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There is nothing in my signature. Are you "goading" me? I feel victimized.
But even WPATH don't promote rushing people into treatment! It's quite clear, even just reading the sections on children in that nifty 260-page document from them, that they are promoting careful assessment.
There are also recommendations such as that health care providers: "Are able to identify co-existing mental health or other psychosocial concerns and distinguish these from gender dysphoria, incongruence, and diversity. ...assessment is best provided by an HCP who possesses some expertise in mental health in order to identify conditions that can be mistaken for gender incongruence. Such conditions are rare and, when present, are often psychological in nature."
I'm not characterising them as anything. I was describing Australian standards of care which they happen to have endorsed. That they have endorsed them doesn't say anything about those standards of care, which ought to be examined and taken on their merits.This is the organization that you're characterizing as both responsible and scientific.
I was returning the threads to its roots - on world views , one part of which is moral code.In other words, it's the old "just do your own research" line trotted out when someone can't back up their own points.
I'm not going to do your homework for you. If you make claims and refuse to back them up, that's not my problem.
But Steve is not in one of those countries, he is in Australia, just like me.
It would have been just as easy for you to type that name into Google to get a link to back up your claim. Yet you even refuse to do that.
So what? I stand by my position that "don't kill people" has been around long before any religious belief that exists in the world today. That doesn't mean that no one is going to kill. There are always going to be people of all religious positions, both believers and non-believers, who will be willing to kill, and who will find some way to justify killing.
This claim is so vague it's meaningless.
So it's okay for Christians to kill atheists?
Or are you invoking the "No True Scotsman" fallacy here?
You don't undserstand what "survival of the fittest" actually means, do you?
It does NOT mean, "everybody start bashing everyone else, and whoever is still standing at the end deserves to get all the food/mates/other resourse."
It is talking about things on a GENETIC level. The genes that are the best at helping the individual they are in survive (the FITTEST genes) are the ones that will have the best chance of being passed on to the next generation of the population (and that would be the survival aspect of it).
You missed my point.
You claim it is the CHRISTIAN moral code.
My point is that while that particular moral code is held by many Christians, it is also held by many non-Christians as well, and that moral code was also around long before Christianity.
So It can't be justified to say that it is a moral code that was created by Christianity.
"Rev. Adam McKay PhD"There is nothing in my signature. Are you "goading" me? I feel victimized.
What are you talking about I only linked two papers about poor outcomes post Transition and they were from reputable sourses. Tell is you claim the paper said "it's sill high compared to the general population" the why deid it say specifically that "suicide increased compared to the control group". Not stayed the same or was still high or reduced but increased. In neede you to explain what increased mean.It did not say that! It said it's sill high compared to the general population. Why do you keep repeating the same nonsense when you are linking to papers that tell you thatyou are wrong?
You obviously are linking to reports that you either don't understand, that you misinterpret or that you haven't read. This is like a food fight. Just keep throwing things at the wall and hope something sticks. Get something wrong? Throw some more. Get it from a useless source? Have at it again. Misinterpret the findings? Hey, just throw the same thing again. Misquote something? Never mind, here's some more links, some more papers.
I would if I knew which article it was because that is not the paper I linke to show that suicide may increase after surgery. The paper I was referring to was this one and its certainly not 80 pages long.The pdf to which you linked - and I have no idea why you so did because there's nothing in there that supports anything you've tried to complain about, will explain a lot about what is considered good practice. It is chock full of examples. I have no idea where you got the idea to post it. But why not read it. It's only 80+ pages long. I did. Tell me something in it with which you disagree. After all, it's your evidence. And quote the page number please. We'll do this step by step. Using your links. I'll wait here while you read it.
Thankyou, I would like that. I am interested not in the individual examples as we can all agree that there is difference in the worldview about these examples like what gender, sex, life, relationships, families, society, the world, the universe, nature, reality and spirituality represent. Secular Humanists have a different worldview to Christians and this is expressed in the different beliefs about the examples mentioned and therefore how we go about ordering society which basically is related to morality.I was returning the threads to its roots - on world views , one part of which is moral code.
I would if I knew which article it was because that is not the paper I linke to show that suicide may increase after surgery. The paper I was referring to was this one and its certainly not 80 pages long.
Example,
the Rebbe was engaging with a young lady by letter,
He told her, "I feel your pain"
She replied, "How can you feel my pain?"
The Rebbe answered,
"When a child is teething the mother feels the pain too"
It is about soul connection.
That's just what we call "empathy".
Let me add that a third worldview which tries to reconcile these two. In that world view there is indeed God who created and designed for a purpose. But part of that purpose is human growth and spiritual development. And that requires human empowerment, free will, self determination, much like a child needs to learn to make his or her own decisions and choices, choosing the life that is right for him or her rather than the parents' plan.I know its more complex but I think more broadly its a difference in 2 Worldviews and fundemental assumptions and beliefs about how the world is, what nature and reality represent, one that is God created and designed for a purpose and one that is human created where humans can be the gods of themselves, nature, reality. This relates to how humans try to create or recreate nature, remodeling morality, humans and nature into human concepts rather than in Gods hands or a transcendent being beyond human conventions.
The Finnish recommendation is for adults not kids. And even in it's recommendation it says this.Then here's an idea. You keep promoting the idea that countries like Sweden and Finland have come to different conclusions. So here's the Finnish recommendation. https://palveluvalikoima.fi/documen...f92/Summary_non-binary_en.pdf?t=1592318035000
I doubt that you've read it - you haven't quoted any of it but just seem keen to keep mentioning it because you think that they do things better than do the Endocrine Society, WPATH and the AAP. So I guess that you're happy with it. Why else keep on about it?
Which is now the question. If a couple of Scaninavian countries have it right, as far as you are concerned, then shall we use the Finnish one for example as a basis for what we should be doing?
The third view as described is still yet another religious view. So, let's just not infringe each other.Let me add that a third worldview which tries to reconcile these two. In that world view there is indeed God who created and designed for a purpose. But part of that purpose is human growth and spiritual development. And that requires human empowerment, free will, self determination, much like a child needs to learn to make his or her own decisions and choices, choosing the life that is right for him or her rather than the parents' plan.
When a child is born with a cleft palate or any other physical abnormality, we often have no problem with surgical correction. we take it upon ourselves to change the way God created that child.
This thread is about world views. One view is about truth and reality colliding with an idea that pursues the changing of language, thought and reality.
Rather than just considering that transgenderism is a thought it belief system, an idea it pursues the pushing of that idea or even forcing that idea upon everyone else. That's the collision. It's no different than a religion forcing others to believe their idea and alter society to fit and proclaim that idea as truth. That's the collision.
If transgenderism simply said this is what I believe and left it at that there would be few problems with it. But proclaiming it as TRUTH, then we are required as a society to follow and believe it also. That's why the pronouns are forced upon us, men competing against women are forced upon us, men undressing in women's locker rooms are forced upon us as well as men using women's bathrooms. That's why parents lose their parental rights over it. That's why an entire society is told you must alter the ways things have been done and you must spend billions and billions of dollars to alter locker rooms and bathrooms to accommodate an idea that actually has no scientific evidence that it is true. An idea that is held by less than 1% of the population historically. The suspension of truth to a belief.
If a religious group were to do this over their beliefs it would be a real problem as is evidenced already. Yet the same people that would oppose religion from doing this are the same people who support transgenderism and all it believes.
It's very interesting to see. And difficult to deal with for the unbelievers (in transgenderism).
Exactly. And this is par for the course.I may disagree with it. But it is what it is.
You are ignoring facts. There is no research that supports this claim. It is NOT an important step. There is no evidence that it is an important step. This is a false claim made by the trans activists. And to continue to perpetuate this lie makes you a co-conspirator in something someone in your position shouldn't be.For example (emphasis mine): "Puberty blockers, also called hormone blockers, help delay unwanted physical changes that don’t match someone’s gender identity. Delaying these changes can be an important step in a young person’s transition. It can also give your child more time to explore their options before deciding whether or how to transition."
I give you information from a children's hospital about the purposes of a particular treatment, and I'm ignoring facts?You are ignoring facts.
Thank heavens there are people in my position, and similar positions, who realise that we're not here to run everybody else's lives.And to continue to perpetuate this lie makes you a co-conspirator in something someone in your position shouldn't be.
No they are not. The SOC states that therapy is NOT required. How on earth can you say that careful assessment is being done when it's only considered beneficial and not required?But even WPATH don't promote rushing people into treatment! It's quite clear, even just reading the sections on children in that nifty 260-page document from them, that they are promoting careful assessment.
The information you provided is not based on facts. It's based on an opinion. There are NO FACTS that support the statement made. There are no RCTS that indicate that this is true. There is no scientific evidence for the claim. Yes you ARE ignoring facts. You are just spouting claims made that are not based upon the scientific data. There are no RCTs involved.I give you information from a children's hospital about the purposes of a particular treatment, and I'm ignoring facts?
This thread isn't about a collision of worldviews. It's about what happens when a group of people engage in mass denial of reality.
Thank heavens there are people in my position, and similar positions, who realise that we're not here to run everybody else's lives.
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