When was He born?

[Henaynei]

Shalom Chaverim,

It seem likely that many here are familar with this information but it also seems a timely season to set it out.

There is much to say that Yeshua was born during the Fall Festival of Tabernacles.
Here is an article which presents much proof, from scripture.

How do you think this should affect normative Christianity - or should it?

What about Messianic Judaism and it's numerous "Khannukah bushes?"
​

 

[SonWorshipper]

Yes, I believe that Yeshua was born during Sukkot. In fact on the first day which is a Sabbath. John makes that pretty clear that He tabernacled amongst us, and also John was witness to the transfiguration which I believe also happened on Sukkot ( will we also be "changed" during that time as well?).



Then following so quickly on the heels of the most solemn day of the year, the day of Atonement, shows a picture here too. It is the most joyous time of the Hebrew year as well as we see that 8 days after the start of Sukkot is Simchat Torah, the joy of the word, now who could that be? I know that it is a Middle Ages "invention" but what better thing to celebrate during this time?



I also would like to see if anyone knows if the Sabbatical years have been recorded ( I know that they haven't always been kept) from Yeshua's time until now, does anyone know what year we would be in the seven year cycle right now?



There are differing views, one of Benedict Zuckermann and one of Ben Zion Wacholder. I think that is pertinent to understanding more about when Yeshua was born.



Reason I am thinking on this is that if Yeshua was born during a Sabbatical year then it would be very appropriate, as the Law ( Torah)would have been read during Sukkot and He is the living Torah.

 

[Superman]

I did some research a few years back on the time of Christ's birth. One research I was impressed with actually attempted to trace back John the Baptist's birth based on his father's role in the temple pertaining to the feasts, and also using Roman history and so on. I don't remember all the details, but yes, he concluded Christ would have been born in September, during the Feast of Tabernacles in the year 4 BC. I agree that makes the most sense.

Christmas as the modern world knows it is utterly pagan, as is Easter. I celebrate it because of tradition, and I'm thankful that His birth is at least recognized at all, even if its surrounded by wrapping paper and sales at the mall.

 

[KelsayDL]

Excellent article Henanei. Thanks for sharing it!

 

[Henaynei]

Excellent article Henanei. Thanks for sharing it!

There is much very good information on Greg Killian's sites for those who are willing to mine :0)

Delighted you appreciated it KelsayDL.

Yes, Superman, I think you will find a source for the documentation to substantiate that view on the web site I referenced :0) Lost of good stuff there - much way too deep for me :0)

 

[Henaynei]

Based on this information, how do you think your celebration of Sukkot should be modified - or should it?

What do you think should or should not happen in MJ congregations around Christmas/Khannukah?? Are "Khannukah bushs" ok? What about folks who call themselves Messianic "Jews" but still celebrate Christmas??

 

[simchat_torah]

Based on this information, how do you think your celebration of Sukkot should be modified - or should it?

Sukkot already has plenty of messianic themes already built in. No modification necessary... sorta like Pesach.

What about folks who call themselves Messianic "Jews" but still celebrate Christmas??

they are christians.

 

[SonWorshipper]

Channukah bushes? I don't think I have one of those.

I think perhaps some hay in the succah and maybe a trough might make some nice decorations though

 

[simchat_torah]

hahaha... i like it.

maybe a random cow and some sheep too?

 

[SonWorshipper]

And a partridge in a pear tree................

Sorry Couldn't help myself!

Don't forget the manure though, authenticity and all, none of that peppermint stick and gingerbread.

Cows and sheep ( love sheep) would be perfect, now to convince my Rabbi of this, ( we set up one large one outside our building ..................................also wondering how the other Jewish population in the neighborhood would see that ( we are located right across from a huge JCC!

 

[Henaynei]

they are christians

LOL - I like the way you think!! Yeah!

Channukah bushes? I don't think I have one of those.

But you've seen them - even reform and some conservative homes have them, and too many MJ congregations - x-mas trees with Judaica decorations.

My idea of abomination, but then I have had to leave congregations because our stand on such things as Torah and Jewish tradition was seen as too unloving - while visiting charis-maniacs from local churches visited and were allowed to weep and wail and co-opt our prayer services without intervention from leadership ("gots ta show love!") when they (the charis-maniacs) had a stated agenda of "setting us straight and teaching us how to *really* love G-d!!

I think perhaps some hay in the succah and maybe a trough might make some nice decorations though
And a partridge in a pear tree................
Sorry Couldn't help myself! (Henaynei - You're forgiven - now go mikveh thyself!)
Don't forget the manure though, authenticity and all, none of that peppermint stick and gingerbread.
Cows and sheep ( love sheep) would be perfect, now to convince my Rabbi of this, ( we set up one large one outside our building ..................................also wondering how the other Jewish population in the neighborhood would see that ( we are located right across from a huge JCC!

WOW - talk about PRIME real estate!! Mazel Tov!!!

 

[simchat_torah]

another prime example arises from MJ'ism:

http://www.worshipmusic.com/7779700242.html

 

[ServingHim]

another prime example arises from MJ'ism:

http://www.worshipmusic.com/7779700242.html

a messianic christmas CD? OY!

 

[simchat_torah]

oh no... it's christmas/channukah

lol...

 

[ServingHim]

oh no... it's christmas/channukah

lol...

Oh, I get it...so as long as some channukah gets mixed in, then its alright.

Hey, kind of like when people at my congregation go out to Denny's right after service on Shabbat. Mix in some of G-d with some of whatever you want and its all good LOL

 

[iitb]

oh no... it's christmas/channukah

I call it "channukmas."

 

[simchat_torah]

hehe, my brother and I refer to it as chrisannukahmass.

lol. great minds do think alike, eh?

 

[simchat_torah]

The track layout really makes me smile:

Angels We Have Heard On High
Shepherd's Song
Little Lamb
Christmas Star
Arise, Shine!
O Come, O Come, Emmanuel
Prince Of Peace
O Come, All Ye Faithful
Traditional Chanukah B'rachot (Blessings)
Mi Y'malel (Who Can Retell)
Chanukah
The Gift Of Christmas
Maoz Tzur (Rock Of Ages) / Hark The Herald Angels Sing
Christmas Medley (Instrumental)


You've got your traditional Channukah blessings which then lead into christmas songs.

intermingled yet she be! (for those who know what I speak of)

 

[ServingHim]

I call it "channukmas."

hehe, my brother and I refer to it as chrisannukahmass.

That is funny, but also really sad when you think about it...that some people see absolutely nothing amiss in this. Wow!

 

[SonWorshipper]

another prime example arises from MJ'ism:

http://www.worshipmusic.com/7779700242.html

Oh no! I have to turn in my free tickets to his concert now. Oy!