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When i am weak......."THEN.

Discussion in 'Discipleship: Following Jesus' started by Sidon, May 30, 2021.

  1. Sidon

    Sidon Well-Known Member

    United States
    Lets look at some verses together, that are life changing within their personal application.
    "when i am weak, then i am strong."

    Now let me give you a unique understanding of this verse which will help you go deeper into the true understanding of God's Blood Atonement, that is KEY to sustaining a perfected discipleship.

    Look at these these 2 verses.. Paul teaching.

    1. """As many as be PERFECT"
    2. ""the fullness of the stature of Christ."""

    See those 2?
    That is you, as completed on this earth, as a perfected Disciple of Jesus.
    Now, keep in mind that you are already "made righteous", by God's blood, so, that is your born again "new Creation in Christ" which means you are eternally "ONE with God and Christ".
    But your discipleship is different, as this is your continuing total transformation out of this world, while still living in it.
    "be IN the world but not OF the world".
    See that? That is the final destination for you down here, and once are you are there, you are both "perfect", and "the fullness of Christ".

    And once again, this is your earthy existence becoming what has already happened to your Born again Spirit.
    You are told to live in this word, as a disciple, yet "not OF IT"< because your born again spirit, has already become a part of the Kingdom of God, having been "translated FROM darkness....TO LIGHT".

    Now lets look closely at : "when i am weak the i am strong", from only the spiritual standpoint, by rightly dividing the verse.

    Like this....

    "When I am weak"........ This means when your mind is renewed and you are walking in the spirit, no longer trying to perform to be accepted by God.
    The "i am" this first one, is referring to your own self effort and mental will power that tries to perform for God, vs, letting God empower you live the sanctified lifestyle.
    See that first "i am"..when "I am" weak? This is your natural mind no longer running your faith, but it's now out of the way, no longer imposing self righteousness...... in place of real faith.
    This "i am"..... has stopped being in control of how you believe.
    How will you know its gone? You will come to a place where you KNOW that the Blood of God has taken care of all your sin, and you salvation is eternally secure.
    This will become more then obvious to you. It will become a empowering Revelation..


    Notice the 2nd "i am".

    when i am weak, THEN....THEN......"i am strong".
    See the contrast now, between the first "i am" and this 2nd "i am"?
    This is the same verse, but now we are rightly dividing it, we are seeing it, in the spiritual realm, instead of just reading it, like words in a dictionary.
    So, to become the "i am" who is STRONG, .... means that when you are always resting in God's salvation, when you are mentally and spiritually always in tune with God's Grace, in your heart of faith, then GOD, who is "i am", becomes your strength.
    See it? The 1st I am, is you, the weak self righteous, and the 2nd I Am is God your Strength, as your renewed mind of correct faith.
    Same verse, rightly divided.

    This is Paul describing it like this, reader... "It is not i who live....but CHRIST who lives in me"..
    See the 2 "i ams? One is Paul and One is Christ.
    One is the weak Paul with the wrong mind, and One is the Strength of Christ that is found when Paul has a renewed mind of correct faith.

    Now Paul knew that Christ was always in Him, but he is talking about the mind that has stopped trying to be accepted by God according to performance, and has submitted to the renewed mind which is the reality of God's Grace making him eternally complete "in Christ".
    And Paul also explains it like this.... : "As Christ IS....so are the born again, IN THIS WORLD".
    See that?
    That is already your eternal Sonship status, but its not your mind of faith, until you are completely rested in God's Grace AS your peace with God AS YOUR FAITH.
    Reader, the blood of Jesus, this eternal redemption, is why God is always kept at peace with His born again redeemed, and when you live in that FAITH, then your mind is renewed by this revelation.

    See, when a believer is not resting in God's Grace, but they are trying instead to perform to stay saved, or to be accepted, then Jesus says of you...>"apart from me you can do nothing". And He's talking about those who are "In Christ" by new birth, but not resting in Him, by correct faith, which is the renewed mind.
    This is walking in the Spirit, or not.

    Now lets look at 3 more verses.... which impart the correct understanding of how to REST in God's Grace, and this become your POWER to live transformed down here..= 1.) "Christ always gives me the VICTORY".

    Notice that Paul says that Christ always......not sometimes, but ALWAYS gives him the Victory.
    What Victory?
    Over lust.
    Over fear.
    Over SELF.
    Over the devil.

    So, if you always have the Victory, then you are not going to be sinning and confessing.
    And you are always to have it, but, you cant' have it, until you leave the performance to be accepted mind, and instead always live in God's Grace, as your renewed mind of correct faith.

    Now Look carefully at these 2 verses.

    2.) Ephesians 6:10. " FINALLY, (or once and for all....get this...Paul is saying....or the main thing is ) ..."be strong IN the LORD, and in the power of HIS Might".

    See that?
    You have to LIVE THERE as your renewed mind, reader.
    That is the renewed mind of understanding or the true faith you have to submit to, vs, letting your idea of trying to make yourself and keep yourself right with God, cut off and block Christ's power .

    3.) Philippians 4:13. "I can do all thing THROUGH Christ .....who/which strengthens me.""

    And how? According to "the power of HIS Might". = There is your Victory always found.
    Not in your self effort but in God's Grace.
    That is the real faith, reader.
    The real faith is getting out of your wrong mind of willpower and performance to try to be accepted by God, and existing instead within the renewed mind that RESTS in God's Grace, which IS the Power of Christ released in you, = which becomes your deliverance and your VICTORY, continually.
    Last edited: May 30, 2021
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  2. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    Hello Sidon, [firstborn of Canaan :) ]
    This no doubt has a strong personal application, and may be compared to:

    1 Peter 5:
    Likewise you younger people, submit yourselves to your elders. Yes, all of you be submissive to one another, and be clothed with humility, for God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.
    6 Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time...
    On the other hand:
    This extends beyond our personal growth as a Christian. Paul is writing to churches, and his
    emphasis is on our fulfilling our role as a part of His Body.

    Ephesians 4:13 Until we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the
    Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.

    This is the correct comprehension of the term "In Christ".
    There is a place for considering "Christ in me, the hope of glory";
    and there is a place for considering us "In Christ".

    Ephesians 1:
    22 And He put all under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all to the church,
    23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all, in all.

    Be blessed in being a blessing to His Body, your beloved friends In Christ.
  3. Akita Suggagaki

    Akita Suggagaki Well-Known Member

    United States
    John has been speaking to me.
    16:31 “Do you now believe?” Jesus replied. 32 “A time is coming and in fact has come when you will be scattered, each to your own home. You will leave me all alone. Yet I am not alone, for my Father is with me.

    33 “I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”

    He knew what was coming but his sense of the Father still gave him peace. Garden of Gethsemani not withstanding. Even at peace in his agony. Ah, to be born again from above.
  4. Sidon

    Sidon Well-Known Member

    United States

    Paul says that until we all come to the unity of THE Faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God., to a perfect man.....

    So, that has one meaning, which is.....

    1. Unity of the faith, means to become in union with God, as faith is counted as righteousness.
    2. Faith in what? = the KNOWLEDGE of the Son of God.......or, to BELIEVE in Jesus... that is coming to full knowledge of the SON of God.
    3. The "perfect man", is the inner man, the new creation, that is born again as "the righteousness of God, in Christ".

    But there is more...
    Another deeper level, that Paul is referring to...
    Its this.

    So, not being in unity of the Faith......explains why people fight on fourms, and why you have 40,000 denominations on earth, yet in Heaven, there are NO Denominations.

    Reader..... until we all believe the basics regarding this verse...Hebrews 13:9, there can't be one mind...
    One mind is, "can any 2 walk together, unless they be agreed".
    So, agreement over one thing......"Salvation" and how this unity of the faith happens. Its what it means, and how its maintained which bring the unity., and not until.

    Jude says that we are to contend for the Real Faith.
    This is because there are so many hybrid variations on the real one that pretend to be the real one.
    But there is only one of these. John 14:6.

    The "perfect man" is not the behavior, or the discipleship....as Paul is not talking about our behavior.
    He's referring to the renewed mind, this is the "PERFECT" that Parl is talking about= its the mind of Christ, that is Perfect, and our inner man, the enlightened eye, is perfected when our renewed mind has occurred, as it will reflect God's perspective which is the mind of Christ.

    All Christian struggle to become "perfect"..... isn't so much related to the DEVIL, as its related to a misunderstanding and a lack of understanding regarding who we have become "in Christ".
    The correct understanding : is the renewed mind.
    Once that is in place then the issues with self and the world and the devil, stop being the believer's hurdle, and these then have become under the dominion of Grace.

    God is our strength, Grace is our Power, and Righteousness is our status, as the born again.
    To live in THERE, in your HEAD, is a renewed mind...... and the world, the flesh, and the devil, have no authority there.
    They only have power when a believer is fallen from Grace, and is trying to hang on their own cross of effort and "self"., which is the unrenewed mind, ...... what Paul is referring to in Galatians when he says of these believers that they are "in the flesh", and are "bewitched".
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  5. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

    "Unique"? What does this mean? Often, in my experience, this word is used to describe teaching that is not actually biblical, that twists Scripture to fit some novel idea held by the one doing the twisting. I hope this isn't the case with your "unique understanding."

    Generally, it's a "red flag" when verses are not offered in their entirety and within their immediate context. Those who lift phrases out of verses often do so in order to offer teachings from them that the entire verse and its immediate context would prevent. I hope this isn't your strategy.

    Philippians 3:12-16 (NASB)
    12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.
    13 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,
    14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
    15 Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you;
    16 however, let us keep living by that same standard to which we have attained.

    So, Paul says in verse 12 that he had not become perfect, that he had not yet obtained what he had just described in verses 8-11, but was "pressing on" so that he might at some point in the future lay hold of it. Here's what Paul had not yet obtained:

    Philippians 3:8-11 (NASB)
    8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ,
    9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,
    10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death;
    11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

    In particular, verses 10 and 11 are in view in Paul's remarks in verse 12 and following. He had not yet obtained a complete experience of the power of Christ's resurrection, the fellowship of his sufferings, total conformation to Christ's death and a physical resurrection from the dead. What, then, does Paul mean when he says in verse 15, "Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude"? He had only just said in verse 12 that he wasn't "perfect," that he had not yet obtained important elements in his life as a Christ-follower.

    In this passage from Philippians 3, the word "perfect" in koine Greek carries the idea of completion, of something being fulfilled or finished. "Perfect" is not, in this instance, indicating literal perfection of the sort only God Himself possesses, nor is Paul writing about his spiritual position in Christ, but his practical outworking of that life in his daily experience.

    The phrase "as many as are perfect" is not, therefore, indicating that every Christian is a "perfected disciple of Jesus." In context, Paul is talking about a completed experience, a fulfilled or finished experience, a mature experience, of the practical outworking of the spiritual life God has worked into the believer by His Spirit, which he wrote he had not yet achieved.

    Ephesians 4:11-15 (NASB)
    11 And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,
    12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ;
    13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.
    14 As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;
    15 but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ,

    In context, the phrase "to the fullness of (the stature of) Christ" is not a declaration to believers that they are perfect but is only a part of a larger thought Paul is communicating about the progressive maturation of believers to the point where they are no longer "children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine." He is not writing to the Ephesians in the passage above that they are "perfected disciples of Jesus," but that, over time as they are taught and stabilized in their walk with God by those in the Church spiritually gifted by God to "build up the Body of Christ," they may attain to a full, finished, complete, mature experience of Christ.

    Neither of the phrases you've lifted out of context actually speak to the idea of a Christian being a "perfected disciple of Jesus."

    In the believer's spiritual position in Christ, they are perfectly justified and sanctified, which they must be in order to be accepted by God as His own. (1 Corinthians 1:30; Ephesians 1:6; 2 Corinthians 5:17) But in a believer's daily condition, in how they actually live every day, they will be like the apostle Paul who had not yet attained or was already perfect (Philippians 3:12) but was constantly "pressing on" toward the goal of a full experience of the life of Christ. In the life of every believer there is a huge difference between their position in Christ and their condition. Spiritual "perfection," spiritual maturity, is the process whereby one's condition comes to match, more and more, one's spiritual position.

    In discipleship, it's important to clarify what "one with Christ" means. It does not mean I take on all the infinite, perfect attributes of God, that I come to possess His divine nature completely in all respects. Such an idea is blasphemous, of course, falling prey to the devil's temptation for mere created beings to "be as God." I am a "joint-heir" with Christ (Romans 8:17) by my union with him, I am seated with him in heavenly places spiritually (Ephesians 2:6), but "putting on Christ" (Romans 13:14) no more makes me Christ than putting on a bear skin coat makes me a bear.

    It is not possible to "rightly divide the word of truth" by removing portions of a verse from their context and forcing a view into them. It is only by way of the context in which a verse or phrase appears that we can understand its actual meaning.

    2 Corinthians 12:7-10 (NASB)
    7 Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me—to keep me from exalting myself!
    8 Concerning this I implored the Lord three times that it might leave me.
    9 And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.
    10 Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ's sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong.

    Is this what Paul wrote? In context, he is writing of a physical affliction, a "thorn in the flesh," when he wrote of "when I am weak," not of walking in the Spirit.

    ??? This is nowhere evident in what Paul wrote. His weakness was a physical one, in the flesh, not a problem of trying to serve God from self-will and effort. When Paul's physical weakness could not be remedied by divine healing, Paul resigned himself to it, trusting in God's power to make up for his physical deficit.

    ??? I'm afraid you're just forcing your own notions into Paul's words here. It is true we ought not allow a "fleshly mind" to order our living, but in Paul's words in 2 Corinthians 12:7-10, this is not what he is talking about. He is describing his trust in God to overcome a divinely-given physical weakness, not instructing believers to avoid letting their natural mind run their faith.

    You could find other verses/passages that better support your ideas. Why have you chosen to use these verses/passages to do so, wresting them violently in the process?

    ??? Um, "in the spiritual realm" seems to be code for "in whatever way I want to construe them." In doing this, you've run off completely from Paul's actual meaning. What limiting principle is there to the "seeing in the spiritual realm"? I mean, if we can all just force our own "spiritual" ideas into whatever passage we like, why bother with the Bible at all? If it doesn't mean what it says, if it is plastic, flexing to accommodate whatever notions we want to impose on it, what authority does Scripture actually have? None, that I can see. The real authority is the reader, conforming the Bible to suit their ideas rather than conforming themselves to the word of God.

    It is impossible not to read the words in the Bible "like words in a dictionary." If the words we read in the pages of the Bible don't have a generally-agreed-upon meaning, if they don't have a set, established referential function, then Scripture is meaningless. If a given word can mean whatever we want it to mean, and we use it in a completely different sense than the next person, the word ceases to be useful as a linguistic referent. If Bob is wanting Sam to look at a horse, but calls the horse a "bus," and Sam calls it a "rubber boot," how in the world is Bob ever going to get Sam to look at the horse? Pointing, I suppose, but words in this scenario have no ability to refer accurately to anything because there is no agreed-upon meaning to the words. Likewise, if we start thinking we can make Scripture say whatever we like by calling our eisegesis "spiritual seeing," we will soon empty Scripture of any meaning; for the next believer can come along and say that the same verse, interpreted through their "spiritual seeing," means something else entirely.

    ??? Yikes. See above.

    Why didn't you just make your points from Galatians 2:20, then? It would have served much better in making your points, not requiring all the enormous twisting of Scripture you've done.

    This is turning into spiritual gobbedly-gook. Where in Scripture can one read: stop trying to be accepted by God according to performance and submit to the renewed mind which is the reality of God's grace making him eternally complete in Christ? It's like you've strung together a bunch of Christian catch-phrases in an effort to sound spiritually arcane. Where are we told in Scripture to "submit to the renewed mind"? We are told instead our minds are "being renewed in knowledge" of Christ (Colossians 3:10) which is an on-going, active process, as Paul wrote in Philippians 3:12-14. Where are we told in Scripture, "the renewed mind is the reality of God's grace"? Nowhere that I know of.

    1 Corinthians 15:51-57 (NASB)
    51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
    52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
    53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.
    54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.
    56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;
    57 but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

    In context, what was Paul talking about when he wrote of God always giving the victory? He is speaking particularly of victory over death. (see verse 55) Yes, in Christ, the believer has victory over the things you listed, but this passage is not talking about victory over those things. Paul is writing about the believer's victory, obtained in and through Christ, over death. Why misuse Paul's words here when you could have offered a number of other verses that clearly indicate the believer's victory in Christ over the World, the Flesh and the devil?

    Paul's recipe for a joyful, victorious life is laid out very well in Romans 6. Knowledge of (verse 1), and faith in (verse 11), one's union with Christ in his death, burial and resurrection, of one's "new creature" status in him, and submission to God (verse 13-22) are what bring every believer into rich, deep fellowship with God and freedom from the "old man," unregenerate Self.

    Brother, I appreciate your desire to be a teacher of the word, and to exhort your spiritual family to a deeper walk with God, but the way you've (mis)handled Scripture here is not the way to do either thing. Much of what you've written I agree with in principle, but you could have used all sorts of other passages of Scripture that much more plainly ground your thoughts and assertions rather than contorting phrases from verses to serve your views.
  6. Sidon

    Sidon Well-Known Member

    United States
    You posted a mile of your self confusion.
    Let me help you.

    Your issue, one of them, is that you use commentaries more than the bible.
    You use verses as a little pack, a little group, that someone led you to believe, in error, in a commentary. Or its possible that you have a terrible bible, that runs verses, in total error.
    Thats also possible, and its possible you have both.

    See, if you had the revelation i taught in this Thread, you would not have stopped here....>"that which i would do, i dont do, and that which i would do, i can't".
    Which is what you are trying to prove that Paul is ONLY teaching.

    See, in Philippians, Paul shows us that our works we do to try to be righteous, are dung.
    In Romans, Paul shows you, how he walks in the renewed minds, as this... "Christ always gives me the Victory"..

    So,what you did, is the most common error that legalist all commit.
    They teach only where Paul is talking about having trouble, and never go on and post the verses where he learned how to : "Christ always gives me the Victory".

    So, what Paul discovered is what my Thread teaches.
    its really just the simple understanding of the power of victory found in Christ that is our power of perfected discipleship.
    Those that have it, are "the fullness of the Stature of Christ", and are "as many as be perfect"... as Paul says of THEM.
  7. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

    It's kind of you to offer, but thinking what I wrote is a "mile of self confusion" disqualifies you from being able to supply any real help to anyone.

    Or it's possible you're entirely wrong in all of this. Which you are. How do you know I use commentaries more than the Bible? How do you know I use verses "as a little pack...that someone led you to believe, etc...."? How do you know what Bible I use and its quality? The fact is, you know virtually nothing about me. You don't know what I have or haven't studied; you don't what Bible(s) I use; you have no idea, really, by what means I've arrived at my understanding of Scripture. But, boy, are you eager to guess, to make assumptions about, these things! Wow.

    No, actually, this is not the substance of my post to you at all. I guess you haven't read it carefully and understood it. This is certainly what your remarks here suggest.

    ??? Yeah, I was right: you didn't read my post carefully and you haven't understood it. Ah, well. You can lead a horse to water...

    Uh huh. This entirely misses the point(s) of my post to you. Entirely. My comments were mainly focused on your method of handling Scripture (or your lack of one, actually). I showed that taking the verses (or, rather, just pieces of them) to which you referred in your OP in their immediate context leads to a totally different interpretation from what you've offered. My aim was to demonstrate to you how basic hermeneutic principles help ensure a proper understanding of Scripture and how that justifying whatever spin on the verses you want to give them by calling it "seeing in the spiritual realm" leads to utter confusion about God's truth.
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2021
  8. Sidon

    Sidon Well-Known Member

    United States
    I wrote that you use commentaries and you didnt deny it.
    So, that's how i know.
    I see you, aiki.
    See i already knew it, which is why i pointed it out.

    And you are vastly correct. = You can lead a horse to the water.... but you can't make them drink., as proven by the fact that i lead you to this Thread, but i can't make you understand it.
    See, my Threads are spiritual, they are not generally just literal.
    So, when you read my Threads, you have to discern them, and if you can't, then they will seem, unusual.
    What does that mean for you and others like you???? It means that i can teach you, but i can't learn it for you., as you described, perfectly.

    Believers who are in tune with God's Grace, are enlightened by what i write.
    They find an inner harmony within what i teach,...while people who are devoutly religious, legalists, invested in self saving and do not understand "made righteous", read my Threads and my Posts and actually feel offended in their flesh, and want to fight with me.
    They actually feel a inner compulsion to do it.
    That's "flesh".

    That's interesting isn't it?
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2021
  9. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

    ??? I didn't confess to using them, either. You really still know nothing about my study of Scripture - except that it relies upon hermeneutic principles, chief of which is: always understand a verse in its context. It's really telling, though, that, despite your near-total ignorance about my study tools/methods, you're confident in your assumption about whether or not I study from commentaries.

    In any case, you haven't shown any good reason why anyone should avoid using commentaries in their study of Scripture. Are you not offering your own commentary on Scripture in this thread? Yes, you are. Why should we reject the commentary of others and not your own, too?

    Yeah, no...

    Actually, its because I understand your posts that I don't "drink" from them.

    So far, this appears to be your way of excusing very poor handling of Scripture. On what grounds do you make "spiritual" mean "proof-texting and wresting Scripture"? As I already explained, you are not free to shove into Scripture whatever idea you've taken up, twisting Scripture to fit your thinking. This is the approach of the false teacher, not a careful student of God's word.

    Your posts aren't unusual they're just badly mistaken. This is what I discern in them.

    Uh huh.

    This is called an Ad Hominem Argument. It's a kind of fallacious reasoning that insinuates a fault in the character of one's opponent rather than offering a defense of one's ideas themselves. You've also made an unjustified claim. On what grounds but your say-so is it true that "believers who are in tune with God's grace are enlightened by what I write"? Do you really believe merely saying this makes it a fact? I could claim a similar thing; I could say, "Only believers who are in tune with the Holy Spirit will accept all that I write." Does making this claim by itself make it true? Are you not in tune with the Holy Spirit now because you don't agree with me?

    Brother, when you set about to inform and instruct in a public forum, you are going to have your views tested and tried, examined for clarity and reason, scrutinized for accuracy. If you think what you write ought to be accepted outright, you are living in a dream world. I'm not going to embrace what you've put forward just because you've put it forward. I want to be sure its true, that it is actually biblical, so I'm going to be a "good Berean" and see if what you're writing is so. When I do, as I've shown, your "teaching" doesn't stand up. This isn't me being legalistic; it is me being careful not to accept just any old thing I come across online.

    And if anyone is "offended in their flesh," it's you. You've seemed actually very sensitive about what you've written, not defending your ideas, really, but immediately insinuating negative things about me personally, instead. This is the strategy of one who is not confident in their views, who is not used to offering a rational apologetic for their position.

    My goal isn't to fight with you. It is, rather, to challenge your ideas, to "sharpen iron," to offer you opposition, not in order to deride you as a person, but to encourage you to handle God's word well. You will answer to God one day for the things you propose to teach to others. You'd better be very, very sure, then, what you're teaching is true.

    James 3:1 (NASB)
    1 Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.

    No, this is just you trying to insulate yourself from criticism and from having to give a proper defense of your views. In fact, you're using the fallacious "Poisoning the Well" tactic here.
  10. Sidon

    Sidon Well-Known Member

    United States
    You are the proof regarding why people should not use commentaries.

    See, you said...>"what is the reason we shouldn't".
    So, there is your answer, for why you shouldn't.

    Also, if you want to "sharpen" me, then just explain this, and let us see how it goes..

    Explain: why The Blood of Jesus that Keeps you saved, always keeps you saved no matter what you do.

    So, explain that, and we can see where you are regarding your understanding of the Cross.
  11. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

    Brother, I have written extensively in defense of OSAS on CF. If you want an understanding of my views on things soteriological, just look through the posts I've written, or check out my blog page.
  12. Sidon

    Sidon Well-Known Member

    United States
    Does "OSAS" really exist, except in the mind of the person who came up with that terminology?
    Im not sure if this was someone who understands that Jesus is Eternal Life, or if it was created by a person who has fallen from Grace and does not believe that Jesus keeps them Saved.
    I know that on forums, you find the self savers, who do not believe that Jesus keeps the born again saved, hard at work.
    What i also know is that Once you are born again, you are always born again.