When is it sin?

Garbru · Aug 11, 2003

Well it certainly is not good to THINK about sining in any case. Thinking about sin is the first step toward doing it. There are also some scriptures that indicate that sin in thought IS a SIN. To covet, or to lust or, hatred, anger etc are all sins and are not healthy to harbor in your mind. Harboring sinful thoughts are not good. The Bible tells us to be pure in heart, how can one be pure in heart if you think or fantacize about sining. Now way. Most of our spiritual warfare is in the mind. We are supposed to turn away from sinful thoughts and keep a clean, pure, humble mind.

Reformationist · Aug 11, 2003

boughtwithaprice said:
My exception to your descrition of Adam's fall hinges on the words of God. Gold told him not to eat of the fruit; He did not say "Don't even think about it." It wasn't sin until Adam ate.

Okay. I didn't say it was sinful for Adam to think about it, at least, I don't think I did. What was sinful was for Adam to decide to eat of the tree knowing that that was disobeying God. Tell me something, is it not sin to "murder your brother in your heart" without actually committing the act of murder?

I have heard preachers give sermons on how Eve added to the words of God by saying not to touch it. I am wondering why you have to add to God's word by saying Adam's thoughts were sin BEFORE he ate.

bwap, keep your condescension to yourself. I'm not adding to the Word of God. I'm discussing the nature of our choices.

If they were, then he fell before he fell. The command was do not eat, not do not think. While this may be seen as hair slitting, but I believe its important.

I didn't say it wasn't important. I do think it's important. That's why I brought it up in the first place. Take a look at this thread.

Adding to the words of God can lead to distortions of His true intent and the teaching for doctrine the commandments of men. I am not saying that this is what you are trying to do, but I am concerned about the path your line of reasoning is taking. The only sin that Adam could know was to eat or not to eat. If he had considered eating and then rejected the thought, then I do not believe he would have sinned. It is a moot point however because we all know that he did eat and therefore fell.

How could Adam have desired to disobey God in the first place? He was created with only a desire to obey God.

Paul does not use this description when talking about Adam. I believe that his point is that the Law reveals sin in fallen man and does not lead him to eternal life.

No, that's not what his point was. His point was that before there was a law we cannot be guilty of breaking it because there's no law against it. Then, when the law is given it convicts man, or makes him guilty of any transgressions, because there is a law against it.

In Genesis, God condemns Adam for listening to his wife and eating the fruit; it mentions nothing of his thoughts.

So Adam was just sitting there and just arbitrarily got up and ate of the fruit? Didn't he have to decide to disobey God prior to actually eating of the tree? If so, do you believe that desire to disobey God was sinful?

bwap, please do not hijack the thread which has nothing to do with the opening post. If you wish to preach a sermon at least start your own thread.

I agree if we are speaking of natural or unregenerate men/women. The regenerate are capable of at least some righteous thoughts.

Yes, I was referring to unregenerate man.

I tried to explain better in this post, I hope it clears my position for you. God did not condemn Adam for thinking; He condemned him for listening and eating. Jesus condemns us for thinking in some circumstnaces, because we know better. We have the results of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and we have much more detailed commandments than Adam received. This was done so that sin may be utterly sinful, and we are completely dependant on the grace and mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ for salvation, and not to attempt to reach righeousness by works of the Law by which no flesh shall be justified.

Okay. Now you are splitting hairs. First, I am not saying that Adam thinking of the fruit was bad. Eve did it. She saw that the fruit was good for food, pleasing to the eye and that wisdom was a good thing, right? That's not sinful. However, when that legitimate desire becomes illigitimate is when we decide to disobey God. You see bwap, we do not just arbitrarily act. We act on our decisions. What I'm asking is, was the decision that prompted the action to disobey God a sinful decision?

Take care and have a blessed day

You too.

God bless

boughtwithaprice · Aug 11, 2003

Upon further review of this thread, I owe reformationist my most humble apologies. I got so caught up in my line of thought that I misspoke. Reformationist never added to the word of God by saying that Adam sinned before the fall. I had confused post #6 with post #1, and I thought that post #6 was a statement, but it was a question. I have no excuse and I fall on my sword.

In response to the poll, I said that it is sin when you willfully entertain sinful desires. According to James 1:14-15, sin begins in our own hearts.
According to Romans 7, there is no transgression if there is no Law, but there was still sin in man's heart before the formal giving of the Law. We know this by Cain's murder of Abel. The question of whether Adam sinned in thought before he ate the fruit is the subject of another thread. My appologies for an unintended but ignorant hijack.

Brother Reformationist, can you forgive?

In Christ's service,

Jerome

/-

Reformationist · Aug 12, 2003

boughtwithaprice said:
Upon further review of this thread, I owe reformationist my most humble apologies. I got so caught up in my line of thought that I misspoke. Reformationist never added to the word of God by saying that Adam sinned before the fall. I had confused post #6 with post #1, and I thought that post #6 was a statement, but it was a question. I have no excuse and I fall on my sword.

In response to the poll, I said that it is sin when you willfully entertain sinful desires. According to James 1:14-15, sin begins in our own hearts.
According to Romans 7, there is no transgression if there is no Law, but there was still sin in man's heart before the formal giving of the Law. We know this by Cain's murder of Abel. The question of whether Adam sinned in thought before he ate the fruit is the subject of another thread. My appologies for an unintended but ignorant hijack.

Brother Reformationist, can you forgive?

In Christ's service,

Jerome

/-

Jerome, I don't think there's anything to forgive but I appreciate you being so godly about it and I try to never withhold forgiveness anyway so of course I forgive you. I was not offended and I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that I was. I often come across more harshly in the written word than I mean to. I apologize if I attacked you.

God bless,
Don

Gabriel · Aug 12, 2003

boughtwithapirice,

What a great example of humility. Have some blessings.

TrueFaith · Aug 12, 2003

boughtwithaprice said:
Thank you for the explanation of your views, eldermike. They describe a supralapsarian world view, and also mirror my own. God created Adam with the purpose of having him fall so that He(God) may show forth His(God's) glory through His Son, Jesus Christ. We cannot overcome the sin nature in ourselves; we are completely dependant on the Grace of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Anyone who calls upon the name of the LORD will be saved, and we know that only the elect will.
The elect were forknown and predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus before the foundation of the world. We can trust totally in God's grace.
Do you agree with supralapsarianism or do you have reservations? Some people have told me that it is equivalent to "hypercalvinism", but I disagree. Hypercalvinism is more of a fatalistic approach to life. "It's all predestined, so why do anything?" line of thought. I view supralapsarianism as God knew what He was doing in every step of creation; even Einstein is reported to have said "God does not play dice with the universe."
We evangelize, teach and proclaim the Gospel because that is what God commands us to do, and it is a joy to serve Him. Thoughts? Disagreements?

So human beings thrown into Hell and destined to go there are just God's play things in your view, so God can pump himself up and look good?

Reformationist · Aug 12, 2003

TrueFaith said:
So human beings thrown into Hell and destined to go there are just God's play things in your view, so God can pump himself up and look good?

Why did you ask this as if this is what boughtwithaprice implied?

boughtwithaprice · Aug 12, 2003

Although it appears that you have asked in a pejorative way, TrueFaith, you do bring up an interesting question. My answer is that we are not God's playthings, but we are God's creation. He is free to do with us as He wishes. He is thrice Holy (Holy, Holy, Holy) and in need of nothing. He doesn't need our love, praise, obedience or approval. He freely chose to create us in order to demonstate to us His glory, mercy, justice, love and wrath; not that He needs an ego boost, but it is good for us that we know Him in this way. I can't say that it is good for the reprobate because they will burn in the lake of fire, but we know that they exist because God's word says they do.

Romans 9:18
So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

[size=-1]Romans 9:19
You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?"

[size=-1]Romans 9:20
On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it?

[size=-1]Romans 9:21
Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?

[size=-1]Romans 9:22
What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?

[size=-1]Romans 9:23
And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory,

[size=-1]Romans 9:24
even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.
[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]

[size=-1][size=-1][size=-1][size=-1][size=-1][size=-1]That is my answer to your question, but might I suggest that this thread has run its course, and any further discussions along these lines would be more appropriate in the other threads started by Reformationist. These would be either "Who dunit?" or "How do you view God?" Or start another thread for yourself.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]

[size=-1][size=-1][size=-1][size=-1][size=-1][size=-1]In Christ's service,[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]

[size=-1][size=-1][size=-1][size=-1][size=-1][size=-1]Jerome
[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]

Reformationist · Aug 12, 2003

boughtwithaprice said:
Although it appears that you have asked in a pejorative way, TrueFaith, you do bring up an interesting question. My answer is that we are not God's playthings, but we are God's creation. He is free to do with us as He wishes. He is thrice Holy (Holy, Holy, Holy) and in need of nothing. He doesn't need our love, praise, obedience or approval. He freely chose to create us in order to demonstate to us His glory, mercy, justice, love and wrath; not that He needs an ego boost, but it is good for us that we know Him in this way. I can't say that it is good for the reprobate because they will burn in the lake of fire, but we know that they exist because God's word says they do.

Romans 9:18
So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

[size=-1]Romans 9:19
You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?"

[size=-1]Romans 9:20
On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it?

[size=-1]Romans 9:21
Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?

[size=-1]Romans 9:22
What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?

[size=-1]Romans 9:23
And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory,

[size=-1]Romans 9:24
even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.
[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]

[size=-1][size=-1][size=-1][size=-1][size=-1][size=-1]That is my answer to your question, but might I suggest that this thread has run its course, and any further discussions along these lines would be more appropriate in the other threads started by Reformationist. These would be either "Who dunit?" or "How do you view God?" Or start another thread for yourself.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]

[size=-1][size=-1][size=-1][size=-1][size=-1][size=-1]In Christ's service,[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]

[size=-1][size=-1][size=-1][size=-1][size=-1][size=-1]Jerome
[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]

Hmmm...Jerome, I must say, that was very nicely said and supported.

Blessings to you my friend.

God bless,
Don

suzie · Aug 12, 2003

In order to have free will we had to have an option. God gave Adam and Eve that option, knowing that they would fall to temptation. The desire to eat the apple is when sin occurred. Their desire for what they could not have became greater than their desire to be obedient to God's Law.

TrueFaith · Aug 13, 2003

boughtwithaprice said:
Although it appears that you have asked in a pejorative way, TrueFaith, you do bring up an interesting question. My answer is that we are not God's playthings, but we are God's creation. He is free to do with us as He wishes. He is thrice Holy (Holy, Holy, Holy) and in need of nothing. He doesn't need our love, praise, obedience or approval. He freely chose to create us in order to demonstate to us His glory, mercy, justice, love and wrath; not that He needs an ego boost, but it is good for us that we know Him in this way. I can't say that it is good for the reprobate because they will burn in the lake of fire, but we know that they exist because God's word says they do.

Romans 9:18
So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

[size=-1]Romans 9:19
You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?"

[size=-1]Romans 9:20
On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it?

[size=-1]Romans 9:21
Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?

[size=-1]Romans 9:22
What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?

[size=-1]Romans 9:23
And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory,

[size=-1]Romans 9:24
even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.
[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]

[size=-1][size=-1][size=-1][size=-1][size=-1][size=-1]That is my answer to your question, but might I suggest that this thread has run its course, and any further discussions along these lines would be more appropriate in the other threads started by Reformationist. These would be either "Who dunit?" or "How do you view God?" Or start another thread for yourself.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]

[size=-1][size=-1][size=-1][size=-1][size=-1][size=-1]In Christ's service,[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]

[size=-1][size=-1][size=-1][size=-1][size=-1][size=-1]Jerome
[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]

I do not want to sound pejorative. I just do not understand how a loving God can create people to go Hell. If God chose people to harden, then it is not their fault they have sinned. They have no choice in the matter because God hardened them and did not create them to be saved. Yet no matter what I do if I am in the BOOK OF LIFE I can love God but sin endlessly and it is OK because God saved me? What about when Jesus told the Apostles to remain in him or be cut off?

Reformationist · Aug 13, 2003

suzie said:
In order to have free will we had to have an option. God gave Adam and Eve that option, knowing that they would fall to temptation. The desire to eat the apple is when sin occurred. Their desire for what they could not have became greater than their desire to be obedient to God's Law.

Hello suzie.

You start by saying "In order to have free will..." I'm curious what it is that prompts you to believe that Adam and Eve were "free" to make a decision against God. Is that just a presumption you are making or is there Scripture that led you to believe that?

The thing that confuses me about alot of opinions on this is that Adam and Eve were not created with a fallen nature, as were their progeny. From the start their desires were based on their love for God. Alot of people use the term "free will" to refer to a person's ability to choose between available options. There are some inherent problems in Adam and Eve's pre-Fall state with applying "free" to their will. I would say that Adam and Eve had the natural ability to sin. That is, they had the ability to make choices, something that is inherent to the nature of created man. Sinning was obviously an option once the Law was established so the choice was there. However, it is important that we don't jump the gun and assume that just because the choice to sin was available that Adam and Eve are equally as likely, or "free," to make that choice. You see, mankind are moral creatures as well. When Adam and Eve were created they were created with the moral desire to please and obey God. Everything they did was based on this desire. We may distinguish between the natural and moral ability of a creature but we may not separate them. Though Adam and Eve had the natural ability to choose to sin, in their original state they did not have the moral ability to choose to sin. So, in essence, they weren't "free" to choose to disobey God.

God bless

Reformationist · Aug 13, 2003

TrueFaith said:
I do not want to sound pejorative. I just do not understand how a loving God can create people to go Hell.

See, now saying "I just do not understand how..." is way more sound than saying "He didn't..." Well done. There are factors to God's nature that you must take into account when addressing the works of God. First off, God is a God of love but that does not mean that He loves everyone. In fact, God only loves those who are His. Second, God is also a Just God. He abhors sin, as should we and is completely just in punishing it. He is not obligated in any way to restrain us from being sinful. We choose to be sinful. That's why it's His grace that we give thanks for. If He owed us that restraint it wouldn't be grace, it would be the wages of our existence as His creation. Additionally, we know from Scripture that God created all things created, God is omniscient, and God judges some people to hell. These things are not disputed within the church. So, we must either conclude that God knew when He created certain people that they would end up in hell and chose to create them anyway because that was His desire, or, He knew and couldn't stop it from coming to pass, or, He didn't know. I, myself, am going to consider God as the sovereign God that He is and that nothing is outside of His power and say that God knew and created them anyway because that was His desire for those people in the first place. And, when we acknowledge that it is only by the unmerited favor of God that any believe in the first place then we can see that God owed no one salvation and therefore did no one wrong by not saving them. Some got mercy. Some got Justice. No one got injustice.

And, if it helps, we are given a reason for God doing this exact thing in Scripture:

Romans 9:22-24
What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

The Holy Lord will endure the sinfulness of those He had created for destruction (condemnation) until He has gathered unto Himself the fullness of His flock, those He had prepared beforehand for glory (salvation). Why did He do this? "To show His wrath and make His power known." He does it for His own glory.

If God chose people to harden, then it is not their fault they have sinned. They have no choice in the matter because God hardened them and did not create them to be saved.

It's seems as if you're confused on what it means for God to "harden" someone. You see, according to the Word, we are by nature hardened against God. We rebell. We flee. We are children of wrath, by nature. Our thoughts and our deeds are wickedly evil (in comparison to God) from the womb. God does not work fresh evil into a person's heart, nor does He need to. When the Bible says that God hardened someone's, like Pharaoh's, heart" what it means is that He withdrew the restraining grace from that person, which He is not obligated to provide in the first place, and let them follow the natural inclinations of their depravity. He doesn't do something to make them worse. He just doesn't stop them from being as bad as they naturally are.

Yet no matter what I do if I am in the BOOK OF LIFE I can love God but sin endlessly and it is OK because God saved me?

Jesus said, "If you love Me, keep my commandments" (John 14:15). Here again, "If someone says, 'I love God,' and hates his brother, he is a liar" (1 John 4:20).

You see, your faith is made perfect by your works. That is to say that your works show your faith to be true.

What you ask is a contradiction. You said, "I can love God but sin endlessly and it is OK because God saved me?" There is no such thing as a person who loves God and sins without desiring to be obedient. Salvation is not a license for immorality. On the contrary, redemption is our reason for godly living. A faith that does not produce godly works is no faith at all.

What about when Jesus told the Apostles to remain in him or be cut off?

Where are you talking about so that we may look at it in context?

God bless

Luchnia · Aug 14, 2003

The hardest work a man will ever do is to believe. Men will fight God every step of the way, until they decide to believe or reject Him. God's choice is based on belief of the truth.

Word up!

Reformationist · Aug 14, 2003

Luchnia said:
The hardest work a man will ever do is to believe. Men will fight God every step of the way, until they decide to believe or reject Him. God's choice is based on belief of the truth.

So your contention, though it isn't on topic, is that God chooses us based on our belief, is that accurate?

Word up!

Up where?

suzie · Aug 15, 2003

You start by saying "In order to have free will..." I'm curious what it is that prompts you to believe that Adam and Eve were "free" to make a decision against God. Is that just a presumption you are making or is there Scripture that led you to believe that?

The thing that confuses me about alot of opinions on this is that Adam and Eve were not created with a fallen nature, as were their progeny. From the start their desires were based on their love for God. Alot of people use the term "free will" to refer to a person's ability to choose between available options. There are some inherent problems in Adam and Eve's pre-Fall state with applying "free" to their will. I would say that Adam and Eve had the natural ability to sin. That is, they had the ability to make choices, something that is inherent to the nature of created man. Sinning was obviously an option once the Law was established so the choice was there. However, it is important that we don't jump the gun and assume that just because the choice to sin was available that Adam and Eve are equally as likely, or "free," to make that choice. You see, mankind are moral creatures as well. When Adam and Eve were created they were created with the moral desire to please and obey God. Everything they did was based on this desire. We may distinguish between the natural and moral ability of a creature but we may not separate them. Though Adam and Eve had the natural ability to choose to sin, in their original state they did not have the moral ability to choose to sin. So, in essence, they weren't "free" to choose to disobey God.

God bless

Adam and Eve had the ability to choose. They were given the ability to choose to rebel or obey God. The temptation to eat the fruit placed a desire in them to gain immediate gratification over the forbiddance issued by God. They did not understand the enormity or consequences of what they were to do. Sin is always about moral ability.

SavedByGrace3 · Aug 15, 2003

Reformationist said:
Hey everyone.

Is a sin committed when we physically take an action or is it sin when we willfully decide to take an action, prior to physical action.

For instance, is lusting after someone a sin before we act on that inclination or is it sin even if we don't act on it?

Hi Ref..
I guess I am the odd man out and will have to disagree with most of you.

Let us reread the verses about lusting in the heart and such:

Mat 5:28 but I--I say to you, that every one who is looking on a woman to desire her, did already commit adultery with her in his heart.

The important part of this verse is the last phrase : ..."in his heart"
We see the same language in Mat 15:19
For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

Combine these verses with Mat 7:17-18
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

So from these verses we see the problem of sin is in the heart of man. I believe the entire point of the sermon on the mount was not to install a new standard of sin and righteousness... rather it was intended to bring man to the place where he saw his inner sinful nature. As unbelievers we are all evil trees because we all lusted in our heart. From out of our hearts issued all the evil things that Jesus mentioned. The whole point, I believe, was to show us we needed a new spirit within us. We needed to be born again.

Once we are born again, we no longer can sin from the heart, because we are partakers of the divine nature and we cannot sin (from the heart).

So in answer to your question: As believers we cannot sin from the heart. It is not in there. We are good trees and only good fruit will issue from us when we walk according to the inclinations of our reborn spirit. When we do commit sin, it is because we walk according the inclinations of our flesh. Gal 6

Thanks
Didy

Reformationist · Aug 15, 2003

suzie said:
Adam and Eve had the ability to choose.

Thought I just said that. As a matter of fact, I know I just said that. I just gave a more detailed explanation.

They were given the ability to choose to rebel or obey God.

Again, already said it.

The temptation to eat the fruit placed a desire in them to gain immediate gratification over the forbiddance issued by God.

And pray tell, where did the temptation to disobey God come from? Unless you're contending that God created them with a desire to rebel they never would have rebelled. Temptation doesn't make us sin. Jesus was tempted in every way that we are, yet He was without sin. What you say makes no sense with regard to creatures that are not fallen. You say "The temptation to eat the fruit placed a desire in them to gain..." According to you, the devil is responsible for the Fall of man because he tempted man. The devil cannot change the desires of a person from good to bad. He is a created being, just like the rest of us. What he does is work on our already twisted desires. If a being has no twisted desires then the temptation holds no sway over them, as is shown in the life of Christ. Christ's greatest desire was to please and obey His Father in Heaven. Therefore, when tempted He still sought to please and obey God and that is what He did.

They did not understand the enormity or consequences of what they were to do. Sin is always about moral ability.

So God was unfair in judging man sinful for their actions?

God bless

Reformationist · Aug 15, 2003

didaskalos said:
Hi Ref..
I guess I am the odd man out and will have to disagree with most of you.

Let us reread the verses about lusting in the heart and such:

Mat 5:28 but I--I say to you, that every one who is looking on a woman to desire her, did already commit adultery with her in his heart.

The important part of this verse is the last phrase : ..."in his heart"
We see the same language in Mat 15:19
For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

Combine these verses with Mat 7:17-18
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

So from these verses we see the problem of sin is in the heart of man. I believe the entire point of the sermon on the mount was not to install a new standard of sin and righteousness... rather it was intended to bring man to the place where he saw his inner sinful nature. As unbelievers we are all evil trees because we all lusted in our heart. From out of our hearts issued all the evil things that Jesus mentioned. The whole point, I believe, was to show us we needed a new spirit within us. We needed to be born again.

Once we are born again, we no longer can sin from the heart, because we are partakers of the divine nature and we cannot sin (from the heart).

So in answer to your question: As believers we cannot sin from the heart. It is not in there. We are good trees and only good fruit will issue from us when we walk according to the inclinations of our reborn spirit. When we do commit sin, it is because we walk according the inclinations of our flesh. Gal 6

Thanks
Didy

Actually, I think this is a very well thought out post.

Well done.

God bless

suzie · Aug 15, 2003

Free will is the ability to choose right or wrong. God placed the forbidden fruit in the garden--they were tempted by evil through the forbidden. They believed what temptation told them even when it contradicted God's command and they desired it. They took the fruit because they gave into their temptation or desire. We are at first told what is right and wrong. It doesnt mean anything to us because we cannot comprehend this. However, when the temptation is placed in front of us, we then have a choice to choose right or wrong. Adam and Eve gave into that temptation. Jesus in his humaness was tempted as well and yet he was without sin. He did what adam and eve couldnt.

When is it sin?

When have we sinned?

When you physically act upon your desire

When you willfully entertain sinful desires

Other (please explain)

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Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam

Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam

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Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam

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Jesus is Lord of ALL! (Not asking permission)

Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam

Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam

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