Where are the potholes in the road before me ?

[MyKidsDaddy]

I want to say this Christmas MAY go on record as being the best ever. My wife has decided / considered that she will work on our marriage. After 6 months of separation, she finally admitted to an affair that I highly suspected all along.

My questions for the forum.... just what are the potential pitfalls and potholes in this long road in front of us? I know you may not know all our details, but 22 yrs of marriage, 6 months separation (she moved out), and now, her first inclination toward giving it a second try.

I'm leary of just "trying". I told her that we probably would not have married in the first place if we were just going to "try" to make it work back then.

As far as the affair.... He had more money, time, than I did. But he did not have 5 kids and 22 years or history with her. (not that I'm taking any of that for granted). She said he was boring. And that scares me a little, because she has said the same of me.

She renewed her apartment lease for another 6 months just a few weeks ago. I thought at the time that I was ready to quit within the next 30-60 days if she did not indicate any intention of reconcilliation. Now, she's considering reconciling. I really believe that prayers are being answered. I'm feeling good that she is still in her apartment. I was not ready for her to come back home, and she doesn't really want to come back to the house we were living in. My prayer request is that she and I seek, find, and follow God's will. I do not want to mess up what has the possibility of a terrific ending.

Looking forward to all comments

MKD

 

[ido]

I think it's good that she has renewed her lease. Use this time of additional separation to seek the counseling and healing that your marriage needs. A DivorceCare group, as well as individual/couple counseling with a marriage counselor would be two really great ways to start on the road to recovering your marriage.

The key for you is going to be deciding if you can forgive the affair and move past it without holding it over your estranged wife's head. All of your hard work to get back together will be for naught if either of you is keeping a mental/emotional score card.

I will be praying for your reconciliation.

 

[FaithfulWife]

You know--you may want to speak to Million Pieces about some of the pitfalls. However there are a couple of potholes I can think of right off the top of my head. Usually the loyal spouse is literally DEVASTATED by the disloyal spouse's behavior, and the disloyal one has no idea how much damage they've done. So what happens is that the loyal one feels a little TINY bit like "you owe it to me to fix the damage you did" and often wishex their spouse would come back and sort of beg them to come back.

Meanwhile the disloyal spouse RARELY feels very sorry and if they do, it's moreso like, "I'm sorry that had to hurt you but I needed it to grow as a person" (or something like that) which just makes a loyal spouse want to punch something.

Okay--sooooooo you two CAN NOT return to "the way it was" because that marriage was broken. I'm not going to point fingers and blame here, but as I see it, you didn't make the money that makes her feel secure nor spend the time with her that a marriage needs and you neglected her. This made an environment where an affair could happen. You are responsible for that. She, on the other hand, was responsible to know her own weaknesses to temptation, and it was HER job to protect you and honor her covenant. She made the choices and all along she should have said no and thought more of the harm she was doing to her children than she did of her own pleasure.

So I would PERSONALLY advocate that you spend some serious time figuring out what you do that withdraws from her love, what she would like you to do to add to her love, and figure out how to make that a priority BEFORE SHE RETURNS. Secondly, I would advocate that before you even THINK about letting her return, that she show an appropriate acceptance of personal responsibility and some humbleness (but don't grind her nose in it). I like to call it willingness to be 100% transparent and accountable with her phones, her calendars, her time and all her plans. She should have nothing that she hides from you. If you see that...then I'd suggest next that she begin figuring out what she does that withdraws from your love, what you would like her to do to add to your love, and figure out how to make that a priority BEFORE SHE RETURNS.

There ya go. Little road map. It can be done but it can get bumpy! And you know MKD, you can always PM me and we can talk more.


~FaithfulWife

 

[Million Pieces]

WOW MKD, Congrats!! That's a HUGE development! What a wonderful feeling hmm??

FW, I'm so honoured that you thought of me to advise him. I'm afraid that I might not be able to say much to help, except the same old "pray and trust" thing. But essentially, that's what it comes down to! YOU can't fix this, SHE can't fix this, GOD fixes it.

I gotta say, the one thing you can do to allow God to work His miracles is... become a better man of God. Seriously, your own relationship with God will make the journey so much better!! DON'T worry and stress about HER relationship with God, that's between them, you work on YOURS. That's what is between you and God.

Pray for your wife, pray for her as a woman, as a child of God and as a Wife in general terms. Give thanks for her in your prayers, even if it's being thankful that she's still married to you, even just for today.

Ok, so practical terms... you may have questions for her, similar to questions I've had for BlackJeans67 (my dh is a new member here but hasnt' posted for a couple of weeks), regarding the bare bones facts of her behaviour and her affair. Think VERY carefully when you are considering asking her anything, ask yourself first "WHY do I feel the need to know this?" Be willing to allow her time to process her guilt and remorse about it. She may or may not feel a whole lot of remorse right now, but THAT'S OKAY. God will work in her spirit, and it WILL come.

The biggest thing I am up against is removing myself out of my dh's issues and stuggles right now. He has a lot of baggage, and a lot of really messed up thinking that brought him to having a number of affairs over the years. I have had to deliberately remove myself from his issues, in order to be his confidant and supporter. I realize that his issues involve and affect me, but this is about HIM right now, and HIS growth.

Another thing I want to very strongly suggest is that you prepare yourself, and make yourself a "safe place" for her to fall when she eventually does. This is specific advice that dear Sister FW gave to me just a couple of weeks ago, and wow, has it made my whole outlook change. It may take some time, but you can prove to your wife that your love is constant, it won't change, she doesnt' have to fear your anger or judgement when she opens herself up to honesty. Some of what she may tell you will most definitely be hurtful, that's unavoidable. As long as she doesn't go into it expecting that you will just smile and nod and say, "oh, that's okay!", you're off to a better start. But you must learn to temper your anger, your disapointment, your hurt, and simply be a loving place for her to safely and lovingly tell the truth.

You will have good days, you will have bad days. You'll have very tender loving and encouraging days, and you'll have worse days then even now. Your thoughts will fluctuate between loving her absolutely, to mistrusting every word she says. I got wonderful advice from my boss of all people. You have to draw that line in the sand, and say "right here, and no farther. We live forward of THIS line, from TODAY onward. Everything behind that line stays there." It's a huge commitment to make to release those past things and leave them there in the past. It's not easy, let me tell ya! I still drag up some of those things in my mind, and have to deliberately remind myself to put it back in the past where it belongs. From this point onward, it's about truth, about faithfulness.

God can and will do miraculous things between you! You'll be constantly amazed at the turn of your heart, and the turn of her heart when you see how God changes her thoughts toward you and turns her heart toward Himself!!

Sorry if this post seems so scattered. There's so much that I can tell you I just can't type fast enough to keep up with the thoughts as they come to mind!! LOL PM me if you need to vent or ask anything. God bless my Brother!!

 

[MyKidsDaddy]

Thanks FW, MP for the thoughtful replies. I need to collect some thoughts. I'm trying to discern how the holiday nostalgia, emotions, may be playing in the recent events.

 

[Million Pieces]

Absolutely understandable. Take your time, you've got all the time you need to make the RIGHT decisions.

 

[drpepper101]

I would say you first need to find out if the issue just isn't new rich guy told her he isn't going to support her, it was a sex thing and that's it. Now she wants to go back because she needs access to your money to maintain a standard of living.

 

[MyKidsDaddy]

I would say you first need to find out if the issue just isn't new rich guy told her he isn't going to support her, it was a sex thing and that's it. Now she wants to go back because she needs access to your money to maintain a standard of living.

I've wondered that a bit myself. She tells me that they went out to eat and to the movies alot. I can attest to the out to eat...she complains about gaining weight but keeps eating. And yes she has put on a few #'s (20. her guess) since the separation. (Btw, I haven't said anything about her weight in 15+ years. And she knows that her weight doesn't bother me, but realizes that her complaining about it w/o DOING anything does. And I don't say anything about that either.)

He did call her asking if she was okay after her meeting with him to tell him goodby. Don't know if he has called any since then.

She tells me that the rich guy says "I've waited all my life for someone like you". He was hoping that we would get a divorce. He got a bit upset when I sent her flowers and balloon for her birthday. I was a day+ early so that I could send them to her work. (hindsight...I basically beat him to it.) At the time, I did not even think he was much in the picture. Once earlier I sent her flowers on her first day at the new job (new restaurant) he claimed I was "Marking my territory".

If he wanted to help her financially, he could have done it. Don't know if he would not help, or she was to embarrassed to ask, or if she would feel like a kept woman, or something of the sort.

Right now I'm only paying for things that support our kids. (youngest 2 at the house with me). I will pay for the agreed upon gifts that she purchased for the kids at Christmas. I will pay a bit more as a sign that I care, but not to enable her to please herself with someone else on my dime.

The whole $ issue just irks me. I've tried to be financially responsible and my reward is her actions. Makes me wonder if I should have behaved like the thieves on WallStreet.

I did ask her..."The first guy had muscles, the second one "looked like the first one", and this third (??) one had money... What happens when the next guy has both muscles and money?" ....I know, I better get to the gym and the employment ads. Actually, I've been doing the gym since Jan 06. I'm not MR Atlas, but I've improved significantly. As for employment opportunities...jobs are scarce. I'm trying to keep as much consistency as is possible in the 9 yo and 12 yo lives. Together we could swing all the bills, but she would not be able to be on her own then.

MKD

 

[Million Pieces]

MKD, stop. Just stop. It's not about how THEY are better than YOU, it's not about what you're doing or not doing physically. It's what is meeting HER emotional and spiritual needs. Hey, Pam Anderson can get cheated on, it's got nothing to do with how much money, how beautiful or whatever. Every one of my husband's affairs were with women who outweighed me by 50+ lb. easily, without a single exception.

This comes from HER mind. She has emotional triggers that are not being met at home, she will make her excuses why she needs to go somewhere else. You need to be able to talk to her and find out what she's feeling she's missing from you, what she is unsatisfied with in herself and her situation. she may need to learn to fill those things in herself, and with God, and not the temporary, superficial lust of other men.

 

[MyKidsDaddy]

MKD, stop. Just stop. It's not about how THEY are better than YOU, it's not about what you're doing or not doing physically. It's what is meeting HER emotional and spiritual needs. Hey, Pam Anderson can get cheated on, it's got nothing to do with how much money, how beautiful or whatever. Every one of my husband's affairs were with women who outweighed me by 50+ lb. easily, without a single exception.

This comes from HER mind. She has emotional triggers that are not being met at home, she will make her excuses why she needs to go somewhere else.

I understand what you're saying. I realize that I will not be able to meet all her expectations in the physical and financial areas. The aspect of "take care of yourself" comes to mind regards my previous post. I've been working on both my inside and outside, physical-mental-spiritual self. Its really has been a worthwhile exercise, no pun intended.

You need to be able to talk to her and find out what she's feeling she's missing from you, what she is unsatisfied with in herself and her situation. she may need to learn to fill those things in herself, and with God, and not the temporary, superficial lust of other men

Now this is the difficult part. We have had these talks, but she cannot or will not give a reason or an idea of what I'm not able to fulfill. I've read the book on "5 love languages", but most of my actions have not been successful. I would attribute most of that to her being involved with another man. I have this idea that she believes in the Cinderella story and that her Knight in Shining Armor is on his way to save her from me.

She has stated that she feels 90% of the changes have to come from her. I tend to agree with her on that one.

I realize she has a lot to 'figure out'. I'm working on "not holding my breath" while she is figuring.

A little background...she was reared in a fairly strict 'religious' family. Youngest of 10, absent dad due to workplace accident from age 2 til 12. She has made the comment that all her life she was made to feel that she was not good enough to merit heaven (from her mother and their church mostly) so at this point in her life she figures "what the heck, if i'm gonna burn, might as well have fun before they light the fire".

Another comment she makes..."I love you, but I'm not in love with you". She is waiting for those "In Love Feelings" to come back before she gives me a chance.

MKD

 

[ido]

Does she know when or why the "in love" feeling went away? I know that when I was at the end of my marriage, I was very aware of the entire process when I was falling out of love with my ex. I tried desperately to reverse it but he refused to make the changes on his part that was key to that happening (he was unfaithful and verbally/emotionally abusive).

If your ex can identify when/why she started to fall out of love with you, the answer to repairing the relationship might be right before her.

 

[MyKidsDaddy]

Does she know when or why the "in love" feeling went away? I know that when I was at the end of my marriage, I was very aware of the entire process when I was falling out of love with my ex. I tried desperately to reverse it but he refused to make the changes on his part that was key to that happening (he was unfaithful and verbally/emotionally abusive).

If your ex can identify when/why she started to fall out of love with you, the answer to repairing the relationship might be right before her.

I can say that 5 years ago she lost weight (from 185 down to 135 ) SHe looked great. Sadly, the two wardrobe changes were straining our budget and I did not handle this correctly (hindsight). She got a lot of attention from my brother (to this day he is still chasing her) and that was a major factor in his divorce. I made a terrible comment on our 19th anniversary...something to the effect "I hope we make it to # 20". Four weeks later she was starting her first affair, Totally cluesless on what was happening...he (not the brother) just made her feel so special. At that point I was just a 'controlling jerk'. In her eyes, I tossed her out to the trash pile and bf#1 came by to pick her up and dust her off. Since then, I've could have saved the planet, and she would not have cared.

We almost worked through affair #1, but she started emailing him again (after ~ a year of no contact) wanting to be "just friends". I told her that would be not be good for our marriage. We have spiralled downward ever since. She finally moved out saying "Something's got to change". Her actions were not to be considered as 'changeable' things. It had to be all me.

MKD

 

[Million Pieces]

The two of you are not working at this form the same side of the fence. She is now where my DH was about 90 days ago. This has to start fro her heart too. Like any other addiction, she has to WANT to change it. And that starts with identifying that a problem exists at all, and it appears so far that she's not willing to do that.

A lot of prayer. Get a lot of praying people behind you. Just pray.

 

[FaithfulWife]

MKD, stop. Just stop. It's not about how THEY are better than YOU, it's not about what you're doing or not doing physically. It's what is meeting HER emotional and spiritual needs. Hey, Pam Anderson can get cheated on, it's got nothing to do with how much money, how beautiful or whatever. Every one of my husband's affairs were with women who outweighed me by 50+ lb. easily, without a single exception.

This comes from HER mind. She has emotional triggers that are not being met at home, she will make her excuses why she needs to go somewhere else. You need to be able to talk to her and find out what she's feeling she's missing from you, what she is unsatisfied with in herself and her situation. she may need to learn to fill those things in herself, and with God, and not the temporary, superficial lust of other men.

AMEN and AMEN to this! I am faithfully married to my dear hubby and I have a newsflash for you. Thinner, younger, richer men have come into my life! And I don't give them a second look because *I* am personally responsible to keep myself faithful to him.

MKD this is not about you bending over backwards and being perfect otherwise she's gonna cheat on you. This is much moreso about you being the man, father and husband that G-d intended for you to be. This is much moreso about you being responsible for the area where you may have failed (and all I'm saying is that we're humans and we do tend to neglect those we live with and love...or get lax).

This is much, MUCH moreso about her also being responsible to be the woman, mother and wife that G-d intended for her to be and you can't do that for her! SHE has to want to do that!!! This is also much, MUCH moreso about her being responsible fore the areas where she failed and doing the hard work that's going to be necessary to fix herself--and you can't do that for her either.

In other words, MKD, I'm not saying that either one of you is perfect here but she's really got a point. It sounds like her idea of love is feeling pursued and that goosey "infatuation" feeling you get when you're a teenager. Also, since her dad was absent when she was little, I bet she craves male attention and goes a little overboard to get it. So a BIG pothole you're likely to face is that she's going to have to mature a little in her definition of what love is and be willing to make some changes--like "I know I'm vulnerable to flirting with men so I need to do this, this, and this because I intend to protect my marriage."

 

[ido]

I can say that 5 years ago she lost weight (from 185 down to 135 ) SHe looked great. Sadly, the two wardrobe changes were straining our budget and I did not handle this correctly (hindsight). She got a lot of attention from my brother (to this day he is still chasing her) and that was a major factor in his divorce. I made a terrible comment on our 19th anniversary...something to the effect "I hope we make it to # 20". Four weeks later she was starting her first affair, Totally cluesless on what was happening...he (not the brother) just made her feel so special. At that point I was just a 'controlling jerk'. In her eyes, I tossed her out to the trash pile and bf#1 came by to pick her up and dust her off. Since then, I've could have saved the planet, and she would not have cared.

We almost worked through affair #1, but she started emailing him again (after ~ a year of no contact) wanting to be "just friends". I told her that would be not be good for our marriage. We have spiralled downward ever since. She finally moved out saying "Something's got to change". Her actions were not to be considered as 'changeable' things. It had to be all me.

MKD

It sounds like you have at least acknowledged the things that you could have handled differently that led up to all that has happened. But, she definitely needs to be the one to stop all contact with other men. This was a sticking point between me and my ex, as well. Our marriage counselor even told him point blank that he needed to cease all contact with the one woman I openly knew about and he said that he had. I found out about a month after that he was still in regular contact with her and was not planning on changing his behavior any time soon. I know how much that hurts and how hard it is to want to even try to trust someone after they've deceived you like that. It's not an easy hurdle to get over. Unfortunately, I never got to see if I could get over it. My ex got violent about a month after that and I decided enough was enough.

I'm praying that your wife soon sees the folly of her ways. Have the two of you been to a marriage conference together since the problems started? I know a lot of failing marriages have begun the mending process during such events.

 

[MyKidsDaddy]

It sounds like you have at least acknowledged the things that you could have handled differently that led up to all that has happened. But, she definitely needs to be the one to stop all contact with other men.

I'm praying that your wife soon sees the folly of her ways. Have the two of you been to a marriage conference together since the problems started? I know a lot of failing marriages have begun the mending process during such events.

Interestingly, this past weekend, she spoke to an elder at the church she used to attend and now I attend on a regular basis without her. He asked her if she would be interested in attending a "Weekend to Remember" marriage conference. She said possibly. I had asked her a few months prior to her moving out. She didn't think it would help then. (Hindsight, she was probably right. She didn't want to admit or stop her behavior)

We went to a counselor once. She claimed I talked to much during the first and only session. She was sure that a counselor could not say anything to convince her to get her 'feelings' back for me. She mentioned going ~4 months ago. I thought she was saying it only to appease me. It was not brought up in conversation again. I thought she would think that I was trying to 'Fix' her.

 

[Million Pieces]

Been there, done that too. Hubby went with me to our pastor for 3-4 sessions, and didn't change a thing, because there were parts of his history he wasn't willing to give up or confess to. She has to do this WHOLE HEARTED. And brother, that HAS to come from her.

I'm realizing that you are wishing for an outcome like mine, and I'm afraid our circumstances are just too different right now to be possible. YOUR heart is in the right place, but the execution is still flawed. Her heart is in the complete wrong place. She will need to have her pride and "self" broken first before anything will be repaired.

 

[ido]

Interestingly, this past weekend, she spoke to an elder at the church she used to attend and now I attend on a regular basis without her. He asked her if she would be interested in attending a "Weekend to Remember" marriage conference. She said possibly. I had asked her a few months prior to her moving out. She didn't think it would help then. (Hindsight, she was probably right. She didn't want to admit or stop her behavior)

That is the conference I was actually thinking of when I asked the question. It's a great conference. I highly recommend it. The thing is - you both have to go into it with a spirit of forgiveness and with a committment to leave the past in the past.

We went to a counselor once. She claimed I talked to much during the first and only session. She was sure that a counselor could not say anything to convince her to get her 'feelings' back for me. She mentioned going ~4 months ago. I thought she was saying it only to appease me. It was not brought up in conversation again. I thought she would think that I was trying to 'Fix' her.

I think that individual sessions are imperative to making marriage counseling work. There are issues that each of you (most likely) would need to address separately with a counselor and then come together for joint counseling, as well. If there are only joint sessions, then one or both of you would either feel like holding back or would feel like the other person is dominating the session.

 

[catlover]

Another comment she makes..."I love you, but I'm not in love with you". She is waiting for those "In Love Feelings" to come back before she gives me a chance.

MKD

That is THE MOST immature line there is-

 

[MyKidsDaddy]

It sounds like you have at least acknowledged the things that you could have handled differently that led up to all that has happened. But, she definitely needs to be the one to stop all contact with other men. This was a sticking point between me and my ex, as well. Our marriage counselor even told him point blank that he needed to cease all contact with the one woman I openly knew about and he said that he had. I found out about a month after that he was still in regular contact with her and was not planning on changing his behavior any time soon. I know how much that hurts and how hard it is to want to even try to trust someone after they've deceived you like that. It's not an easy hurdle to get over.

I'm praying that your wife soon sees the folly of her ways. Have the two of you been to a marriage conference together since the problems started? I know a lot of failing marriages have begun the mending process during such events.

Sometimes I just want to throw up. She was back talking and seeing bf#3 last night. I called the number for the phone bf had given her. I used *67 to block my number intentionally to see if she would ask me about it later. Well...I sent her a txt msg.... "Goodbye" then followed with another, "That way, you'll have no more 'Drama' from me." She called me and I thought about ignoring it but was curious as to what she would have to say. She asked what the txt msg meant. I asked her if she still had his phone. She lied and said no. I replied "That's interesting, are you sure?" She finally admitted she still had it. That she 'tried' to give it back when she told him goodbye on Dec 26. I told her she should have tried a little harder." I added, "I'm done listening to you lie to me." "Before you can be honest with me, you need to figure out how to be honest with yourself. If that takes you x number of days/weeks/ months then so be it, but don't talk to me if your words are coloured in lies".

I'm just so totally exhausted. At this point I don't want to see her, talk to her, or anything. Aaaarrrrrrggggggg.