When you eat from it you will CERTAINLY DIE

[tonychanyt]

ESV, Genesis 2:

17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.

Literal Standard Version:

but from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, you do not eat from it, for in the day of your eating from it—dying you die [מֹ֥ות תָּמֽוּת׃].”

you will surely
מ֥וֹת (mō·wṯ)
Verb - Qal - Infinitive absolute
Strong's 4191: To die, to kill

die.”
תָּמֽוּת׃ (tā·mūṯ)
Verb - Qal - Imperfect - second person masculine singular
Strong's 4191: To die, to kill

Solomon pronounced the same expression in 1 Kings 2:

36 Then the king sent and summoned Shimei and said to him, “Build yourself a house in Jerusalem and dwell there, and do not go out from there to any place whatever. 37 For on the day you go out and cross the brook Kidron, know for certain that you shall die [מֹ֣ות תָּמ֑וּת]. Your blood shall be on your own head.”

Later, Shimei disobeyed and left Jerusalem. He did not die on the day he left. He died after he returned to Jerusalem (v. 46).

These were examples of Hebrew word doubling. They were for word emphasis. Back then, there was no boldface or italics to highlight the word. For emphasis, they repeat the keyword in its absolute form.

For Adam and Eve, what kind of death was this? In what sense did Adam and Eve certainly die or dying-you-die?

Before they ate the forbidden fruit, their knowledge of good and evil came only from God. As soon as they ate, they acquired their own way of determining good and evil. Right away, they thought being naked was not good. God had not thought that. Their consciences were separated from God. In other words, their consciences died to God.

22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever”.

They experienced dying-you-die in that they were not to live forever.

Genesis 5:

5 Altogether, Adam lived a total of 930 years, and then he died.

Like Shimei, Adam eventually died physically after the disobedience. In Genesis 2, God pronounced a punishment of death certainty by the Hebrew expression "dying you die" even though the physical death did not happen on the day of disobedience.

 

[Laureate]

There is so much more entailed here, yet those who attain unto something are given more to attain unto.

….A Mortal you shall Die… is the first and self evident imparting.


The children of Abvraham know that many refer to the Sleep of Abvraham as a state of Death, yet not everyone believes the report, Awake, Awake says the prophet, but to whom is he speaking to?

The scriptures reveal that we are the Sleeping Forefathers, the first …Awake… pertains to the Resurrection of Mortals, via literally being physically born again, and the second …Awake… pertains being Spiritually born again.

Adam was cast into a Deep Sleep, and in Yeshayahu 29 Yahuah declares that he has poured out upon us the Spirit of Deep Sleep, this is where the forefathers Sleep, and Awake from.

John was supposed to turn the hearts of the children towards their resurrected forefathers.

 

[Laureate]

Isaiah 51:8-9
For the moth shall eat them up like a garment, and the worm shall eat them like wool: but my Righteousness shall be for ever, and my Salvation from generation to generation.

Awake, awake, put on strength, O ARM of Yahuah; awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Are you not the one who cut Rahab, and wounded the dragon?

Abvraham אברהם A(B)R(H)M is the ARM of Righteousness referred to here, and Yeshuah is the Salvation.

Where it speaks of …for ever and ever… and…from generation to generation… it is referring to those who become pillars (permanent structures) in the temple, and those whose position in the temple is yet temporal.

Revelation 3:12
Whom soever overcomes will I make a Pillar in the Temple of my Alohym, and he shall No Longer Depart:

The same concept is conveyed in Yeshayahu 56:4-5

For thus saus Yahuah unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;

Even unto them will I give in My House and Within My Walls a Place and a Name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be Cut Off.

Referring to Studs in the Walls, again permanent structures.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

The moment Adam and Eva sinned, they died spiritually. They lost the connection to God, and they startrd to die physically also.

That is why Jesus said we have to be born again. Born spiritually, connected to God. The Son reconciles us to the Father.

 

[tonychanyt]

Adam was cast into a Deep Sleep

Reference?

 

[Divide]

What kind of death is this? In what sense did Adam and Eve certainly die or dying-you-die?

Before they ate the forbidden fruit, their knowledge of good and evil came only from God. As soon as they ate, they acquired their own way of determining good and evil. Right away, they thought being naked was not good. God had not thought that. Their consciences were separated from God. In other words, their consciences died to God. Along with that:

It was a spiritual death. Men are tripartite beings also like God. Men are spirit-soul-body. Before the fall of man, we probably wore our spirit on the outside of our bodies and glowed like Jesus did at the transfiguration. SO when we fell, the spirit died and stopped glowing. We probably lost many divine abilities also? Adam & Eve did not know they were naked because of the spirit/light covering. It was only after they fell that they knew they were naked.

God was the only one who had the knowledge of evil, but who takes the kids to a horror movie? God would not. They got into mischief on their own. Their consciencees were not dead to God. Man has always had a conscience, it is a function of the spirit. Even unsaved men do have a spirit, for within it is the breath of life and we live. But that spirit is spiritually dead and needs to be born again spiritually. The Holy Spirit bears witness to our spirit which means He talks to our spirit. Can the Holy Spirit talk to an unbeliever? Convict them? Of course He can, that's His job. Then our spirit speaks to us through the voice of our conscience (if an unbeliever). Man has always had a conscience and it always knows the correct thing to do. (Because He speaks to God personally!)

But we hear that voice.
(carnal mind): Look at that small guy walking towards me that just came out of the bank, I could beat him up and take his money!...
(Conscience): That's not right don't be like that to people! You cant do that...

We all have those different voices in our head. The conscience (spirit) never sleeps. And it always says to do the right and Godly thing, always. These are the two angels on the shoulder, one bad, oe good. The carnal mind and the spirit or conscience.

The only people that do not have a conscience is those that have disobeyed their conscience so many times that it's like they have seared it with a hot iron. But I don't think it is the majority. I could be wrong, but I dunno.

 

[Divide]

They experienced dying-you-die in that they were not to live forever.

They died spiritually. It was a spiritual death, not a death in the flesh. No more fellowship with God walking and talking to him. Bummer. Praise the Lord it's different now!

 

[tonychanyt]

SO when we fell, the spirit died and stopped glowing.

Verse?

 

[tonychanyt]

No more fellowship with God walking and talking to him.

Cain talked to God later.

 

[FenderTL5]

Genesis 2:17 New International Version


Literal Standard Version:


you will surely
מ֥וֹת (mō·wṯ)
Verb - Qal - Infinitive absolute
Strong's 4191: To die, to kill

die.”
תָּמֽוּת׃ (tā·mūṯ)
Verb - Qal - Imperfect - second person masculine singular
Strong's 4191: To die, to kill

This is an example of Hebrew word doubling for literary emphasis.

What kind of death is this? In what sense did Adam and Eve certainly die or dying-you-die?

They experienced dying-you-die in that they were not to live forever.

The certainty of physical death.

 

[Divide]

Verse?

It makes sense. If we were created in God's own image and likeness.

When does it say that Adam & Eve noticed that they were naked? After the fall and the spiritual death. They lost their spiritual covering. Then they knew that were naked because they could see it.

I could pull up scripture that says God has a covering of light, He wears light like a garment. But I suppose you are familiar with that?

Created in His image. Before the fall. Why wouldnt we have a covering of light also? Probably just like Jesus was at the mount of Transfiguration.

I wonder if wus born again believers can transfigure like Jesus did. I bet we can but we just dont know how. Are not close enough to God?

 

[Divide]

Cain talked to God later.

God never really completely stopped talking to man but after the fall, it wasnt like it used to be!

Do you walk with God (in person) in the cool of the evening? I havent ever seen Him that I can remember. That kind of fellowship, like a friend. Hanging out together. Where you can see Him.

 

[Daniel9v9]

It speaks of a double death:

(1) Death, sickness, and decay entered into creation, and from that judgment, Adam and Eve began their process of bodily dying. The Scriptures talk about this kind of bodily death in verses like 1 Corinthians 15:21-22; 1 Corinthians 15:26; Hebrews 9:27; Hebrews 11:5; John 8:24

(2) Adam and Eve died a spiritual death also, which means to not fear, love, and trust in God above all things. The Scriptures talk about this kind of death in verses such as John 5:24; Ephesians 2:1; Colossians 2:13; 1 Timothy 5:6; John 3:5-7

The Bible also contain passages that combine bodily and spiritual death: Romans 5:12; Romans 6:23; Romans 8:6; John 11:25-26; Revelation 1:17-18

Both bodily and spiritual death together culminate in a final or permanent death, which is condemnation. This the Scriptures call the second death in Revelation 20:14. All evil, death itself, and spiritual death are consumed by the second death.

So the punishment and consequence of sin is bodily death, spiritual death, and then ultimately damnation, which is often called death in the Scriptures. Death then, is both temporary — we experience physical death and the effects of it, corruption, sickness, and decay — and spiritual death — we don't naturally fear, love, and trust God as we should. And this is why Christ came to redeem us, and that we may live in repentance and faith in Him, who has won for us life: Spiritual life, in that by the power of the Holy Spirit, we begin to fear, love, and trust in God, and eternal life in the resurrection. Thanks be to God!

 

[BNR32FAN]

They died spiritually. It was a spiritual death, not a death in the flesh. No more fellowship with God walking and talking to him. Bummer. Praise the Lord it's different now!

I disagree because if you read what God said to Cain and Cain’s reaction to God speaking to him it appears that Cain wasn’t the least bit surprised that God was talking to him. What I gather from that conversation is that God spoke to him often.

“Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.” Cain told Abel his brother. And it came about when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him. Then the Lord said to Cain, “Where is Abel your brother?” And he said, “I do not know. Am I my brother’s keeper?””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4‬:‭6‬-‭9‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[BNR32FAN]

God never really completely stopped talking to man but after the fall, it wasnt like it used to be!

Do you walk with God (in person) in the cool of the evening? I havent ever seen Him that I can remember. That kind of fellowship, like a friend. Hanging out together. Where you can see Him.

“You are My friends if you do what I command you. No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15‬:‭14‬-‭15‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[Divide]

I disagree because if you read what God said to Cain and Cain’s reaction to God speaking to him it appears that Cain wasn’t the least bit surprised that God was talking to him. What I gather from that conversation is that God spoke to him often.

“Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.” Cain told Abel his brother. And it came about when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him. Then the Lord said to Cain, “Where is Abel your brother?” And he said, “I do not know. Am I my brother’s keeper?””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4‬:‭6‬-‭9‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Yeah but they were the first family and Cain may not remember his dad hanging out with the Lord, but they had just fallen and were still closer to the Lord than we are today. The further we got away from God, the less fellowship we had with Him. After Jesus came and did His work on the cross we are able to have the same type of face to face fellowship that Adam & Eve once enjoyed.

Hey that gives me an idea. If the Lord knew us before we were in the womb, then Babies which are newborn...have just from the Lord! Have you ever asked a less than week old baby about heaven or God? Or Praise God in front of them? I bet they have a good reaction.

 

[Laureate]

Reference?

Genesis 2:21
And Yahuah Alohym caused a Deep Sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

It is important to note that Adam was already a hermaphroditic Whole, being both Male and Female in the Image and After the Likeness of Alohym;

And it was the Spirit of Alohym (the Wife of our Youth) that said, I will make for him (Adam) a Suitable Helper…., now we all naturally assume that Alohym is making reference to Eve, however the Mother of all the Living aka the Spirit of Alohym was actually referring to her self.

We serve a Jealous Alohym, and when provoked to Anger Hashatan (Satan) enters the picture, for when Alohym handed Adam over to his own flesh, bone and imagination, neither he nor the Woman were Ashamed, even though their ‘Nakedness’ [a biblical idiom for Shame] had been exposed to them, and this is where Hashatan enters the narrative.

In Yeremiyahu we learn that און Iniquity/Perversity comes before Sin and Transgression.

Perversity is a (twisted) Misapplication, Misusing and or a Misinterpretation of something, thus if eating from the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil was the Sin, what was the Perversity?

Aside from Adam desiring to be a little more like the Animals, the narrative only allots for a Misinterpretation.

We know that Eve did not Believe that we were created in the Image and Likeness of Alohym, or else she could not have been tempted to do anything for the sake of becoming Like Alohym.

We also know that Eve mistook the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil for the tree of Life, for she Saw the tree as being desirable to Make one Wise, however proverbs makes it pretty clear, Wisdom is a tree of Life.

Perhaps it would also help to understand what the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil actually represents, we know that it is in one sense a recycle bin for Adam (Mankind) in that it would ultimately return us back to the Source of our substance.

Herein lies the purpose of the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and what it represents, for Yahuah Alohym is הוהי ‘Existence’ itself, and there is Nothing nor Anyone (existing) besides him, and when he made Adam in his Image and Likeness with the intent to be Fruitful and Multiply, he knew there would eventually be Many of us, and no longer just one.

This is the primary distinction between Adam (Many), and his Maker (One), for it is not Evil for Alohym to be Selfish, because there is only himself, it is not Evil for Alohym to be Self Willed or Self Righteous, for there is Nothing in Existence that does not Belong to him, and he alone Knows Everything, which Qualifies him to Know What is Best, and Why it is Best.

On the other hand, it is not Good for a Member of his Body to be Selfish, for we are not Alone, nor is it Good for us to Lean upon our Own Limited Knowledge and Understanding, etc., etc., you get the point.

 

[Laureate]

To us, the two trees in the midst of the garden are the tree of Pride and Humility, and the tree of Grace.

For it is Good to be Humble, however Humility [Meekness] is the act of maintaining a Humble disposition even when equipped with great ‘Wherewithal’, (which is often the crux and catalyst for Pride).

Self Awareness is the beginning of Knowledge of Good and Evil, and ירא ‘the Conscientious Awareness’ of יהוה Yahuah [Existence] is the beginning of Wisdom.

….lest he put forth his hand and Eat also of the tree of Life [Grace] there is no other means for anyone to Live Forever.

 

[childeye 2]

We serve a Jealous Alohym, and when provoked to Anger Hashatan (Satan) enters the picture, for when Alohym handed Adam over to his own flesh, bone and imagination, neither he nor the Woman were Ashamed, even though their ‘Nakedness’ [a biblical idiom for Shame] had been exposed to them, and this is where Hashatan enters the narrative.

In Yeremiyahu we learn that און Iniquity/Perversity comes before Sin and Transgression.

Perversity is a (twisted) Misapplication, Misusing and or a Misinterpretation of something, thus if eating from the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil was the Sin, what was the Perversity?

The serpents' words spoken to Eve below project a vain image of god. A corrupt image of the Most High imagined by the serpent creature; that would explain where perversity comes from.

5 And the serpent said to the woman, Ye shall not surely die. 6 For God knew that in whatever day ye should eat of it your eyes would be opened, and ye would be as gods, knowing good and evil.

 

[Laureate]

The serpents' words spoken to Eve below project a vain image of god. A corrupt image of the Most High imagined by the serpent creature; that would explain where perversity comes from.

5 And the serpent said to the woman, Ye shall not surely die. 6 For God knew that in whatever day ye should eat of it your eyes would be opened, and ye would be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Genesis 3:7-7
____And the eyes of them both were opened….
____And Yahuah Alohym said, Behold, the man has become as one of us, to know good and evil:

The Perversity which ushers in one’s Sin and Transgression occurs in their own Heart.

Satan is only given jurisdiction over the children of Pride.

There are Two trees in the midst of the garden, but Eve only perceived (and referenced) One tree in the midst of the garden.

Eve also misquotes the instructions pertaining to the forbidden fruit, both Adding and subtracting from the commandment.

The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil represents the specific Characteristic Traits and Attributes of Yahuah Alohym which are not Good for individual Souls to assimilate into their psyche (heart and mind);

Pride, Self Righteousness, Self Will, Self Reliance, Selfishness, etc., are the only aspects of Alohym which we did not inherit when we were created, we inherited those propensities when they ate from the forbidden tree, the very same propensities which we are now instructed to Circumcise from our hearts and minds.

A Tree is Known by the Fruit it Bears.

The Lie which H’Shatan administered was very Subtle, taking advantage of Eve’s ignorance, lack of discernment and disbelief in what Alohym actually said, and he built upon that a premise suggesting that Alohym was withholding something (as Good as the tree of Life) from us, and how Eve could become Like Alohym, (which mind you is a Good thing), by simply eating from the tree in the midst of the garden.

He did not Lie when he said, your eyes will be opened, nor did he Lie when he said, you will become as Alohym to Know Good and Evil, he Lied when he said, you surely shall not Die.

When we Die our Spirit is removed from the Flesh, wherefore the people of the World refer to such Spirits as Dead people, when in fact they are the Living Spirits of Souls which have departed from their Flesh.

Whereas we became separated from the Spirit of Grace, the Grace that equated us unto being One with Yahuah Alohym, who happens to Know everything;

With Grace we are not encumbered by knowing every little thing, but because we know the one who is everything, Grace gives us an unction to Know anything we need to Know in any given setting, this however only works with the Trust and Reliance of Faith and the absence of Pride and it’s cache of Lies.

Instead we became All knowing, Mr. and Mrs. Know it alls, that evidently Knew too much yet not nearly enough, we became the Living Dead, as one who Walks in their Sleep, yet is unaware that they are Asleep.

Ignorance, misquoting Alohym, lack of discernment, poor judgment and lack of faith (trust and reliance) got us into this mess, wherefore it is the Wisdom, Righteousness, Truth and Faith of the actual Word of Alohym that delivers us from this mess.