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That's good then that Christians have eyewitness accounts and Jesus himself as objective
evidence, along with personal experiences as well as scientific evidence for the biblical history.
True or False: In eternity past, there was nothingness.
- True
- False
- Other (please elaborate)
Unless there's no distance.The question makes no sense. Time is not nothing. It is a measurement of motion or change in an entity.
At 1.3 posts per day, I don't think you have to worry about me derailing a thread of yours, Nithavela.
And for the record, it takes at least two to derail a thread, does it not?
Dysert said:The point of this thread is to try to clarify what others, particularly atheistic evolutionists (i.e., atheists who believe in evolution), believe about some specific items related to creation & evolution. I'm not interested in debating or arguing. I'm simply trying to get clarification of beliefs.
What I'll do is post a question, ask those interested to answer it, ask another question, wait for answers, and so on. After the questions & answers have been posted I'll try to summarize what has been discussed.
I hope there's enough activity here to provide a nice sample of atheistic evolutionary beliefs. Please stay on topic (i.e., whatever the current question is), and please do your best at providing as clear an answer to the questions as possible (with whatever commentary you wish to provide).
Thanks to all who participate!
freezerman2000 said:AV,please do not try to derail a non mudslinging thread..it has been to long since I have seen a thread not degenerate into ..yayaya,my religion says it aint so,that settles it..
Please restrain yourself and follow to the OP's wishes.
AV1611VET said:Okay ... sorry.
I'll bow out.
I'm still hung up on the definition of "life", but I'm intrigued with the oak/acorn thing. We'd probably agree that the acorn is not alive, and yet under the right conditions it brings forth life. So I'd say that the acorn has "potential life". The oak reproduces, not by spawning another oak, but rather by spawning acorns. So life can yield potential life (or life), and potential life can yield life. Which do you think arrived on the scene first -- the oak or the acorn?That does sound like you're asking about abiogenesis.
But let me take a different tack, since you seem to be focusing on organic and inorganic, or alive and not alive.
Mighty oaks from little acorns grow. The mighty oak is a zillion times more massive than the acorn from which it came. The mighty oak is all alive. So where did all that living stuff come from? From the air, from the soil, from things that were not alive. It didn't happen in the absence of all life (that would be abiogenesis), but biological processes convert dead matter into living matter.
True or false: Several billion years ago there existed a formation of mass and/or energy that eventually spawned the material for the known universe.
- True
- False
- Other (please elaborate)
True or false: Several billion years ago there was a cataclysmic event (e.g., an explosion or rapid expansion) of the formation of mass and/or energy (from the previous question). This event resulted in the dispersion of all matter and energy that exists in the known universe today.
- True
- False
- Other (please elaborate)
Other: The question is word salad.True or False: In eternity past, there was nothingness.
- True
- False
- Other (please elaborate)
Other: The question is word salad.
Sounds good to me.True or false: Several billion years ago there existed a formation of mass and/or energy that eventually spawned the material for the known universe.
- True
- False
- Other (please elaborate)
That, too, seems to be an ok layman´s description of what science has found.True or false: Several billion years ago there was a cataclysmic event (e.g., an explosion or rapid expansion) of the formation of mass and/or energy (from the previous question). This event resulted in the dispersion of all matter and energy that exists in the known universe today.
- True
- False
- Other (please elaborate)
Please indicate which statement(s) you think is/are true regarding "the event" mentioned in Question 3:
1. The Event resulted in the formation of all inorganic matter and all energy only.
2. The Event resulted in the formation of all inorganic matter, all organic matter, and all energy only.
(Feel free to reword the statements if you don't understand what I'm getting at. It's not meant as a trick question.)
As far as I am concerned, I am sensing that you overestimate my commitment to these scientific findings. They are neither "where I am coming from", nor do they have any significance for anything that´s important to me.At this point I guess I should apologize for the vagueness (or "sloppiness") of the wording of the questions. On the one hand, I want them to be a bit vague because I don't want to introduce any bias by asking the questions. On the other hand, I'm not a scientist (obviously) so I can only use the language of the layman. If you find the wording sloppy, please feel free to qualify your answer by elaborating and using unsloppy language.
And I also remind everyone that I have no ulterior motive in asking the questions. I have no intention of dropping some climactic "conclusion" in here based on the answers. I am just trying to make sure I understand where "you guys" are coming from without getting bogged down in technicalities, counter questions, etc. So far I think it's going well (for me at least). So thanks for your contributions.
Ultimately, number 2, I suppose. The actual big bang did not produce organic matter, but obviously if "The Event" is true, as I have agreed it to be, and there is now organic matter, at some point, organic matter was formed.
To be clear, though, the organic matter was not formed BY The Event directly.
The event resulted in everything that came after the event. I´m not sufficiently scientifically well-versed to tell you in which order, though.Please indicate which statement(s) you think is/are true regarding "the event" mentioned in Question 3:
1. The Event resulted in the formation of all inorganic matter and all energy only.
2. The Event resulted in the formation of all inorganic matter, all organic matter, and all energy only.
(Feel free to reword the statements if you don't understand what I'm getting at. It's not meant as a trick question.)
I'm with you there!If science would come to a different consensus tomorrow it wouldn´t be any skin off my nose.
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