Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Let me give you another shot at using your moral insights in a concrete example.Yes I am the one who decides. But so do you. Anyone with any connection with the matter at hand decides.
As someone said earlier:The salient point is that your "selfish gene" notion of morality does not require any charitable acts, and most certainly, not any heroic charitable acts.
Yes. The guy (if we assume it's the man being asked) shouldn't have cheated on his wife. The harm has already been done because the relationship of trust between them no longer exists, even if she thinks it does. If he lies then he's just hiding that fact.Let me give you another shot at using your moral insights in a concrete example.
A married couple have intercourse. The problem is they are not married to each other. One day the spouse of one asks, "Have you ever been unfaithful to me?" The spouse lies thinking that the truth will only cause harm to their marriage. Any moral problems here?
I agree with you that people know they are doing harm. I am just asking the question, wondering why some people do harm and don't believe they are being harmful. I think its part of finding the truth as to how people think about morality.You suggested it could be difficult knowing that harm has been done. Not acknowledging it. I agreed. Please don't redefine the subject of the discussion.
Yes and I think part of that is investigating the facts around the moral issue. What is classed as harm, was harm actually done and is the harm justified. The question is how do we determine that.Then it is plainly and obviously necessary to determine if it has or has not been done.
But surely just asking the person is not enough. People can be misleading, take advantage, be controlling, be overly sensitive. We see this happening today where people are walking on egg shells to scared to say boo for offending people when it comes to rights.Yes, often it is subjective. So I said quite a few posts ago that if there is disagreement on whether it has been done then we ask the person who says they've been harmed.
I think thats more to do with etiquette (manners, being curteous ect) than morality. A cultural word or a practice may have different meaning in the culture and as you say may be offensive to a different culture. So when engaging we put aside those cultural norms to be polite. But the cultural norms are not immoral in themselves.You'd definitely be aware that some Australian terms don't translate well when used with someone who isn't Australian. If an American said he was upset about something I said, even if you wouldn't be, then I'd naturally accept that he's been harmed. So we then have a problem with morality. And I have to decide if I'm justified using that language.
Really? So our selfish genes that only consider the survival of me, and those I consider mine (aka "the population"), "does not explain it all. Does not sound like evolution theory anymore. Something else is at work on us. Could that be Love itself, aka God? So kindly explain to us the source of your newly discovered "charitable gene".As someone said earlier:
'...our genetic makeup doesn't dictate what we do. There are considerations other than our personal tendencies to survive. ...'
...
Evolution works within populations, not individuals. Your actions are not dictated by your genes. ...
?Yes. The guy (if we assume it's the man being asked) shouldn't have cheated on his wife. The harm has already been done because the relationship of trust between them no longer exists, even if she thinks it does. If he lies then he's just hiding that fact.
Kindly square up these two posts. She does not know that harm has been done. So, "the relationship of trust between themIf we don't know that harm has been done then we have nothing to discuss.
Yes so their genes while starting identical don't stay that way. So all I yenta and purposes aside they do not have identical genes as they develope. Like I said maybe there is a misunderstanding between the two on what you are talking about.There are dna mutations in everybody. That's a given. Even in identical twins. Even in something that's been cloned. It drives evolution. But to all intents and purposes identical twins have identical genetic makeup. It's why they are called identical twins.
Still dodging the question I see. Well, until you answer it, I guess the discussion is over and I reject your claim that you can decide what is right wrong, harmful, moral and immoral. You have shown no authority or ability to do that.Yes I am the one who decides. But so do you. Anyone with any connection with the matter at hand decides. In the case that you mentioned, we both decide that killing someone isn't warranted simply to appease family honour. Their sense of honour doesn't equate to the taking of a life. I guess they might argue. Tough. We've made our decision. I've made mine. And you've made yours. And if you think that you have the right to do so then please don't question mine.
How do we ensure that what we consider to be immoral acts are stopped? Good question. Glad you asked. Let me know what you think.
hahaha Great ! Thank you! (oh, for "charitable gene" that I laughed when I read it ) ....Does not sound like evolution theory anymore.
Evolution theory has nothing that speaks directly to morality. Or virtue. But what do you think about how society views courage. And cowardice. Or dishonesty and trustworthiness? Miserly or charitable? Would being thought of as courageous and honest be a plus or a negative do you think? Would you want to be thought of as untrustworthy and dishonest?Really? So our selfish genes that only consider the survival of me, and those I consider mine (aka "the population"), "does not explain it all. Does not sound like evolution theory anymore. Something else is at work on us. Could that be Love itself, aka God? So kindly explain to us the source of your newly discovered "charitable gene".
She doesn't know. But we do. We know that harm has been done to the relationship. So we can discuss whether we think his actions were justified. If you want the wife's view on the matter then you'd have to tell her. I'm sure she'd have an opinion she'd like to share.Kindly square up these two posts. She does not know that harm has been done. So, "the relationship of trust between themno longerexists".
You might as well say that one of them has a callous on his finger, so they are not identical. It was a minor point brought up to differentiate the genetic difference between identical and fraternal twins. Thanks for your input on the matter.Yes so their genes while starting identical don't stay that way. So all I yenta and purposes aside they do not have identical genes as they develope. Like I said maybe there is a misunderstanding between the two on what you are talking about.
As you made the decision that the actions of the girl's family was abhorrent I assume that you must have that authority and ability. So if there's a decision to be made on morality then I guess I'll have to ask you.Still dodging the question I see. Well, until you answer it, I guess the discussion is over and I reject your claim that you can decide what is right wrong, harmful, moral and immoral. You have shown no authority or ability to do that.
We agree that evolution theory cannot explain virtuous behaviors. So, as a materialist, why do you think, or if you like "society" thinks, that we ought to admire virtuousness and abhor viciousness? If not from our genes then from just where does this impetus to be charitable (loving) come?Evolution theory has nothing that speaks directly to morality. Or virtue. But what do you think about how society views courage. And cowardice. Or dishonesty and trustworthiness? Miserly or charitable? Would being thought of as courageous and honest be a plus or a negative do you think? Would you want to be thought of as untrustworthy and dishonest?
Why does one need moral authority? Surely the only moral authority we need is our own subjective ethical framework?You have shown no authority or ability to do that.
No, we do not know; he lied (or chose not to disclose his infidelity) to us as well. So, applying your notion of morality, he says to himself, "no harm, no foul." His wife is not physically harmed. His lie protects her form mental harm. Two wrongs make a right? End of this morality story?She doesn't know. But we do. We know that harm has been done to the relationship. So we can discuss whether we think his actions were justified. If you want the wife's view on the matter then you'd have to tell her. I'm sure she'd have an opinion she'd like to share.
I see three possible "likes" for this post: Kaczynski, Dahmer, and Manson.Why does one need moral authority? Surely the only moral authority we need is our own subjective ethical framework?
You really aren't following the discussion.We agree that evolution theory cannot explain virtuous behaviors. So, as a materialist, why do you think, or if you like "society" thinks, that we ought to admire virtuousness and abhor viciousness? If not from our genes then from just where does this impetus to be charitable (loving) come?
Do I have to explain that we cannot discuss a moral problem if we don't know it exists? If we don't know that someone has committed what we might decide is an immoral act then how can it be discussed?No, we do not know; he lied (or chose not to disclose his infidelity) to us as well. So, applying your notion of morality, he says to himself, "no harm, no foul." His wife is not physically harmed. His lie protects her form mental harm. Two wrongs make a right? End of this morality story?
This is a constant problem that people have with these discussions. If I, for example, say that we individually have the right to make these decisions doesn't mean that therefore I agree that all decisions are therefore correct. That is completely fallacious. Obviously. Or at least it's obvious to me.I see three possible "likes" for this post: Kaczynski, Dahmer, and Manson.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?