When Do You Forgive?

JIMINZ · Jul 30, 2018

Anguspure said:
Yes we are forgiven, but it needs to be recieved.

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No, we are only required to forgive, it doesn't matter if the person ever know it or not.
It's a commandment......"Do unto others"

JIMINZ · Jul 30, 2018

christine40 said:
reread your OP
didn't see the protection part

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There isn't it keeps getting revised as we go along.

Abaxvahl · Jul 30, 2018

Chinchilla said:
Luke 22:36-38 King James Version (KJV)
36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

I don't understand the connection here (unless this is meant to be for another post), is it violence and self-defense in the face of repeated physical abuse? I recognize the rights but would never use them.

dreadnought · Jul 30, 2018

JIMINZ said:
.
You have ignored every post I have sent to you

You seem to be trying to use one set of verses to contradict another. You can't do that. The Lord teaches us to forgive people who have repented. What's wrong with that? If you want to forgive people who haven't repented, go ahead, but don't teach newcomers they have to do it.

dreadnought · Jul 30, 2018

Anguspure said:
No, I should protect myself. But I would forgive him nevertheless.

If you refuse to open the door, then it would seem to me you haven't really forgiven them.

dreadnought · Jul 30, 2018

JIMINZ said:
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Yeah it's all on you, what God said about forgiveness doesn't matter in the least, you must have you precious Repentance before you will forgive.

No, I quoted the applicable verse. You're trying to contradict it with other verses. You can't do that. Forgive others as you'd have the Lord forgive you - it's in the Lord's prayer. If you think the Lord is going to forgive you of a sin before you repent of that sin, I believe you are kidding yourself.

dreadnought · Jul 30, 2018

christine40 said:
reread your OP
didn't see the protection part

It says forgive IF he repents.

eucatastrophe · Jul 30, 2018

What is forgiveness? What does it mean in a person to person context? When God forgives, Eternal Life is the reward. But between us it is a question of who needs it and can they accept it. You can choose not to hold blame for a transgression in your heart and tell someone so, but until they repent it does not do what it is supposed to do. It is like a battery with one pole disconnected. That is why repentance is so importance. Forgiveness is not for you but the one who has transgressed against you. You forgive them because they need it, not because they have earned it. But it is up to them to accept it and complete the circuit.

Stringfellow_Hawke · Jul 30, 2018

As hard as it is I think we should try to forgive before they ask because we cannot expect God to have the same mercy on us if we are not doing the same

Sam91 · Jul 30, 2018

I once said to someone that I forgave them for the way they spoke to me. They the apologised I then said sorry that they were hurt by something that I had done, (it wasn't done to them). It was very conciliatory forgiving someone before they were sorry.

But in general I think it is the only way to be able to pray is by not holding unforgiveness. I can't pray knowing that I am harbouring a resentment. Ephesians 4:29-31 makes it clear we can't harbour bitterness or anger. For me the only way to do that is to forgive. I have been forgiven thousands of times by the Lord. He drew me to Him when I was neck deep in sin.

People may say that there are people in my life who aren't forgiven because they are cut out of it but I don't equate forgiveness with reconciliation. I classify forgiveness as the giving up of any ill will or anger towards a person and any desire for revenge, an apology, or them to make right.

However, I do believe that redefining the boundaries of a relationship isn't to do with forgiveness but a consequence of them reaping what they sow. I think for reconciliation to take place, the other person ought to be sorry. Especially, if it was a sustained or severe act. It isn't acting in love to allow someone to keep sinning against you. It is dangerous for the sinner. There is a point where from feeling the consequences of an action a more genuine realisation can occur.

Saying that I do not believe we are a party to all that. It would be manipulative to redefine boundaries to effect an emotional change in another. The redefining the boundaries should be to protect ourselves and loved ones from harmful acts.

JIMINZ · Jul 30, 2018

dreadnought said:
You seem to be trying to use one set of verses to contradict another. You can't do that. The Lord teaches us to forgive people who have repented. What's wrong with that? If you want to forgive people who haven't repented, go ahead, but don't teach newcomers they have to do it.

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The only verses you have posted which say the are the ones in the OP.

I showed you that those verses were in relation to brothers, and not unbelievers, you cannot expect un-believers to repent, they really don't care.

JIMINZ · Jul 30, 2018

dreadnought said:
No, I quoted the applicable verse. You're trying to contradict it with other verses. You can't do that. Forgive others as you'd have the Lord forgive you - it's in the Lord's prayer. If you think the Lord is going to forgive you of a sin before you repent of that sin, I believe you are kidding yourself.

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The you haven't read any of what I have said, and you do not understand Salvation.

JIMINZ · Jul 30, 2018

eucatastrophe said:
What is forgiveness? What does it mean in a person to person context? When God forgives, Eternal Life is the reward. But between us it is a question of who needs it and can they accept it. You can choose not to hold blame for a transgression in your heart and tell someone so, but until they repent it does not do what it is supposed to do. It is like a battery with one pole disconnected. That is why repentance is so importance. Forgiveness is not for you but the one who has transgressed against you. You forgive them because they need it, not because they have earned it. But it is up to them to accept it and complete the circuit.

.
Forgiveness is most definitely for you, for without you forgiveness of those who have wronged you, you can not be forgiven your trespasses.

Persis · Jul 30, 2018

I think that we are to forgive everyone - whether they have apologized to us or not, unbeliever and believer, alike.

I think if we don't forgive everyone we will start to harbour bitterness and resentment, and that will start to dampen our spiritual life and our relationship with God. Our hearts will harden, and that is a dangerous dangerous slope to slide..

I believe as well, that we are to demonstrate and extend forgiveness, just as God has demonstrated it to us. We are to demonstrate grace and mercy to others as God has given to us. I believe this is what sets us apart from unbelievers and the world, is to not take revenge on them (hate back on them and perhaps do the same thing back to them - an eye for an eye type of thing) for what they have done, but leave that to God. That is God's job.

I think that God forgives us the moment we accepted Him as our Saviour.

I have sometimes thought about what would happen if Jesus came today, and I have not repented of some sin(s), like for example, unforgiveness. The truth of the matter, I found, is that it could be any day! It may be that someone just hurt me a minute ago, just before Jesus comes, or just before I die in some kind of sudden accident, for example. Another example is that there may be sins in my life where I may not be mature enough to have recognized yet.. In our journey, God reveals things to us not all at once, as we wouldn't be able to handle it all. As we continue to walk with the Lord and mature, I am sure we are convicted of lesser sins.

Even so, will He forgive me, and will I still be saved? I believe, yes.

Having said all that ~~ I believe, however, it is *still* important to ask God to forgive you when you recognize your sin. I think you are doing it more for yourself than God.. It's keeping the relationship open and strong, by humbling and recognizing and acknowledging who you are, and who God is. Its recognizing your need for God every day. I think if one stopped doing it, one may become careless..

Personally, I know one thing about forgiveness.. I can't do it by myself. No manner of self effort is going to help me. My flesh just screams. I cannot remember which book I read this from, but it has stayed with me ever since. It basically said that our first step is to be willing and choose to forgive. The 2nd step, is to ask the Holy Spirit to enable and help us to forgive because in our own effort we cannot; and the third is to ask the Holy Spirit to come and heal any emotional and physical wounds. The last, is to pray for the other person that they may be blessed.. and blessed may mean that the Lord will convict their heart of their wrong doing and lead them to repentence. That is really a blessing for their soul..

I totally agree with good boundaries. Just because I forgive someone, doesn't mean that I have to reconcile with them, and it doesn't mean that I have to associate with them anymore. Sometimes separation is the healthiest thing. All of this is circumstantial to the situation, and whether the other person acknowledges their wrong, as some situations can be very serious. I don't believe one should subject themselves to emotional or physical abuse. I believe that confrontation can be very necessary, otherwise, the other person may go on to hurt others.. We have Godly Laws in our Lands, and thus we have disciplinary actions and jails to protect it's citizens. If we didn't have that we would be living in total kaos..

I found myself in Romans Chapter 4 and 5 tonight, that I think addresses this topic..

Invalidusername · Jul 30, 2018

Personally I forgive others no matter what. I used to be a very unforgiving person but I've sinned against God far worse than anyone who has sinned against me. Why would I expect them to repay me their debt to me since I cannot repay the debt I have to God?

Don't forget this parable in Matthew 18:
Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand bags of goldh was brought to him. 25Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.

26“At this the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ 27The servant’s master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.

28“But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred silver coins.i He grabbed him and began to choke him. ‘Pay back what you owe me!’ he demanded.

29“His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay it back.’

30“But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31When the other servants saw what had happened, they were outraged and went and told their master everything that had happened.

32“Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ 34In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

35“This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”

Loren T. · Jul 30, 2018

If you only love those who love you what good is that? Jesus says love those who hurt you. How can you love someone and not forgive them? Doesn't mean you have to allow them to hurt you again, that is a whole other question.

Tutorman · Jul 30, 2018

dreadnought said:
The Lord tells us that we must forgive someone who has repented of their sin:

[3] Take heed to yourselves; if your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him;
[4] and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, and says, `I repent,' you must forgive him." Luke 17:3-4 RSV

However, there are those who think you should forgive before someone repents. What do you think?

When they ask for forgiveness

Tutorman · Jul 30, 2018

dreadnought said:
If someone comes to your door every day and kicks you in the shin, would you continue to open the door for him?

Day one: Open the door, get kicked in shin
Day two: Open the door, get kicked in shin
Day one: Open the door, wear metal spikes on shin do not get kicked in shin

1stcenturylady · Jul 31, 2018

dreadnought said:
The Lord tells us that we must forgive someone who has repented of their sin:

[3] Take heed to yourselves; if your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him;
[4] and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, and says, `I repent,' you must forgive him." Luke 17:3-4 RSV

However, there are those who think you should forgive before someone repents. What do you think?

Does God forgive us before we repent?

Chinchilla · Jul 31, 2018

Abaxvahl said:
I don't understand the connection here (unless this is meant to be for another post), is it violence and self-defense in the face of repeated physical abuse? I recognize the rights but would never use them.

When Jesus was with apostles he told everyone to show the second cheek if somebody slapped you on first but when he knew that his time is comming to end he told them to go back to having purse , buy sword for self defence because he will be no longer with them .

We can defend ourselfes and have rights to do so .

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