so under that reasoning new Christians should demonstrate full access to these spiritual gifts being spiritually immature.
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When "the perfect" comes...
- Thread starter DamianWarS
- Start date
so under that reasoning new Christians should demonstrate full access to these spiritual gifts being spiritually immature.
That interpretation would be taking the text in isolation and not in context. You are forgetting chapter 12 where the subject of Spiritual Gifts are introduced. Paul's says in Chapter 12 "there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good ... But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills." Now I would find that area to be prime opportunity for Paul to inject this clause that when "you see clear as threw the spirit" then the spiritual gifts are no longer needed. By this reasoning the Spirit grants us gifts through our unity of the Body of Christ but when we see clearly through the spirit (who has granted us these gifts to empower his body) the gifts are no longer needed. I'm sorry but that is assuming a lot in the text and implanting thought into a very inconsistent area not to mention it seems counterproductive to the Spirit as a whole.
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Actually Jake you make a terrific point! From the scripture we can see that the only place we see God receiving our money (some call it tithe) is in Mathew 25:31-45......Is when it is given to the "Least of These My brethren".........And when we see the context is refering to The least of the followers of Christ. I couldn't find any scripture where building vast Cathedrals decorated with gold and silver are ever rewarded by God, or the money to maintain these monstrosities, but the money given to poor Christian brothers and sisters is like giving it to Jesus........that is a very cool notion if you ask me
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Basically what I said was that it was a process, so not sure how you came to your conclusion???
On the other hand, if God wants a new believer to prophecy, than the new believer will do just that.
Is there a rule somewhere that says a new Christian can't have a spiritual gift or is that just one of your rules?
I'm a believer, I don't follow rules, I follow Jesus Christ.
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I think you misunderstood me. I don't think "new" believers have less/more access to the Holy Spirit as "old" believers. You said "we conform to it" and "that perfect means is full, complete and mature". It would seem to suggest that if there is "mature" then there would be "immature". My comment was simply exposing the "immature" side which your remarks seem to suggest where the spiritual gifts work where apparently Paul found himself as you put it. I don't believe that however.
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The gift is perfect, but we are imperfect.. full of holes and leaks.. which means we hold less than the perfect amount.
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FirenWater
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We are to grow up in Him though, and go onto perfection. It speaks of babes in Christ (which walk like men still) and that which belongs to the full age (which walk as He walked). To me that is the maturity in Christ
Luke 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.
Ephes 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
God bless
Luke 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.
Ephes 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
God bless
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again this is a suggestion of progression. I'm not so sure you guys are reading the text. Paul is saying that when "the perfect comes, the partial will be done away" The partial is spiritual gifts so if this happens from a state of progression that would mean that spiritual gifts are in full effect for the spiritually immature and then are no longer needed when we reach this "perfection" state. Sounds like some kind of enlightenment thing to me which I do not think the bible teaches. The spirit is readily available to each of us both "new" and "old" christian alike. The context of the text says in 12:7 "to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good" The condition for these spiritual gifts are "as the spirit wills" again as the context makes clear in 12:11.
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FirenWater
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DamianWars I was just commenting on visionaries post not to the thread. But I agree the common good is expressed in many places
1Peter 4:10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
Gifts, administrations and operations
1Cr 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Cr 12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Cr 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
1Cr 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
Sorta like this...
Mat 24:14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
Mat 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
1Cr 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
So (again)
1Peter 4:10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
Which again the gift, whichever one has is for the ministering unto one another
1Cr 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
For the profit of "withall" (shows same principal here)
Col 1:25 Of this Church I was made a minister according to the stewardship (( which is from God )) bestowed upon me for your benefit that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God,
Stewardship for "your benefit"... the rest of the parable (concerning his goods delivered unto us, His body)
Mat 25:19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
Which agrees with this...
Romans 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Mat 25:20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
Mat 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
1Cr 4:2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
"Well done" he did well and we are told...
Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
He will render unto every man according to what he has done... This is interesting, the same words are used here as in the parable of the wicked and slothful servant)
Prov 24:30-31 I went by the field of the slothful, and by the vineyard of the man void of understanding And, lo, it was all grown over with thorns, and nettles had covered the face thereof, and the stone wall thereof was broken down.
Now here...
Mat 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
Wicked and slothful
Prov 21:7 The robbery of the wicked shall destroy them; because they refuse to do judgment.
Mat 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
Mat 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
2Cr 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
Prov 13:4 The soul of the sluggard desireth, and hath nothing: but the soul of the diligent shall be made fat.
Wherein we are admonished
Heb 6:12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
But again, Im not posting to the OP, but I am agreeing with you that which is given to the profit withawl, thats spoken of throughout.
God is not unrighteous to forget your labour of love and service to the saints as you minister and do minister.
Paul does speak of "when I was a child I spake as a child, I understood as a child, and when I became a man I put away childish things". What do you think that implies there?
Gees, is it there? I dont have it in front of me, Im rushing to get out the door here too.
God bless you
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the imparting of wisdom, understanding, knowledge, talents, and other gifts are given in portions to what the person can handle... when perfection comes, the person has mastered the portions and are able to handle it all.
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