. The reservoir of liquid flame— and its indigenous parasites —is a horror beyond words. And why is that? Because the Dead have to undergo punishment at the Great White Throne prior to being incarcerated in liquid flame; and every sin will receive it's fair amount of retribution.

In my opinion, it's a fool who would take their chances in court with the Bible's God. The process is very thorough; with no plea bargaining nor leniency for first time offenders; no mitigating circumstances, and no time off for good behavior nor the possibility of parole— the scales of justice have to balance: eye for eye, tooth for tooth, bone for bone, skin for skin, injustice for injustice, abuse for abuse, burning for burning, bruise for bruise, dollar for dollar, curse for curse.

Let's say that lies will be punished with fifteen lashes. If somebody is on trial for 200 counts of lies in their lifetime, then they will be given fifteen lashes per each count for a total of 3,000 lashes; and that's just for their lies. Every thought, word, and deed will be weighed in the balances; including things people did in private when they thought nobody was looking. Jesus said that even people's thoughtless words will be on trial too, not just their serious words (Mtt 12:36-37),

Since that's the case, then when the Dead leave the courtroom, many will leave it with broken bones, their eyes gouged out, teeth missing, paralysis, blindness, speech defects, and their flesh flayed open. And isn't unreasonable to expect that women like Lorena Bobbitt will have to undergo a certain amount of mutilation as retribution for the unspeakable things they did to men. Men too will undergo mutilation to pay them back for what they did to nursing mothers in war-torn countries like Somalia, Darfur, and Rwanda. No one is a protected species at the Great White Throne; neither men nor women. Both genders are going to pay for the atrocities they did to each other while in this life.

It is highly likely many of the Dead will be so weak from their punishments, and from loss of blood, that they will have to be carried out on stretchers, and the skolex will be right there anxious to infect their open wounds the instant they splash into the fiery liquid as human hamburger meat; giving the reservoir of liquid flame the appearance of an apple-bobbing tub what with all the thousands of injured people floating around in it like so many meat balls in a pot of simmering spaghetti sauce.

†. Isa 66:23-24 . . From one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me; testifies Yhvh. And they will go out and gaze upon the carcasses of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.

C.L.I.F.F.
/
 
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