When was Jesus really born?

Quasar92

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The Great and Wonderous sign of Rev.12:1-2 represents the exact time of Jesus birth in addition to the sign of the Son of Man in Mt.24:30. The event take place once every year as seen in the middle east.

The woman of Rev.12:1-2 represents the virgin Mary, with the sun amidst her body, representing her pregnancy. The moon at her feet represents the specific window of time this event took place.

The only time of year this event can be witnessed, is in the first month of the Jewish year, Tishri 1, or in September, at or around the Autumnal Equinox on the 22nd or 23rd, in our Gregorian Calendar. As seen from the middle east, at or around the Jewish Holy Convocation - feast and festival - of Rosh Hashanah, their New Year - which they call "a year of new beginnings." It is also the last fall feast and festival of their year which is also called the "feast of trumpets." They also believe it marks the anniversary of the day God began His creation of the world.

The woman's body is in the Constellation of Virgo (The virgin). She represents the virgin Mary, of Israel, and has a crown of twelve stars on her head - representing the twelve tribes of Israel. The sun is amid her body, revealing her pregnancy.

Her head is about 10% in the previous Constellation Leo (The Lion - of Judah) and the crescent moon is at her feet, about 10% into the Constellation Libra (The scales of righteousness and judgement).

With all the heavenly bodies in motion, this event can take place only between a time frame from 7:15 to 7:30 P.M., a 15 minute window, when the sun is setting and the moon is rising into the early evening sky.

So when Jesus talks about His return at His Second Advent in Mt.24:30, at the sign of the Son of Man, it will be at that specific time of year - and time frame, described in Rev.12:1-2.

Go to the following for more information on this subject:

http://www.tccsa.tc/articles/star_susan_carroll.pdf By Susan Carroll, and :

http://www.askelm.com/star/star006.htm By Dr. Ernest L. Martin, PhD, who wrote the book:

"The Star That Astonished The World." Which also reveals what the Star of Bethlehem was, from the years of studies by scientists and astronomers working together on it.

The pagan origin of December 25th originated.

Nearly all aspects of Christmas observance have their roots in Roman custom and religion. Consider the following admission from a large American newspaper (The Buffalo News, Nov. 22, 1984): “The earliest reference to Christmas being marked on Dec. 25 comes from the second century after Jesus’ birth. It is considered likely the first Christmas celebrations were in reaction to the Roman Saturnalia, a harvest festival that marked the winter solstice—the return of the sun—and honored Saturn, the god of sowing. Saturnalia was a rowdy time, much opposed by the more austere leaders among the still-minority Christian sect. Christmas developed, one scholar says, as a means of replacing worship of the sun with worship of the Son. By 529 A.D., after Christianity had become the official state religion of the Roman Empire, Emperor Justinian made Christmas a civic holiday. The celebration of Christmas reached its peak—some would say its worst moments—in the medieval period when it became a time for conspicuous consumption and unequaled revelry.”

Consider these quotes from the Catholic Encyclopedia, 1911 edition, under “Christmas”: “Christmas was not among the earliest festivals of the Church…The first evidence of the feast is from Egypt.” Further, “Pagan customs centring round the January calends gravitated to Christmas.” Under “Natal Day,” Origen, an early Catholic writer, admitted, “…In the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast or held a great banquet on his birthday. It is only sinners (like Pharaoh and Herod) who make great rejoicings over the day on which they were born into this world” (emphasis mine).

The Encyclopedia Americana, 1956 edition, adds, “Christmas…was not observed in the first centuries of the Christian church, since the Christian usage in general was to celebrate the death of remarkable persons rather than their birth…a feast was established in memory of this event [Christ’s birth] in the 4th century. In the 5th century the Western church ordered the feast to be celebrated on the day of the Mithraic rites of the birth of the sun and at the close of the Saturnalia, as no certain knowledge of the day of Christ’s birth existed.”

There is no mistaking the origin of the modern Christmas celebration. Many additional sources could be cited. It was 300 years after Christ before the Roman church kept Christmas, and not until the fifth century that it was mandated to be kept throughout the empire as an official festival honoring “Christ.”



Quasar92


 
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Ken Rank

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It is likely based on the shift Elizabeth's husband had in his priestly duties that, using simple math (knowing when the service of aviyah was, how far along Elizabeth and Mary were, etc.) that he was born anywhere from late August through late September. There is no way to prove a day... I suspect he was born on the first day of Sukkot (Tabernacles) and circumcised on the last and Great Day of Sukkot, but again, we can't prove it.

As for December 25th... there are pagans origins to the day itself but clearly whatever meaning once was connected to this day(s) is NOT in the minds of Christians who celebrate his birth at that time. While agree there is no chance he was born in December, there is also no reason to deem the day as "pagan" (and the Christians who observe that day in the process) because all that does is cause strife and division... something God "HATES" (see Prov. 6:16-19... pay special attention to vs. 19). Instead of us trying to prove how everyone else is wrong about everything, we should spend more time walking out was is correct and allow others to see the Lord in how actions and hear him in our words.

Shalom.
Ken
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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As for December 25th... there are pagans origins to the day itself but clearly whatever meaning once was connected to this day(s) is NOT in the minds of Christians who celebrate his birth at that time. While agree there is no chance he was born in December, there is also no reason to deem the day as "pagan" (and the Christians who observe that day in the process) because all that does is cause strife and division... something God "HATES" (see Prov. 6:16-19... pay special attention to vs. 19). Instead of us trying to prove how everyone else is wrong about everything, we should spend more time walking out was is correct and allow others to see the Lord in how actions and hear him in our words.

Shalom.
Ken

Shalom Ken! I have often wondered if "Christmas" was a gentile replacement for Hanukkah (Kislev 25).
 
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Ken Rank

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Shalom Ken! I have often wondered if "Christmas" was a gentile replacement for Hanukkah (Kislev 25).
You know what is interesting about that... I have heard claims that the shift in the calendar means that December 25th once landed on the solstice and now doesn't. But I find no real evidence for that and besides, the two main pagan holidays that covered that time of year were not one day events, but rather week long. So... I doubt the 25th, wherever it fell, was a specific day that stood out from the others.

So I have wondered if... since we know the early church would rid newly converted towns of any pagan history but leave some culture so as not to rob them blind of who they are... didn't pick the 25th as the birthday of the light of the world... because Kislev 25 was the miracle of light. :) No proof... just something I have suspected.

Hope all is well... blessings.
 
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Anto9us

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I don't know when it was -- but, yes, Shepherds were at the Manger.
But not Wise Men -- all the Nativity scenes are wrong to include the Magi.

They found toddler Jesus in a house -- bringing three types of gifts -- how many Wise Men there were is unknown.
 
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Ken Rank

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I don't know when it was -- but, yes, Shepherds were at the Manger.
But not Wise Men -- all the Nativity scenes are wrong to include the Magi.

They found toddler Jesus in a house -- bringing three types of gifts -- how many Wise Men there were is unknown.
He was probably closer to 2 at the time, like you said, "a toddler in a house" not a "baby in a manger." Manger scenes... one of two big pet peeves for me. The other? Ark depictions that have only a pair of "all" animals. :)
 
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Copperhead

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I generally have held to a birth time of around the Feast of Tabernacles.

JB's dad was serving in his priestly course of Aviyah when he was told he would have a son. All the courses served during high festivals and then 1 week, twice a year. Aviyah is the 8th course. The religious calendar starts in spring. The time I have generally held Aviyah was serving would have been late June on our calendar.

Mary gets her angelic visit that she is going to bear the Messiah. She immediately goes to see Elizabeth, her cousin who is JB's mother. Elizabeth is in her 6th month of pregnancy, so this time frame seems roughly December, and possibly Hanukkah. Feastival of Lights, Yeshua is the light of the world.

JB is born roughly time of Passover. Yeshua said that JB came in the spirit of Elijah. Even Jews today know that Elijah must precede the coming of Messiah and set a place at the Passover meal for him and have the children go to the door to see if Elijah has arrived.

Fast forward to Yeshua's birth 6 months after JB. I hold that it probably is Feast of Sukkot (Tabernacles). A Sukkah is a temporary shelter. The stable for animals often is called a sukkah. Yeshua was born in a Sukkah. He is God come to Tabernacle among us.

Not saying it is the only correct assumption. Just that has worked for me for many years. Either way, Christmas trees, Yule logs, and a host of other stuff associated with Christmas does have a basis in Babylonian worship. Especially centered around Semiramis and Tammuz.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Fast forward to Yeshua's birth 6 months after JB. I hold that it probably is Feast of Sukkot (Tabernacles). A Sukkah is a temporary shelter. The stable for animals often is called a sukkah. Yeshua was born in a Sukkah. He is God come to Tabernacle among us.

Just an interesting point, all the Eastern Orthodox icons for the birth of Yeshua have Him being born in a cave where animals are stabled. The cave has a hole in the roof where the stars are shining through...a natural Sukkah? :)
 
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Copperhead

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Could be! I also believe that it occurred on the same ground that once belonged to Boaz and Ruth. Just a speculation, but given that the prophecy in Ruth about their line being to David the King and the Messiah, it seems like a fascinating speculation.
 
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iamlamad

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Quasar wrote,
So when Jesus talks about His return at His Second Advent in Mt.24:30, at the sign of the Son of Man, it will be at that specific time of year - and time frame, described in Rev.12:1-2.

What scripture do you use to make the connection between the time of His birth and His return?
 
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