When did the Church start?

[Not David]

At Pentecost or since the beginning?

 

[Pavel Mosko]

At Pentecost or since the beginning?

Well if you want to go with the technical term of Ecclesia, "called out ones" you could start with Abraham.

But if you want to start with the conventional term of the New Covenant (standard text book answer) then yes Pentecost.

The idea of the Church starting "in the beginning" (the mind of God or even Adam and Eve) is interesting. I guess it sort of fits Divine Counsel theology of people like Heiser. And of course in Christian theology you have the "Harrowing of Hell" where the ancient patriarchs including Adam were saved when Christ descended into Hell.

 

[Pethesedzao]

At Pentecost or since the beginning?

The Church began on the Day of Pentecost although we were predestined long before the heavens and the Earth were created

 

[Residential Bob]

Some denominations, such as the Catholic Church, say the “Upper Room” (Mk 14:14-15), or Cenacle, in Jerusalem, where the Last Supper was held, is where the earliest Christian congregation gathered. Of course, this cannot be verified. Some say the earliest church was at Pentecost; some say at Antioch. The Bible doesn’t specifically confirm these claims either, and neither does history. Not even Luke asserts that a company of believers assembled in Jerusalem shortly after the crucifixion is a congregation (Acts 1:15). And of course, before any of these, congregations were gathering in people’s homes and other places that were currently in existence, including cemeteries, believe it or not. They had to, for as far as we know, no building dedicated to Christian worship existed until the middle of the third century. And no one knows where the first “home church” assembly took place. No one knows exactly when or where the first groups of Christians gathered to worship. No one knows when or where the church began.

 

[ArmyMatt]

since the beginning.

 

[AMM]

yes.

this is both-and, not either-or

 

[SingularityOne]

In the beginning.

Read St. Porphyrios' writing On The Church

 

[Not David]

yes.

this is both-and, not either-or

How?

 

[prodromos]

Garden of Eden

 

[Radagast]

Some denominations, such as the Catholic Church, say the “Upper Room” (Mk 14:14-15), or Cenacle, in Jerusalem, where the Last Supper was held, is where the earliest Christian congregation gathered. Of course, this cannot be verified. Some say the earliest church was at Pentecost; some say at Antioch.

Some say with the calling of the 12 disciples.

Others say with Matthew 28:18-20: And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Garden of Eden

but we can go even earlier, as the angels who never fell away have been worshipping God even before Eden.

 

[Radagast]

but we can go even earlier, as the angels who never fell away have been worshipping God even before Eden.

What is the Orthodox definition of the Church?

The Creed says that the Church is holy, catholic, and apostolic. Doesn't that mean it begins with, or after, the Apostles?

 

[ArmyMatt]

What is the Orthodox definition of the Church?

The Creed says that the Church is holy, catholic, and apostolic. Doesn't that mean it begins with, or after, the Apostles?

the fullness of the Church, yes. because the whole point of creation is the Incarnation. but prior to that, there has always been the assembly called out and worshipping God.

 

[AMM]

How?

like Fr Matt said. The angels have been worshipping since their creation. Christ has existed before all ages and the Church is his body. The first physical church was established in Eden. The church also existed as the tribe of Abraham, as Israel, etc. And it was brought to its earthly fulfillment at Pentecost when the disciples received the Holy Spirit. And it will be even more fulfilled, heaven and earth, at Judgment Day when the Church Triumphant and the Church Militant are united at the great resurrection, when all are transformed into glory to worship God

 

[ArmyMatt]

you can even go earlier into eternity, as Christ is the Great High Priest Who is always before His Father eternally.

 

[Phronema]

you can even go earlier into eternity, as Christ is the Great High Priest Who is always before His Father eternally.

Father, would you mind explaining this further, please? I was under the impression the Father was the Creator, and that the Son was begotten of the Father?

Does the "begotten" portion only exist for us down here while He was here with us?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Father, would you mind explaining this further, please? I was under the impression the Father was the Creator, and that the Son was begotten of the Father?

Does the "begotten" portion only exist for us down here while He was here with us?

no, all Three Persons are the Creator. the Son is eternally begotten of the Father outside of time, and He is also the Great High Priest outside of time.

 

[prodromos]

Father, would you mind explaining this further, please? I was under the impression the Father was the Creator, and that the Son was begotten of the Father?

Does the "begotten" portion only exist for us down here while He was here with us?

"Before" the Father, in the sense of standing before, not in the sense of existing before.

 

[Radagast]

nm

 

[Phronema]

no, all Three Persons are the Creator. the Son is eternally begotten of the Father outside of time, and He is also the Great High Priest outside of time.

the Great High Priest outside of time? Could you, or someone else please expand on this? Specifically the outside of time portion. I would like clarification on this, please.