When was Christ given dominion and authority over all things?

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GLJCA

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Matt 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.


These verses show that at His resurrection, Christ was given dominion, glory, and His kingdom. His dominion and His kingdom shall not pass away or be destroyed. It was given Him that all people should serve Him and all do whether they like it or not. If God wills it, man will do it. Even the devils and lost people have to do God's will.
No one can resist God's will.

Ro 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Jesus Christ is reigning over His kingdom today. His will is being done through out the earth. His enemies are being conquered and put under His feet by the gospel today.

GLJCA
 

eph3Nine

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Matt 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.


These verses show that at His resurrection, Christ was given dominion, glory, and His kingdom. His dominion and His kingdom shall not pass away or be destroyed. It was given Him that all people should serve Him and all do whether they like it or not. If God wills it, man will do it. Even the devils and lost people have to do God's will.
No one can resist God's will.

Ro 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Jesus Christ is reigning over His kingdom today. His will is being done through out the earth. His enemies are being conquered and put under His feet by the gospel today.

GLJCA
If Jesus is reigning over His kingdom today, He owes us all an apology!

You missed the fact that the KINGDOM program has been SET ASIDE and the KING has been exiled. The ruler today is satan...he is the prince of this world UNTIL the KING returns to finish the program with Israel and set up His promised KINGDOM.

Today we are under His HEADSHIP and members of His BODY during an unscheduled, unprophesied program which WAS a mystery until revealed by Paul.

Unfortunately, most professing believers today still think and act as tho its a mystery to them still.
 
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thereselittleflower

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I would hardly be so presumptuous! If Jesus is NOT reinging over His kingdom today, and over the Kings of the Earth today, the the scriptures are false, for John clearly tells us that HE IS reigning over the Kings of the Earth, and was in the 1st century!

Revelation 1:5

and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loveth us, and loosed us from our sins by his blood;
That is in the present tense, BEFORE the John's vision in Revelation starts. :) . . . It is occuring in real time . . He is actually the ruler NOW of the kings of the earth, as of the time John penned those words.

Nothing has changed. .He didn't go from being "the ruler of the kings of the earth" in the 1st century, to not the ruler of the kings of the eath today, only to be made ruler of the kings of the earth in the future . . that is nonsensical! :)



Peace
 
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eph3Nine

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John and Revelation are books which tell us ABOUT the Nation Israel and the Kingdom program in both times PAST and AGES to COME.

That KINGDOM has been set aside and INTERUPTED by the MYSTERY revealed program of the AGE of GRACE. This is something that is IN the scriptures but that you refuse to accept as TRUE.

Jesus is in EXILE as the KING, and the KINGDOM has been set ASIDE.

Christ as the HEAD of the Body, the RISEN LORD of Glory is resident and alive in those members of His Body today. However, satan is still the "prince and power of the air", and "the prince of this world", as well as the god of this world. Scripture tells us so.

Your whole Bible is a story of how God intends to RESTORE His rightful rule and reign as "The MOST HIGH GOD , possessor of heaven and earth" which satan has usurped.

See what you miss when you dont know the BIG PICTURE?
 
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thereselittleflower

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John and Revelation are books which tell us ABOUT the Nation Israel and the Kingdom program in both times PAST and AGES to COME.

eph, please, take time to look at the scriptures we present to you rather than simply brushing them under the carpet.

The words in Revelation I quoted are in the introductory material, well BEFORE he ever starts to share his vision. . .

He is talking to those to whom he wrote to plainly, not in vision.

And plainly he states that "Jesus is ruler over the kings of the earth" at the very time he penned those words.



He clearly is speaking of the present time when he penned those words, and not some future time, just as Jesus said, of the present time in which He spoke these words:
"All power in heaven and earthhas been given unto Me."
These are not speaking of something yet to come, but of something that has already been accomplished and is on going.


That KINGDOM has been set aside and INTERUPTED by the MYSTERY revealed program of the AGE of GRACE. This is something that is IN the scriptures but that you refuse to accept as TRUE.

Jesus is in EXILE as the KING, and the KINGDOM has been set ASIDE.

Christ as the HEAD of the Body, the RISEN LORD of Glory is resident and alive in those members of His Body today. However, satan is still the "prince and power of the air", and "the prince of this world", as well as the god of this world. Scripture tells us so.

Your whole Bible is a story of how God intends to RESTORE His rightful rule and reign as "The MOST HIGH GOD , possessor of heaven and earth" which satan has usurped.

See what you miss when you dont know the BIG PICTURE?

Again, all you are doing is presenting your own ideas, nothing more.

Jesus is not an "exiled" king!

That is not a biblical teaching!


To be an exiled king means that one has been DETHRONED! and forced into exile by a SUPERIOR POWER!

Are you actually saying that a power, SUPERIOR to Christ's, DETHRONED Christ and sent Him into exile ? !!! :eek:


That is purely an invention of yours and entirely unbiblical!

in order to believe something as bizarre as this, one has to IGNORE the scriptures that are part of the bigger picture eph . . .which is what you are forced to do. . .


You have to ignore that Jesus Himself said that

"all power in heaven and earth has been given unto me"
Jesus was given this "all power" while He was still with us!

Now, in order to be an "exile king", that means that someone had to TRIUMPH OVER Him and STRIP Him of this "ALL Power"!

Do you realize what you are saying?

You are saying that satan TRIUMPHED over Jesus, and stripped Him of His "ALL Power" He said was given to Him, and sent Him into exile!


That is preposterous eph! Yet that is exactly what you are suggesting by claiming Jesus is a king "in exile"!


satan did not triumph over Him and strip Him of His power. .



Jesus triumphed over satan! despoiling him (ie stripping him of his power) openly!
having despoiled the principalities and the powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Col. 2:15
satan and the fallen angels have been DESPOILED, not Jesus.


You have simply confused issues . .

Jesus is king.

He is ruler over the kings of the earth just as John told us.

He has already been given all power in heaven and earth, just as Jesus Himself told us. .

He is away from the earthly portion of His kingdom, but He is not an exile king. . .

His power and authority is in full force, and

He still reigns over the kings of the earth, just as He was doing at the time of John in the 1st century.


Only by ignoring these scriptures can one come up with the outlandish idea that Jesus is a king "in exile" . . .



Peace
 
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eph3Nine

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Again, you do not see the big picture and you accept as true the cleverly devised explanations of our enemy instead of rightly dividing the Word of truth.

Of course John was writing about the PRESENT world he was living in...it was a JEWISH PROGRAM in times PAST, there WAS NO BODY OF CHRIST at that time. The Body of Christ came into BEING under the "preaching of Jesus Christ ACCORDING TO THE REVELATION OF THE MYSTERY which was kept secret from ages past"

John was a minister to the CIRCUMCISION...his words have to do with the CIRCUMCISION....Revelation has to do with the CIRCUMCISION as well...they are PROPHETIC BOOKS.

OUR present program , where the KING OF THE JEWS is exiled and waiting to RETURN to set up His promised KINGDOM TO THEM, has to do with the AGE of GRACE and Christ Jesus as LORD and HEAD over His body, which is the church of today.

Two programs...which you have meshed together beyond recognition and to your own obvious confusion. Rightly dividing DEMANDS that you keep SEPARATE what God never meshes together.
 
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thereselittleflower

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I see that you are totally failing to deal with the scriptures which plainly contradict your position and claims. .

They have been presented to you . . it is you choice whether you deal with them legitimately, or ignore them and dismiss them . ..

Frankly, I would tremble at being so cavalier with the very clear words of My Lord . . .



Peace
 
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eph3Nine

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Again, you do not see the big picture and you accept as true the cleverly devised explanations of our enemy instead of rightly dividing the Word of truth.

Of course John was writing about the PRESENT world he was living in...it was a JEWISH PROGRAM in times PAST, there WAS NO BODY OF CHRIST at that time. The Body of Christ came into BEING under the "preaching of Jesus Christ ACCORDING TO THE REVELATION OF THE MYSTERY which was kept secret from ages past"

John was a minister to the CIRCUMCISION...his words have to do with the CIRCUMCISION....Revelation has to do with the CIRCUMCISION as well...they are PROPHETIC BOOKS.

OUR present program , where the KING OF THE JEWS is exiled and waiting to RETURN to set up His promised KINGDOM TO THEM, has to do with the AGE of GRACE and Christ Jesus as LORD and HEAD over His body, which is the church of today.

Two programs...which you have meshed together beyond recognition and to your own obvious confusion. Rightly dividing DEMANDS that you keep SEPARATE what God never meshes together.
These ARE the concepts given to Paul for we the Body of Christ...and ARE the Words of the LORD to us today.

Accept or reject...that is YOUR choice as well.

Many are "minding earthly things" and taking for themselves the promises made ONLY to Israel....which is forbidden, and which "makes the Cross of NONE EFFECT."
 
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thereselittleflower

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And repeating yourself, while still totally failing to deal in any legitimate way with the scriptures that contradict your position does not make the flaws in your position go away, or what these scriptures you are ignoring go away either.


Why is it that you are ignoring Jesus' clear words that

"All power in Heaven and over the earth has been given to me.

Matthew 28:18
:scratch:



Why are you ignoring John's clear words, true for the time he lived in that
and from Jesus Christ, who isthe faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loveth us, and loosed us from our sins by his blood;

Revelation 1:5
:scratch:



Why are you insisting that Jesus is an exile king, which means He has been dethroned by a hostilem superior power, which ignores the plan words of Paul:
having despoiled the principalities and the powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Col 2:15
:scratch:



These scriptures contradict your claims, and ignoring them doesn't not make them go away or remove the flaws in your claims. :)



Peace
 
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GLJCA

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These scriptures contradict your claims, and ignoring them doesn't not make them go away or remove the flaws in your claims. :)

Littleflower,
the attitude that most Dispys have is "don't confuse me with the facts, I have my mind made up".

Have you ever wondered why the Mid Acts people would accept what Paul says about the gospel, yet reject what Paul says about Christ's dominion?

Buffet Christianity is the type Christianity where you can pick and choose that which you want to believe and pass on the rest.

Here is what Paul wrote about Christ's dominion.

Eph 1:20-21 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places], Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Paul is surely not writing about Jesus here because a king in exile has dominion over no one.

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Was Paul writing about Jesus here also? This doesn't sound like someone who is exiled to me.


Phil 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth;
This must have been a delusional time in Paul's life because he is saying that at Jesus' name every knee should bow. It almost seems like Paul is saying that Jesus is in power over all things. No couldn't be if Jesus is in exile.

Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Wow Paul must not know what he is saying. How could Jesus be head of all principality and power when He is in exile?

Again these guys come up with ideas and then work to find scripture that agrees with them, not realizing that it is the scripture that disagrees with them that thwarts their ideas.

They treat the Word of God like a patchwork quilt instead of viewing it as a seamless garment.

GLJCA
 
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eph3Nine

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Hebr 2:8 "But now we see not yet all things subjected to him"
Thank you holden...you proved my point exactly.

BUT NOW....is that age of GRACE wherein God is building a BODY and the King IS in exile. The god of this world has usurped Gods rightful rulership for a season, but WILL be dealt with at a future time when God WILL put all things under His feet.

For now...satan has taken his wish to "be LIKE the Most High God, possessor of heaven and earth" to a reality. The Cross however, has thwarted this temporary situation and he knows he has but little time before God brings ALL things unto Himself in Christ and puts the devil where He belongs.

Oh the wondrous joy of the MYSTERY revealed. The UNSEARCHABLE riches of Christ.
 
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thereselittleflower

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Hebr 2:8 "But now we see not yet all things subjected to him"

Yep . .that is what we see with our natural eyes. . . we see that there is resistance to His dominion and the all power and authority given Him in heaven and earth.

we SEE that this is occuring . .

The resistance movement is still trying to fight against His power and athority, even though he is ruling over the kings of the earth, as John tells us . . .


So . . since when does what we see with our eyes mean that what we see is the sum total of reality?


You left out the first part of that verse . . . this type of proof texting does not prove anything . . .

Here is what you left out:

"Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet." For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing [that is] not put under him.​

Paul is speaking of something already accomplished, holdon.

Not something that has yet to be . . .

"He put" . . a done deal

not "He will put" . . . . ie something that will happen in the future

"left nothing not under Him" . . . . a done deal

not "will leave nothing not under Him" . . . . ie something that will happen in the future








Peace
 
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holdon

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Yep . .that is what we see with our natural eyes. . . we see that there is resistance to His dominion and the all power and authority given Him in heaven and earth.

we SEE that this is occuring . .

The resistance movement is still trying to fight against His power and athority, even though he is ruling over the kings of the earth, as John tells us . . .


So . . since when does what we see with our eyes mean that what we see is the sum total of reality?


You left out the first part of that verse . . . this type of proof texting does not prove anything . . .

Here is what you left out:

"Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet." For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing [that is] not put under him.​
Paul is speaking of something already accomplished, holdon.

Not something that has yet to be . . .

"He put" . . a done deal

not "He will put" . . . . ie something that will happen in the future

"left nothing not under Him" . . . . a done deal

not "will leave nothing not under Him" . . . . ie something that will happen in the future








Peace

Not sure it was Paul speaking, but that's another subject.

There are 2 things:
  1. All pwr and authority are given to Jesus. He has been made Lord.
  2. All things are not yet subject to Him. "Sit at my right hand, till all enemies are made for footstool".
He could exercise all power if He would, now. But He is waiting. Therefore it still a time of grace.
 
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thereselittleflower

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Not sure it was Paul speaking, but that's another subject.

There are 2 things:
  1. All pwr and authority are given to Jesus. He has been made Lord.
  2. All things are not yet subject to Him. "Sit at my right hand, till all enemies are made for footstool".
He could exercise all power if He would, now. But He is waiting. Therefore it still a time of grace.

Again, the verse you presented only the last part of contradicts you here:
For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing [that is] not put under him.
This scripture tells us this has already been done. . .

ALL has been put in subjection under Him

NOTHING has been left that is not put under Him.


What you refer to is something that was written before Christ came.

What I am quoting is something that was written AFTER Christ came.

What was foretold BEFORE Christ came we are now told in what was written AFTER Christ came that it has been done.


Why do you ignore what the scriptures plainly state?



Peace
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this "world" hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Who is representing the unbelievers of that "Age"?

(Young) 2 Corinthians 4:3 and if also our good news is vailed, in those perishing it is vailed, 4 in whom the god of this age did blind the minds of the unbelieving, that there doth not shine forth to them the enlightening of the good news of the glory of the Christ, who is the image of God
2 corin 3:14 But their minds were dull. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the [veil] is taken away in Christ.
 
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JMWHALEN

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Yes that is why He is still seated on the throne until all His enemies are made His footstool.

GLJCA
____________________________
"..He(referring to the Lord Jesus Christ) is still seated on the throne....."

Does the scripture testify that Satan is the god this world? Yes, it does. Does scripture testify that Christ is in exile, i.e., not ruling this world today? Yes, it does(a study of king David as a "type" of the Lord Jesus Christ, a king in "exile" would be profitable). Does most of this world reject the Lord Jesus Christ? Yes, it does. Is he currently reigning as "...KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS..."(Rev. 19:16), ruling with a rod of iron on earth from Jerusalem? No, He is not, and does not. Is the LORD God still in control? Yes, He most assuredly is. Sovereign control is not equivalent to reigning physically on earth, and in the heavens.


The Lord Jesus Christ is not reigning physically on earth today-we live in a Christ-rejecting world. Satan is the "god of this world" today, and if many cannot see this, and not believe what Paul, their our apostle is telling them, by command from the risen, ascended, glorified, and yes, exiled Lord Jesus Christ from heaven, not on earth, I will let them "be ignorant"(biblically, 'ignorant' does not mean 'stupid'-it means 'lack of knowledge') But He will. I cannot make them see this, nor Eph. 3:9. They cannot, and will not, distinguish between the spiritual kingdom of God, and the literal, earthly, physical kingdom of heaven on earth. The Jews were promised a literal, physical reign on earth under the Lord Jesus Christ(He will be reigning physically from Jerusalem) in resurrected bodiesThis has not happened, but will happen, in spite of others' disbelief. The body of Christ has no land promise on this earth-none. The curse of Genesis will be lifted, and we will experience "…the days of heaven upon the earth…"(Deut. 11:21), "…the times of refreshing…"(acts 3:19), including "...the times of restitution of all things…"(Acts 3:21), and this "all things" includes the restoration of both the earth and the heavenlies under the LORD God's control. The Holy Spirit is very particular in His choice of words: "In the beginning God create the heaven and the earth….", not "universe". The LORD God's purpose in Christ Jesus is to restore dominion/control of both spheres, and has designated the earth for the Jews, and the heavenlies for the body of Christ.


Psa 110:1 does not demonstrate that the Lord Jesus Christ was seated on David's throne at the right hand of the father until all of His enemies are made His footstool. No scripture says that the Lord Jesus Christ is sitting on David's throne in heaven right now. He's in heaven all right, but not on David's throne. David's throne is never said to be in heaven-it is on earth.


The Lord Jesus Christ is seated at the right hand of God, therefore He is currently on God the Father's throne.

The Lord Jesus Christ's throne-on earth:

"And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom." Mt. 20:21=will be on earth


"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne,even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." Rev. 3:21

NOTICE: "my throne", ie., the Lord Jesus Christ's throne, is differentiated from His Fathers's throne-"his throne."


Again, the Lord Jesus Christ's throne-on earth:

"And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that
these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on
the left, in thy kingdom." Mt. 20:21

"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." Rev.
3:21

vs.
God the Father's throne:

"Which he wrought in Christ, when he(God the Father-my note) raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places," Eph. 1:20

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:."
Eph. 1:3

"And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus..." Eph. 2:6

=Members of the Body of Christ will sit with the Lord Jesus Christ in the heavenlies upon God the Father's throne, but kingdom members will sit upon the Lord Jesus Christ's throne on earth.

The Lord Jesus Christ is in exile until He returns in wrath and power. He will not be on His own throne until His return to earth to reclaim His earthly Kingdom. And this will be done by force-a kingdom is always set up by force. The reign of a king is never said to be ushered in by a gradual process of world improvement; on the contrary, this reign is introduced suddenly, and with great violence/force-"set up"(see also Mt. 11:12, 24:27; Mal. 3:1; Is. 11:4, 19:1; John 6:15):


"And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever." Daniel 2:44

"In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land." Jeremiah 33:15

vs. the body of Christ, the church in this dispensation, is said to be gradually "built up":

"For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth hereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ." 1 Cor. 3:9-11

"Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving." Colossians 2:7

"And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit." Ephesians 2:20-22


The Lord Jesus will literally set His feet back on the Mount of Olives, as the angel in Acts 1 indicates. And thus Deut. 11:21 will be fufilled:

"That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers to give them,as the days of heaven upon the earth." Deut. 11:21

If these words are not to be viewed as literal, then I suggest we all "pack it in, go home, class dismissed-we can learn nothing from each other, and we can teaching each other nothing."

Most refuse to distinguish from the Body of Christ's calling/reign to be in the heavenlies, with spiritual blessings, not physical, and not on earth, vs. Israel's calling/reign will be on earth, with their promised physical blessings. "...we are translated into His kingdom" Yes, we are considered spiritually delivered into his heavenly now, not Israel's earthly, kingdom, merely awaiting the redemption of our bodies to reign in the heavenlies. We are not Israel, and have no reign on earth, and none of Israel's land is ours:

"That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers to give them, as the days of heaven upon the earth." Deut. 11:21


David's throne is never said to be in heaven. Acts 2:29-32 is stating, that the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ was the assurance, the promise, that, from David's loins, THE KING, the Lord Jesus Christ, would "sit on his throne", "his throne" being David's throne! This throne is on the earth, where the Lord Jesus Christ will reign over all the earth, with Israel as the head nation.Again, David's throne was on earth. It was never said to be in heaven.

There will be a literal, earthly, kingdom of heaven on earth, with the Lord Jesus Christ reigning on earth, despite any denials. The Body of Christ's position of reign in the heavenlies is nowhere to be found outside of Paul's epistles, and was unheard of in Jewish thought in the OT. The body of Christ has no part in this earthly kingdom,and we have no land.

In Christ,
John M. Whalen
 
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