When will Jesus Return?

[bromius]

I saw a similarly titled thread on another forum but I suppose I wasn't supposed to post over there so It got deleted.

However this question is so vitally important that I wanted to repost my thoughts on it over here. I hope that is okay.

So here goes:


The Messiah is ALREADY here on Earth. How do I know this? That is a question for another thread but, bear with me, I'm very serious about this topic and I will explain what is likely causing a delay in his appearance.

First some preliminaries:

Jesus was/is the SON OF MAN and the SON OF GOD. The son of man portion is his SOUL every person has one. The son of God portion is his spirit we all have one of those as well however Jesus of Nazareth's Spirit was the HEAVENLY FATHER. At some point in Jesus's life the Spirit of the Heavenly Father indwelt the MAN Jesus of Nazareth. Supplanting Jesus's Spirit with his own. This will be the case with second coming as well. But remember, Second Coming... Not the man (a new; different man) but the Same Heavenly Father and Holy Spirit, hence the same truth.

Note: This is not the Holy Spirit descending on him when he was baptized. The Holy Spirit is PROVIDENCE!


Now, As I postulated elsewhere,

The Messiah (name is unknown) the second coming of CHRIST (anointed one) will be a different soul than Jesus of Nazareth had. However, the Messiah will have the same indwelling spirit(s) of the Heavenly Father and the Holy Spirit but he will have a new name - not Jesus but you can call him Jesus I'm sure they won't mind.

Note: The Heavenly Father and the Holy Spirit are the two witness and the two Tree's of Life in the book of Revelation. Just like in Eden although details are sorely lacking in Genesis so one has to back track.

Remember: The Flesh profits nothing - ashes to ashes and dust to dust but the SOUL is eternal. The SOUL doesn't have a face but it is unique to every human on the planet. AS i mentioned elsewhere Jesus of Nazareth's SOUL is still sitting at the right hand of the Father.

However, because Jesus of Nazareth was speaking on behalf of the Heavenly Father, the Father's words are what he spoke. Just like the second coming. New soul different person same INSPIRATION same TRUTH. Same end result.

elsewhere I forwarded that the Christ was probably mulling over his probable course of action:

1. He can come back and destroy all the wicked (himself) as in HELLFIRE and BRIMSTONE Earth shattering, Heaven shaking judgement.

or

2. He can come with PURE LOVE and compassion and empathy even for the wicked who he will not resist and will kill him just like they Did the body of Jesus of Nazareth 2000 years ago. Then when the Messiah is killed his SOUL and SPIRIT depart his body and those who have experienced the Love of the Truth; those who recognize his words; "My Sheep hear me they know my voice."(the remnant of Israel - Those who are saved) and the Elect (sealed of God), will be killed along with him. "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

Then they and he will be caught up in the air!



The difference between these two avenues is that in option one the Messiah's soul goes into everlasting contempt. He will not inherit the Kingdom. The Spirit of the Heavenly Father will depart his body and return to Heaven. But the Soul of the Messiah will not.


If the second coming's soul is not saved then no one gets out (Eden; Heaven) as he MUST be Righteous in order to: "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me." Save the remnant of Israel and the Elect :O
This means that Messiah CANNOT judge. Only when he is lifted up (The Rapture) will the Holy Spirit (Providence) Judge the Earth i.e. 7 year tribulation, WW3, utter chaos the likes of which have never before been seen on Earth. No bueno



However, in option 2. The Messiah makes it to everlasting life. I'm not joking about this interpretation and if you would like scriptural support feel free to ask and I will be more than happy to support my assertions.

Thank you for giving me an opportunity to share the TRUTH as it was given to me

 

[Bob Carabbio]

I will be more than happy to support my assertions.

Better get started if you seriously intend to sell this fantasy to folks who know what the Bible says.

 

[bromius]

I would be more than happy to.

Where would you like me to start? Because these are the mysteries of God, and thus they are hidden from those who have not received the Spirit of Truth, it may take some time to demonstrate how I arrived at my conclusions scripturally

You know the whole, "And the secret of God was upon my Tabernacle"

 

[bromius]

"if you seriously intend to sell this fantasy to folks who know what the Bible says."


Brother you haven't read anything yet. This is just the tip of the iceberg. I haven't even found the thread I can post in which deals with the political climate in the World. i.e.

What is the abomination that causes desolation?
What is the Holy Place that it defiles?
Who is he?
Who's the anti-christ?
Who's the false profit?
Who's the Dragon?
Who's the Beast?
Who's Babylon?

If you thought what was written above was tough to digest YOU really are in for an eye opening SHOCK :O if I ever get around to answering these questions. Remember the answer to many of the prophecies were sealed unto the time of the end (Dan 12:4).
I will give you hint though... If you aren't on your housetop right now you may be doing something wrong

 

[ViaCrucis]

This is all, of course, wildly heretical.

Jesus is called the Son of Man because He's human, but also because "Son of Man" is a messianic title, as we find in the book of Daniel where the Son of Man is brought up before the Ancient of Days and given power, dominion, and an everlasting kingdom. By referring to Himself as the Son of Man Jesus is identifying with the Son of Man figure in Daniel.

Jesus is called the Son of God because as the One begotten of the Father before all ages He is the Son of the Father, as we confess in the Nicene Creed. The Father is Father because He has a Son, and that Son is the One who takes on flesh and becomes human in the womb of the Virgin Mary. For this reason He is the eternal Son of God made man.

As a human being Jesus is fully human, that means, both body and soul. Apollinarius tried to argue that instead of a human soul the Logos filled that position; however St. Gregory Nazianzus rightly understood the danger in this, and so in his work against Apollinarius wrote, "Whatever is not assumed is not healed," That is, if Christ is only partly human, then we have only a partial salvation. In God becoming human it is our entire humanity that is healed, saved, and reconciled to God and thus our salvation is perfect in Christ, by and in whom we have been justified, sanctified, and in the future resurrection of the body glorified. We therefore have a complete salvation because we have a completely human Savior. For in the union of Divinity and humanity God has taken upon Himself our weakness, fragility, and indeed our very sin and death, and rising from the dead brings life and redemption to our humanity; and what has been accomplished in Christ is, by God's own promise, ours by grace.

And it is this God-Man, Jesus Christ, who having been raised from the dead--truly and bodily--ascended, and is now seated at the right hand of the Father, with all power, authority, kingdom, and dominion. And it is this same Jesus Christ who will come again, on the last day, to judge the living and the dead and bring with Him that everlasting kingdom. When He comes there won't be any guesses, for "every eye shall see Him", for when He comes the dead shall rise "at the last trumpet, in the twinkling of an eye" the dead shall rise, and then "we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them". And all things shall be handed over to the Father, God will make all things new. The old is gone, the new has come, and God shall be all in all.

And, even if one wants to ignore all of that, there's still this:
"Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it." - Matthew 24:23

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

"if you seriously intend to sell this fantasy to folks who know what the Bible says."


Brother you haven't read anything yet. This is just the tip of the iceberg. I haven't even found the thread I can post in which deals with the political climate in the World. i.e.

What is the abomination that causes desolation?

The shedding of blood in the Temple during the Jewish-Roman War in 70AD, probably more specifically the atrocities committed by the Sicarri whose zealotry was such that they murdered the very priests themselves in the Temple. Nothing so heinous had ever been seen in the Holy Temple since the days of Antiochus IV Epiphanes whose outrageous policies and ultimately the sacrificing of a pig to Zeus resulted in the Maccabean Revolt against Seleucid tyranny. But if that weren't enough, when the Romans did enter the city, the destroyed it all--the Temple was gone. And, following the Bar Kochba War over half a century later, Jerusalem become a Roman colony, and Hadrian ended up erecting a temple to Jupiter over the Temple Mount. It doesn't get more "abomination that causes desolation" than that.

What is the Holy Place that it defiles?

As in the "man of sin" St. Paul mentions? This has been debated for centuries. The "man of sin" himself is most likely Nero, however.

Who is he?

Not a "he", but a "what". And the "what" is, as already mentioned, the desecration of the Temple in Jerusalem.

Who's the anti-christ?

There have been, even as St. John said, been (and will be) many antichrists.

Who's the false profit?

There have been many false prophets. However the false prophet of the Apocalypse has often been interpreted as being the last Antichrist, though the Beast has also been said to be the last Antichrist. Though more than likely the Beast was a reference to Emperor Nero, whose name in both Hebrew and Greek adds up to six hundred and sixty-six. The use of gematria was a very common practice in antiquity, by both Jews and Greeks. And so assigning a number to a person's name was common, we have a piece of graffiti preserved in Pompeii which reads, "I love her whose number is 545". Since in these ancient writing systems assigned numerical values to letters of their writing systems, it was a simple thing to simply add the letters together to get a numeric value. By using the Aramaic/Hebrew form, NRWN QSR we get a value of 666; and perhaps quite importantly, when the final Nun is dropped we get NRW QSR, a value of 616--which also happens to be one of the very ancient variant readings of the text.

Who's the Dragon?

Satan. I think that much is probably pretty obvious.

Who's the Beast?

Again, most likely Nero.

Who's Babylon?

A figurative reference to ancient Rome, the center of Roman imperial power. The text of the Apocalypse goes out of its way to tell us that Babylon--the name given to the "Great harlot" that rides the purple beast--is a city, specifically a city that rests on seven hills and is basically the center of the world. While it's possible to find other cities that had or have seven hills, Rome was pretty famous for its seven hills and also as the "Eternal City", the economic, political, and military center of the ancient [western] world.

So St. John in his Apocalypse, which he wrote while in exile on the island of Patmos off the coast of Asia, addressed the bishops of the seven churches in the province of Asia during a time of major crisis. The overall message of the Apocalypse is that God's victory has already been accomplished in Christ, and in the end all the oppressive powers of this world, and all the scheming and plots of the devil, will amount to nothing, because in the end "the kingdoms of this world have become the kingdom of our Lord and of HIs Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever." (Revelation 11:15). The end of all wickedness and worldly power is destruction, and God's saints and martyrs will be vindicated. As such, the Church should take comfort in the hope of their faith, and not despair even if the "dragon" rages against us, and even if "Babylon" slaughters us--it is Christ who has overcome and has the keys of Hades, it is Christ who is the Lamb worthy, it is Christ who is there at the end of all things, who already has all victory.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Gabriel Nuncius]

Jesus is never returning. It is The Father who returns for Judgement, to destroy evil, and to establish Paradise on Earth.

 

[Peter John]

Jesus is never returning. It is The Father who returns for Judgement, to destroy evil, and to establish Paradise on Earth.

Wow! I thought you would be a Jehovah's witness, saying about paradise, until I saw the cross on your avatar, as JW's believe Yeshua was crucified on a stake. I wonder how you will wriggle out of all the verses talking of Yeshua's return!

 

[ViaCrucis]

Jesus is never returning. It is The Father who returns for Judgement, to destroy evil, and to establish Paradise on Earth.

Except, of course, this is wrong. According to the Scriptures themselves, as well as two thousand years of unanimous and consistent Christian teaching and confession Jesus Himself is returning.

It would make no sense to say that the Father returns, because the Father never came. Return, by its very definition, means being present, then absent, and then present again. Because it is the Son, Jesus, who walked among us and then ascended, it is Jesus who returns. So to even speak of the Father "returning" is nonsensical word salad.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[FreeinChrist]

ADVISOR HAT

This thread is closed. This is not the forum for theological discussions.​