"When I kill one I create three"

[Vylo]

(1) They get even madder and fight harder or (2) They[civilians] are so scared that they turn in the insurgents instead of helping them

They will go for the first part of # 2 and all of #1. When you fear something, you often seek to destroy it to aleviate that fear.

You start wiping 'em out a few thousand at a time and they won't triple.

True, that will probably make them increase tenfold or more. People tend to get a bit worked up about genocide.

Then drop more neutron bombs on the entire Middle East. They will eventually surrender or die. You don't coddle your enemies and try to reason with them if they want to kill you. You kill them first. First rule of warfare as ugly as it is

Ah yes you kill them first right? So when we drop a neutron bomb on the middles east, every other nation witnesses our capacity to wipe out tens/hundreds of millions of innocent people (they live there too btw) with the use of nuclear weaponry.

This makes the U.S. an imminent threat to every other nation in the world. I don't know about you, but if I was the leader of a nation, and I saw another nation start dropping nuclear weapons on a population, I would attack that nation with everything I had, using whatever tactics necessary, until they either submitted and dismantled their entire military, or until they were utterly destroyed.

This is how cataclysms occur.

 

[Norseman]

I think that the problem is, we can't stop insurgency through "enemy-friendly" tactics. We need to have a "if your outside with an rpg you are dead policy", and in areas we know to be unloyal and unfriendly to us; if an attack takes place you take 100 males and kill them.
There are two ways this can turn out (1) They get even madder and fight harder or (2) They[civilians] are so scared that they turn in the insurgents instead of helping them.

The fear of a loved one dying is a powerful incentive. But Arabs seem to be those kind of people where when you slap them in the face they respect you.

Hmm. Let's turn the tables, step into someone else's shoes for a moment here, ok?

You're an American citizen. Your President has been accused of mistreating the American people (and rightly so, he killed thousands of our people) by communist China. They launch an attack to liberate us by forcing him out of government, and killing everyone still loyal to him. People cheer, at first, to have the murderer brought down. But then, China decides they want to make us communist as well, and they occupy our country. On average, over 100 innocent civilians die daily during the occupation, among our own patriots who resist them, and numerous foreign allies. Then, they enact your idea. They start murdering us by the thousands, terrorizing our people, and targeting civilians. They will kill us all. Then, your only son is taken to be executed for another insurgent's fighting. Will you stand there and let them murder everyone you love, or will you help to destroy them before they destroy you? Will you fight alone, or will you rally your people to take back your country?

Back on our side of the line, I think you can see why your idea would fail. Once the genocide starts, not one of them would help us. No more info, no more nothing. Total intelligence shutdown, and entire towns flocking to the cause of resistance. The only way to handle it is to kill every last one of them indiscriminately. And once you go there, every other country in the world will see you for what you are and they will destroy you or die trying.

 

[Sycophant]

Hmm. Let's turn the tables, step into someone else's shoes for a moment here, ok?

You're an American citizen. Your President has been accused of mistreating the American people (and rightly so, he killed thousands of our people) by communist China. They launch an attack to liberate us by forcing him out of government, and killing everyone still loyal to him. People cheer, at first, to have the murderer brought down. But then, China decides they want to make us communist as well, and they occupy our country. On average, over 100 innocent civilians die daily during the occupation, among our own patriots who resist them, and numerous foreign allies. Then, they enact your idea. They start murdering us by the thousands, terrorizing our people, and targeting civilians. They will kill us all. Then, your only son is taken to be executed for another insurgent's fighting. Will you stand there and let them murder everyone you love, or will you help to destroy them before they destroy you? Will you fight alone, or will you rally your people to take back your country?

No no, but that's not what's happening at all.
Firstly, Saddam was Evil.
Secondly, it's just evil terrorists who hate Freedom that are fighting, not Iraqis, or anything.
Thirdly, the innocent Iraqis who die, or lose friends and family should be grateful to the US for liberating them.

 

[gnine]

To deal with these people you must do things which may seem wrong, Chirst told his follows to sell all their good and buy them a sword if they must. Here we need the sword, I do not wish death upon the earth, yet I would rather they be dead than our own men, is that a crime?

How often have I heard that rationalisation...

Have a look at this from another thread of mine...

Look at the context:

"Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?"
"Nothing," they answered.
He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. "

And then the disciples say

Luke 22:38
The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied.

enough what?

Either its a rebuke for the disciples being thick, or thats enough swords.

If its the former, then it speaks for itself. If the latter, then there is a problem. Let me explain:

• 2 swords amongst 12 men - thats hardly enough even for self defence. Maybe for the 2 who have the sword, but what about the other 10?

• The word for "sword" is "small sword" - not much good agaist a large sword or spear.

But more seriously, immediately afterwards Christ went to the garden and was arrested,

• Peter used one of those swords and was rebuked for using it

• and then Christ says:

"for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

seems fairly plain to me. Or did Christ contradict Himself?

• and then undoes the work of the sword.

• And then of course, not once in the entire New Testament was this "command" to carry a sword for "self defence" ever carried out. If it was as you said - how come Paul didn't fight back when they were coming for him? How come Paul never urged his flock to also arm themselves for self defence?

I think its got more to do with the context of when Christ said this confusing statement:

36He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. 37It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'[2] ; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."

Immediately afterwards, he talks about being numbered with the transgressors - i.e. criminals. And like criminals, it is an ironic or even mournful stab at the fact that criminals carry swords, purses and even bags to carry loot. As an oblique prophesy, it was certainly true, as tradition holds that all of the disciples were executed.

I'm not going to go to the cross on that interpretation, but at least it doesn't fly in the face of the rest of the NT and make all the rest of the apostles look like false teachers.

Bless you. I'd have to be very, very sure of myself before I abandoned the clear teachings of Christ regarding gentleness and love your enemies, before abandoning it for man-made conglomerates like "Just War Theory".

That is all.

 

[BeamMeUpScotty]

So funny. What do democrats anything about fighting a war? US lost in Vietnam (or should I say "quit") on the soil of San Francisco streets and other streets in the US. The US were fighting against two fronts: Viet-cong and the liberals. Now, the liberals are at it again by shooting itself on the foot through the media, ill spoken senators, protesting organizations, etc. I have always believe that If I ever go to war with a liberal, I might as well go alone. Don't need any heavy baggage pulling me down.

The moment there are no war protesters, there will be one of two situations: 1) all war has ended; 2) all hope for humanity has disappeared.

Which is more patriotic--to forgoe your constitutional right to free speech out of fear, or to use it?

 

[ScottishJohn]

HHHHmmmm lets all think.....German during WWII reduced such action by doing as I said. And I think there was another little nation that did it as well...............oh yeah Rome thats it I knew there was some small nation that did it...

I also seem to remember that Germany was overthrown - and that at NO time during the war was there no terrorist / patriot resistance to German Occupation despite the fierce reprisals. There was a strong resistance in every conquered country right up to the end of the War, so NO the Germans created that resistance through their actions and totally failed to snuff it out.

As for Rome, they withdrew from Britian because of Isurgency. Perhaps it would be best if you showed me which events during the 500 years of Roman Republic and 500 years of the Roman Empire you are talking about, and bear in mind that there are not many who would use Roman tactics today - for instance putting prisoners in the ring to fight bears and lions etc - and that with the kind of communications and weaponry possible today that insurgency is a very different thing.

 

[Praise2God]

Typical black and white thinking - if I am against the current war in Iraq, I must be a Saddam supporter.

No other reason to think otherwise.

War corporporatism and the industrial-military complex. Ahhh, not quite. Iraq is now in even greater danger of becoming a cruel and tyrannical theocracy like some of it's neighbours - neighbours the US supports, btw.

And don't forget the protest organizations. The made mucho $$$$$.

As the old saying goes - new boss just like the old boss.

How?

War corporatism and the military-industrial complex.Nope. Strawman.

Because you can't answer the question

This is a laughable statement. The US supports many oppressive leaders around the globe (in many cases actively nurturing and appeasing them).

Name them. And what did the US do afterwards.

 

[Praise2God]

...Which is more patriotic--to forgoe your constitutional right to free speech out of fear, or to use it?

You have the right to hate your own country. You have the right to be unpatriotic. You have the right to slam your own country. You have the right to raise NAZI or communist flag in front of your house. You can do those and more in what country? The US. And numerous men and women who have died in the past present and the future to just give you the freedom to do it. No matter how ungrateful one is.

 

[southernmissfan]

You have the right to hate your own country. You have the right to be unpatriotic. You have the right to slam your own country. You have the right to raise NAZI or communist flag in front of your house. You can do those and more in what country? The US. And numerous men and women who have died in the past present and the future to just give you the freedom to do it. No matter how ungrateful one is.

Wow, so anyone who opposes war, or say, dropping bombs on children, hates their country and is unpatriotic?

Oh, and kudos on the Nazi/Communist reference.

No wonder revolutions end up so bloody...

 

[platzapS]

You have the right to hate your own country. You have the right to be unpatriotic. You have the right to slam your own country. You have the right to raise NAZI or communist flag in front of your house. You can do those and more in what country? The US. And numerous men and women who have died in the past present and the future to just give you the freedom to do it. No matter how ungrateful one is.

You not only have the right to protest your own country, but if your country is doing something horribly wrong, you have the patriotic obligation to stand up for what you think is right. Some who protest the war may be "ungrateful", "hateful" or anti-American. But the vast majority are standing up for what they think is right. These protestors want to see a better America, and help the government make the right decisions so that we can continue living in a stable democracy that is not hated by every other country in the world.

 

[platzapS]

I can't believe that some people are (seriously?) suggesting dropping nuclear bombs on the entire Middle East. If the US government did so, I would immediately protest. If I couldn't protest, I would probably revoke my citizenship to my terrorist nation (the US under the rule of crazy war-mongers) and move to Canada, or Britain, or France.

Even from a totally selfish point of view, we shouldn't indiscriminately nuke the entire Arab world. Even a right-wing nutjob would dislike the results:

1) France, and every other free nation in the world, would be whining about how we committed war crimes.

2)Huge hordes of those hippy peace activists would be blocking the highways on which you drive your TrueAmerican(tm) SUV.

3) If there was no one left in Saudi Arabia, we wouldn't be getting much oil. Gas prices would skyrocket.

4) The entire world would be against us. Combined, they have a lot of military and economic power. The US wouldn't be the Top Dog anymore.

As an American, I ask that people in the rest of the world realize that not all Americans are evil. I love you guys.

Peace.

 

[southernmissfan]

I can't believe that some people are (seriously?) suggesting dropping nuclear bombs on the entire Middle East. If the US government did so, I would immediately protest. If I couldn't protest, I would probably revoke my citizenship to my terrorist nation (the US under the rule of crazy war-mongers) and move to Canada, or Britain, or France.

Even from a totally selfish point of view, we shouldn't indiscriminately nuke the entire Arab world. Even a right-wing nutjob would dislike the results:

1) France, and every other free nation in the world, would be whining about how we committed war crimes.

2)Huge hordes of those hippy peace activists would be blocking the highways on which you drive your TrueAmerican(tm) SUV.

3) If there was no one left in Saudi Arabia, we wouldn't be getting much oil. Gas prices would skyrocket.

4) The entire world would be against us. Combined, they have a lot of military and economic power. The US wouldn't be the Top Dog anymore.

As an American, I ask that people in the rest of the world realize that not all Americans are evil. I love you guys.

Peace.

The "nuke em all" idea is a lot more common than you'd think. I can't tell you how many times I've heard that.

And I wouldn't be protesting, I'd be fighting.

 

[platzapS]

Reminds me of Political Science

No one likes us-I don't know why
We may not be perfect, but heaven knows we try
But all around, even our old friends put us down
Let's drop the big one and see what happens

We give them money-but are they grateful?
No, they're spiteful and they're hateful
They don't respect us-so let's surprise them
We'll drop the big one and pulverize them

Asia's crowded and Europe's too old
Africa is far too hot
And Canada's too cold
And South America stole our name
Let's drop the big one
There'll be no one left to blame us

We'll save Australia
Don't wanna hurt no kangaroo
We'll build an All American amusement park there
They got surfin', too

Boom goes London and boom Paree
More room for you and more room for me
And every city the whole world round
Will just be another American town
Oh, how peaceful it will be
We'll set everybody free
You'll wear a Japanese kimono
And there'll be Italian shoes for me

They all hate us anyhow
So let's drop the big one now
Let's drop the big one now

 

[Milla]

You have the right to hate your own country. You have the right to be unpatriotic. You have the right to slam your own country. You have the right to raise NAZI or communist flag in front of your house.

Whoa, there's a communist flag? Where can I get one?

 

[Praise2God]

Whoa, there's a communist flag? Where can I get one?

Why...at your local Liberal-R-Us store, of course, silly.

 

[fieldy]

I think I'm going to vote communist.

 

[southernmissfan]

Why...at your local Liberal-R-Us store, of course, silly.

Now I'm thinking this is just a joke account....

 

[blueapplepaste]

Name them. And what did the US do afterwards.

Well, we armed Saddam to begin with. We also supported the Taliban. We have only ourselves to blame for our current situation.

What about China? Saudia Arabia? We continue to support them and yet they are some of the most repressive governments. Russia is taking steps away from democracy...

Basically our government and the administration is for a "free nation" if its in our econimic interest and just turn a blind eye if it isn't.

 

[Praise2God]

Well, we armed Saddam to begin with. We also supported the Taliban. We have only ourselves to blame for our current situation.

What about China? Saudia Arabia? We continue to support them and yet they are some of the most repressive governments. Russia is taking steps away from democracy...

Basically our government and the administration is for a "free nation" if its in our econimic interest and just turn a blind eye if it isn't.

China- We are not supporting them compare to...let's say...Japan. What we are doing is appealing to them for better treatment of their people. And we are taking steps for economic reprisal against them currently because of their economic unfairness.

Taliban-We supported them against the Soviet Union and none after that. Hence, that was one of the criticism--for leaving too hastily after Soviet pull-outs.

Saudia Arabia-The oppressive thing about them is against women's rights, crime punishment techniques, and wahibism (?). Otherwise, it's great for men.

These countries are not good examples. I am talking about countries that are killing their own people and so on.

 

[armyman_83]

ok dude, where in the New Testament does God say that its ok to terrorise your enemies?

Can't you see... ? You believe exactly the same thing as you believe the people you're fighting against believe.

Where in the NT does Christ to tell us to free our slaves? Does that mean that we keep slaves? Of course not, Christ came to fullfill the law not do away with it.