Where are the miracles???

[PantsMcFist]

...how many more followers would he have if he started parting bath water? If more tangible miracles took place today, Jesus would have more followers...which is what he wants, right?

I think it is less likely that Jesus would have more followers if He did more miracles in modern day. People are going to reject what they see on whatever grounds they can imagine if they don't want to believe.

 

[70x7]

...how many more followers would he have if he started parting bath water? If more tangible miracles took place today, Jesus would have more followers...which is what he wants, right?

Not necessarily. Remember, Jesus ROSE FROM THE DEAD and yet still there were people who did not believe.

 

[Garyzenuf]

Not necessarily. Remember, Jesus ROSE FROM THE DEAD and yet still there were people who did not believe.

I think there may be people who would never accept miracles, but I believe the vast majority of folks would start whistling a different tune if presented with some "called" miracles.

*

 

[70x7]

In the Book of Revelation, it says many times that there will be plenty of miracles and signs of our Lord, but many will rebel and reject Him. (paraphrased of course).

The interesting thing is that these people do not think there is no God, because that part becomes very obvious, but that they refuse to accept Him.

So even faced with death and destruction, people will not repent or be willing to the Son of God.
I can find verses if it will help with what I am saying.

 

[pantless rationalist]

The interesting thing is that these people do not think there is no God, because that part becomes very obvious, but that they refuse to accept Him.

So even faced with death and destruction, people will not repent or be willing to the Son of God.
I can find verses if it will help with what I am saying.

Not to correct your misunderstanding of atheism twice in one day, but I really can't help myself.

Saying that "people do not thing there is no (sic) God, but ... they refuse to accept Him" is akin to saying that Christians don't disbelieve is Allah, they just practice Christianity because they don't want to accept the strict teachings of Islam. It's a really silly claim.

 

[selfinflikted]

I think we're all forgetting something very important about "miracles". Miracle, magic, supernatural, or whatever other name you want to call it was simply a way for explaining the unexplained in a very unenlightened age. With mankind's ever-expanding knowledge base, we have very detailed explanations for a great many things that happen in our world today. There really is no need for magic or miracles any more and that, friends, is why we don't see "miracles" like they did in biblical times.

 

[PantsMcFist]

I think we're all forgetting something very important about "miracles". Miracle, magic, supernatural, or whatever other name you want to call it was simply a way for explaining the unexplained in a very unenlightened age. With mankind's ever-expanding knowledge base, we have very detailed explanations for a great many things that happen in our world today. There really is no need for magic or miracles any more and that, friends, is why we don't see "miracles" like they did in biblical times.

This is partially true, but there are still miracles (in the maximally improbable, physics defying sense) which occur, just not in the West. There is still a great need for "miracles" in most of the world, and they do still occur. The world, as a whole, is far less enlightened than you presuppose.

 

[selfinflikted]

This is partially true, but there are still miracles (in the maximally improbable, physics defying sense) which occur, just not in the West. There is still a great need for "miracles" in most of the world, and they do still occur. The world, as a whole, is far less enlightened than you presuppose.

Why is the West miracle immune? Unless you mean that it's because the West is more enlightened than other places in the world... in which case, I would also partially agree.

 

[70x7]

Not to correct your misunderstanding of atheism twice in one day, but I really can't help myself.

Saying that "people do not thing there is no (sic) God, but ... they refuse to accept Him" is akin to saying that Christians don't disbelieve is Allah, they just practice Christianity because they don't want to accept the strict teachings of Islam. It's a really silly claim.

Hold on now. I think you misread..or I miswrote, but in either case, I was saying that the question of the existance of God is a non-issue at this point. God has very much shown himself and its the conscience refusal of Him that is the point.

Can you show me where allah is coming back? Can you show me his miracles? Can you show me where he died for our sins? No to all the above!!!
First you have to prove to me the existance of allah and how he died for my sins in order for me to reject him. Its really not a silly claim if you take the time to read what it says.

 

[PantsMcFist]

Why is the West miracle immune? Unless you mean that it's because the West is more enlightened than other places in the world... in which case, I would also partially agree.

"Enlightenment" has really little to do with it. Don't be so quick to congratulate yourself. It has everything to do with material needs, and access to medical technology.

 

[Garyzenuf]

Hold on now. I think you misread..or I miswrote, but in either case, I was saying that the question of the existance of God is a non-issue at this point. God has very much shown himself and its the conscience refusal of Him that is the point.

No, its conscience refusel to believe something with zero evidence, its only common sense.

Can you show me where allah is coming back? Can you show me his miracles? Can you show me where he died for our sins? No to all the above!!!

Can you show me where Jesus is coming back? Can you prove Jesus's miracles? Can you show there is even a thing called sin? No to all the above.

First you have to prove to me the existance of allah and how he died for my sins in order for me to reject him.

Ditto Jesus, christians invent original sin to create a need for a savior, then after the council of Nicea; presto changeo..a savior.

Its really not a silly claim if you take the time to read what it says.

I have, and rejected it as wishful believeing.

*

 

[tcampen]

The natural and spontaneous remission of what was thought to be terminal cancer may or may not be a miracle, so we'll have to chalk such up to the "we're not sure category." I strongly suspect medical science will someday be able to provide a conclusive scientific explanation, rather than the various hypotheses we have today.

Instantly restoring a limb that had been amputated from the body many years earlier? NowTHAT would be a miracle.

It's funny we never get clear miracles, though. They always seem to exist in the murky land of not sure, and some people attributed a miracle to replace what is just not known at the moment. It's all very interesting.

 

[pantless rationalist]

Hold on now. I think you misread..or I miswrote.

Either case is completely possible. If you wish to clarify, by all means do.

I was saying that the question of the existance of God is a non-issue at this point. God has very much shown himself and its the conscience refusal of Him that is the point.

But it isn't a non-issue. If it were we wouldn't be experiencing the surge of atheism that is taking place in the West.

Can you show me where allah is coming back? Can you show me his miracles? Can you show me where he died for our sins? No to all the above!!!
First you have to prove to me the existance of allah and how he died for my sins in order for me to reject him. Its really not a silly claim if you take the time to read what it says.

You can't hold one religion to claims made by another religion. It doesn't really make much sense to do so. My point was, though, was that Muslims have just as much reason to believe Islam as Christians do Christianity; saying non-believers (in Christianity) are simply denying the Christian God (with full knowledge of his existence) is akin to saying that followers of religion X only practice religion X because they don't want to deal with the god of religion Y. It's completely arbitrary.

 

[selfinflikted]

"Enlightenment" has really little to do with it. Don't be so quick to congratulate yourself. It has everything to do with material needs, and access to medical technology.

Not sure I'm following you...

 

[selfinflikted]

Hold on now. I think you misread..or I miswrote, but in either case, I was saying that the question of the existance of God is a non-issue at this point. God has very much shown himself and its the conscience refusal of Him that is the point.

Can you show me where allah is coming back? Can you show me his miracles? Can you show me where he died for our sins? No to all the above!!!
First you have to prove to me the existance of allah and how he died for my sins in order for me to reject him. Its really not a silly claim if you take the time to read what it says.

How is the existence of god a non-issue? God has not shown himself, as you claim. There is nothing to consciously refuse - I see no clear evidence that he exists period. If you are witholding evidence, please present it.

 

[brightmorningstar]

In fact some do see the miracles happening, including doctors seeing the medical ones. Ever tried recording miracle on a health document?
The problem is that we see many miracles in places where there are no medical facilities for many people and no food, water, or money. We see less but some in countries like the UK and America. We also see, as it might appear in the NT record that there are people who don’t see miracles happening in front of their eyes.
On the other hand there will always be false claims as well.
No, those who test God to see miracles are unlikely to see them as it requires faith to know what answer God is giving or what miracle He will perform.

BUT, I had a healing miracle in response to prayer as I was coming to faith, and I was very angry indeed at first that something had happened I had trouble in denying.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

I find that when I talk to Christians, they feel that one of the main things that separate their faith from all others, is the miracles that have happened in the name of their God and Jesus Christ. They feel that miracles are the validation of his supernatural status.

My question is...Why don't we still see miracles today???

The bible claims medical miracles, instant property transformation in liquids, and the overcoming of this worlds natural laws.

All of these were tangible miracles, why don't we still see these happening? If God wanted to validate his existence with miracles that you could see with the naked eye, why did people 2,000 years ago get the advantage of seeing these when we are expected to believe it just because it's in a book that's only about 50% factual in the first place...

Your thoughts??

. . . why did people 2,000 years ago get the advantage of seeing these . . .

Jesus happened in a tiny lfar off ittle fragment of the Roman World in Roman Judea.

The Israelites and their miracles happened in only a short period of time or time frames.

The miracle is that there are still people calling themselves Jews and Christians since the miracles that are reported to have happened, happened so long ago and to so few people, except the Sinai/wandering experience.

What miracles are you referencing?

Didn't the Apostles reference this when the quoted Jesus talking to "doubting" Thomas?

 

[selfinflikted]

BUT, I had a healing miracle in response to prayer as I was coming to faith, and I was very angry indeed at first that something had happened I had trouble in denying.

Do you believe that had you not prayed for a healing, the healing would not have occurred?

 

[70x7]

No, its conscience refusel to believe something with zero evidence, its only common sense.


Can you show me where Jesus is coming back? Can you prove Jesus's miracles? Can you show there is even a thing called sin? No to all the above.

Ditto Jesus, christians invent original sin to create a need for a savior, then after the council of Nicea; presto changeo..a savior.


I have, and rejected it as wishful believeing.

*

wow. ok.

So you are saying that CHRISTIANS created sin?

Let me ask you then, what is right and wrong? I mean, you obviously are not believing the christian faith, so where do you pull your basis from as far as standards? How do you know what is right or wrong? Call it what you want, but regardless of your belief system (or lack there of) you do wrong things!!! In religious context, that is called sin.

Not only yourself, but obviously quite a few responders here have missed the point of the post.
I was saying that the Book of Revelation says that even the physical apperance of Jesus Himself will not turn every mans heart into accepting Him, even though they will know He is the Son of God.

"Look, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of Him." (1:7)

So at THAT time, the question of Jesus being real is a NON-ISSUE.

 

[selfinflikted]

Let me ask you then, what is right and wrong? I mean, you obviously are not believing the christian faith, so where do you pull your basis from as far as standards? How do you know what is right or wrong? Call it what you want, but regardless of your belief system (or lack there of) you do wrong things!!! In religious context, that is called sin.

Don't be silly. You do not get your moral values from the bible any more than the next guy. You have a preconcieved set of morals, and you pick and choose from the bible those that already match your own.

Not only yourself, but obviously quite a few responders here have missed the point of the post.
I was saying that the Book of Revelation says that even the physical apperance of Jesus Himself will not turn every mans heart into accepting Him, even though they will know He is the Son of God.

"Look, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of Him." (1:7)

So at THAT time, the question of Jesus being real is a NON-ISSUE.

And what will you do when this time never comes? It's been more than 2k years. How long must we wait for this sort of "proof"?