Where are the true apostles?

[G4m]

Paul states the signs of a true apostle:

2Co 12:12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

As far as I know, only Jesus and the apostles received the baptism of the Spirit without prompting, direct from heaven, with a visible sign:

Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

All others who received the Spirit were only through the interaction with the baptised apostles:

Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Act 8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

Act 8:19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

So how would anyone receive the baptism of the Spirit except with the help of a true apostle? Also why aren't there any true apostles, is it a setup for the antichrist to come in?

2Th 2:9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

 

[Svt4Him]

They could ask.

The Holy Bible, New King James Version



Matthew 3:11 (NKJV)

11I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

The Holy Bible, New King James Version Luke 11:

9"So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find;
knock, and it will be opened to you. 10For everyone who asks receives, and he
who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 11If a son asks for
bread from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a
fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish? 12Or if he asks for an egg, will
he offer him a scorpion? 13If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to
your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to
those who ask Him!"

 

[G4m]

They could ask.

The Holy Bible, New King James Version



Matthew 3:11 (NKJV)

11I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

The Holy Bible, New King James Version Luke 11:

9"So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find;
knock, and it will be opened to you. 10For everyone who asks receives, and he
who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 11If a son asks for
bread from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a
fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish? 12Or if he asks for an egg, will
he offer him a scorpion? 13If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to
your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to
those who ask Him!"

Excellent point! But it's only recorded as happening when the apostles asked for others. Also what's your take on where the true apostles are?

 

[Svt4Him]

Who layed hands here?

Acts 10:

44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.

Then Peter answered, 47"Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" 48And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.

Peter didn't ask for it, nor does the verse imply that the apostles need to ask for you.

 

[G4m]

Who layed hands here?

Acts 10:

44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.

Then Peter answered, 47"Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" 48And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.

Peter didn't ask for it, nor does the verse imply that the apostles need to ask for you.

When I initially said interaction, I meant laying on of hands, preaching the gospel with the power of the Holy Spirit, or praying for the receiving of the Spirit. Cornelius was a believer:

Acts 10
1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

Maybe he hadn't heard the gospel, but the baptism of the spirit came through the apostle Peter preaching to him with the power of the Holy Spirit.

1 Thessalonians 1
5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

1 Corinthians 2
4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

Some believed without even knowing about the Holy Spirit:

Acts 19
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

 

[Svt4Him]

Ok, so the Bible says you will receive the Holy Spirit if you ask. That to me is pretty clear. Then in Acts, everyone received the Holy Spirit at the same time, but it doesn't say it was because of the apostles. And the only qualification is belief, as it is also clear here:

17And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues

How will they do this? With the power of the Holy Spirit.

"...Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call" (Acts 2:38-39).

How do you receive the gift? It's for all who believe.

"Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him (Acts 5:28-32)."

Whom has God given the Holy Ghost too? All who obey.

Now the Bible is pretty clear about how to receive the Holy Spirit. To say the apostles where the only ones to be able to do this doesn't seem clear to me. But let me also add, that Jesus is the one who baptises with the Holy Spirit. Is it possible to be in Jesus' presence without anyone else there?

Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus

 

[Andrew]

So how would anyone receive the baptism of the Spirit except with the help of a true apostle? Also why aren't there any true apostles, is it a setup for the antichrist to come in?

What about Paul then? No Apostle laid hands on him or interacted with him when he received the Holy Spirit, in fact, they all feared him.

But God did it through "a certain disciple named Ananias" who laid hands on Paul -- Paul's eye's were then opened and he was "filled with the Holy Spirit".

And in Acts, Peter said Ac 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Now do you think this promise is limited only to who the Apostles interacted with? Doesn't the Lord still call today or has He stopped? But if He is still calling today, then the promise is still available.

 

[G4m]

What about Paul then? No Apostle laid hands on him or interacted with him when he received the Holy Spirit, in fact, they all feared him.

But God did it through "a certain disciple named Ananias" who laid hands on Paul -- Paul's eye's were then opened and he was "filled with the Holy Spirit".

And in Acts, Peter said Ac 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Now do you think this promise is limited only to who the Apostles interacted with? Doesn't the Lord still call today or has He stopped? But if He is still calling today, then the promise is still available.

Excellent point, thanks! Do you have a reason for why there are no apostles as Paul states in 2 Cor. 12:12?