When Did Satan Fall?

[Peter John]

Between Gen1v1 & 1v2, for satan polluted the earth & heavens, hence v2 saying the earth became void, & darkness was on the face of the deep.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Between Gen1v1 & 1v2, for satan polluted the earth & heavens, hence v2 saying the earth became void, & darkness was on the face of the deep.

sounds like you've been reading Creation and the Consequence of Satan's Fall by Dykstra

Interesting read! However, everything is still "all very good" much later, at the end of the 6th Divine Day (Gen 1:31) and (seemingly) on through the 7th Divine Day (Gen 2:1-3) when God, seeing all was good, did rest

Satan's rebellion in heaven (Gen 3:1) began at the end of the 7th Divine Sabbath Day, even as Satan's final rebellion on earth began at the end of the 7th Biblical Sabbath Day = Millennium (Rev 20:7)

 

[Peter John]

sounds like you've been reading Creation and the Consequence of Satan's Fall by Dykstra

Interesting read! However, everything is still "all very good" much later, at the end of the 6th Divine Day (Gen 1:31) and (seemingly) on through the 7th Divine Day (Gen 2:1-3) when God, seeing all was good, did rest

Satan's rebellion in heaven (Gen 3:1) began at the end of the 7th Divine Sabbath Day, even as Satan's final rebellion on earth began at the end of the 7th Biblical Sabbath Day = Millennium (Rev 20:7)

Never heard of that book, & yes, everything was very good, for what God had to work with, which was dust, that was made corrupt, so Adam was made with a glitch (for the want of another word) in him, ready to sin, hence the whole sovereign salvation plan of God. All worked out & predestined before the foundation of the world. Humans since Adam all have that same sinful nature, ready to sin, but its not original sin, as we are all responsible for own.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Never heard of that book, & yes, everything was very good, for what God had to work with, which was dust, that was made corrupt, so Adam was made with a glitch (for the want of another word) in him, ready to sin, hence the whole sovereign salvation plan of God. All worked out & predestined before the foundation of the world. Humans since Adam all have that same sinful nature, ready to sin, but its not original sin, as we are all responsible for own.

I can agree that reading a "gap" in between Gen 1:1-2...

which is basically saying that Gen 1:1 recalls an unspecified and potentially vast span of time prior to the onset of God's creative activity in the cosmos...

is very clever & insightful

However, while I acknowledge that Saint Augustine also read the angelic fall into verse 4 with the division of light from dark representing the expulsion of the dark fallen angels from the heavenly council... I cannot agree with that interpretation... given that God is still speaking with fallen angels including Satan in Job 1 & Psalm 82

I like the "gap" or "unspecified vast span of time" interpretation...

but cannot accept that God would survey His vast cosmic realm, including an ongoing Satanic rebellion against the same, and call it "all very good" (Gen 1:31) at the end of the 6th Divine Day...

and then "take a vacation" and rest for a 7th Divine Day (Gen 2:1-3)...

with an ongoing Satanic rebellion going on

Again, God made man then woman amidst a lush vegetative environment (Gen 1:26-30 = Gen 2:4-20) giving mankind permission to eat of every tree bearing seed (Gen 1:28 or so) but not the (seedless) Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil (Gen 2:15 or so)...

that's all the same set of events told twice...

So we can read the ToKoG&E (Gen 2:15) into the 6th Divine Day account (Gen 1:28)...

but some time afterwards (Gen 1:31) everything was still so "all very good" that God chose to rest for an entire cosmic 7th Divine Sabbath Day (Gen 2:1-3)...

all before the Nachash ("naga, snake") tempted Eve (Gen 3:1)

Please recall that the Nachash ("naga, snake") of Gen 3 is described as a Seraph ("serpent") in Isaiah 14 and as a guardian Cherub ("cobra") in Eden in Ezek 28, evidently of the same class of beings as the Cherub ("cobra") tasked to guard Eden after the fall

So, the "Snakey Serpentine Cobra" was in "Eden" as a powerful "guardian" of something... maybe the ToKoG&E ???

Everything was "very good" until one day "Eve" wandered past the "ToKoG&E" guarded by the "Snakey Serpentine Cobra"... who, evidently perceiving some sort of opportunity, recruited Eve to rebel against God's authority

Satan's rebellion began on earth, recruiting Eve on earth to the rebellion (Gen 3) was the very first act, occurring long before Satan had recruited other angelic beings in the heaven to assist him (Gen 6).

Both humans and the Adversary were cast out of Eden (Ezek 28 says "were in Eden"), though humans remained on earth and the Adversary remained in heaven...until the Cross (Rev 12)

Now the Adversary has been cast out of Eden as well as heaven, and only has some residual influence on earth with & through those humans recruited to his cause...all of whom will eventually be torched at the 2nd Coming (Rev 20:9+)

 

[Erik Nelson]

According to extra biblical traditions, God (who can see a glorious end even from a humble beginning) ordered all angels in heaven to bow to man on earth, and all bowed except Satan, who (seeing only the humble beginning?) refused to bow his (then-)illustrious self to the dirty clay-made earthlings

If so, then this decree probably did not occur on during the 7th Divine Day of sabbath rest, but was (perhaps?) the first order of business at the start of the 8th "Monday morning meeting" of His Divine Council

Announcing His decree, all the divine delegates accepted except one

If so, when the Adversary successfully recruited Eve, and through her, Adam to his thralldom (Gen 3), then, having seemingly dominated earth and become "the god of this world [earth]", his victory then inspired other angelic heavenly powers to join him...

one might infer that the Adversary communicated to the effect that God had demanded they all submit to Adam, in advance, based on his ultimately supra-angelic future status (1 Cor 6:3, Heb 1:4, Christ has a name greater than angels such that Christ-redeemed mankind will judge angels) and yet, behold, the Adversary had already dominated gullible naïve ignorant earthlings easily on his first try

So they then joined in on the intrusive invasive assault on earth (Gen 6, fallen "sons of God" breed Nimrod-like Nephilim)

maintaining the upper hand for ~5000 years (per LXX) until the Cross, about which time the rebels were finally defeated in heaven and their dwindling cosmic power limited only to earth... and even thereon contained during the Millennium...

For whatever reason(s), they will make a cosmically-brief resurgence of influence on earth after the Millennium until the 2nd Coming at Final Judgement with overwhelming heavenly firepower (Rev 20:7-9)...

at which time God and his loyal angels will have (re-)created a New Heavens & New Earth (Gen 1 take two) wherein only righteousness dwells

The language of Rev 12, "cast to the earth", seemingly conveys some sense of "being driven out of the rest of the cosmos and pursued towards earth's sector of space"... outrunning their pursuers for a time, they eventually regroup & repair en route "inbound towards earth" such that they are able to regain a brief period of dominance over earth, being "in the lead closer to our planet"... eventually they are overtaken at or near earth as heavenly fire annihilates their remaining "star destroyers" along with all their terrestrial collaborators. Of course, the preceding paragraph is reading more between and around available traditions then would ever be persuasive

 

[Erik Nelson]

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

In the NT, the names of everyone foreordained to kingdom of Christ, the Lamb slain, were written in the Book of Life, from the foundation of the world... and some things were kept secret from the foundation of the world also...

Yet, in the OT, all of the angels sung for joy at the foundation of this world (Job 38)...

by which time Christ the Lamb slain to redeem mankind from the curse of the fall in Eden was already foreknown... if possibly kept secret...

All of the above would be reconcilable if God had foreordained Christ as the prophesied sovereign of earth back in Genesis 1:1 = foundation of this world before the 1st Divine Day...

Yet did not reveal to the angels that they would have to bow to earthlings until after the 7th Divine Day... keeping that fact secret as indeed only the Father knows some things (Matt 24:36)

When God finally revealed (more of) his plans to the angels, Satan (predictably) rebelled, setting in motion all of the events God had foreknown the entire time

 

[FreeinChrist]

ADVISOR HAT

This thread is closed. This is not the forum for theological discussions.​