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when did God say...

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archaeologist

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to believe secular science over Him or His word?

i would like those who do take secular science over God's word to show in the Bible where God says to do that.

there is nothing wrong with doing science but when you accept the conclusions, theories and hypothesis of the unchurched world which is against what God has directed His followers to do then there is a problem.

here is what God says about whom to believe:

Numbers 14:11
[ Moses Intercedes for the People ] Then the LORD said to Moses: “How long will these people reject Me? And how long will they not believe Me, with all the signs which I have performed among them?

2 Chronicles 20:20
So they rose early in the morning and went out into the Wilderness of Tekoa; and as they went out, Jehoshaphat stood and said, “Hear me, O Judah and you inhabitants of Jerusalem: Believe in the LORD your God, and you shall be established; believe His prophets, and you shall prosper.”

Isaiah 43:10
“ You are My witnesses,” says the LORD, “ And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me

John 5:46
For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me

John 8:46
Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me?

John 12:46
I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness

i have not found one scripture that says to do otherwise, God is simply saying 'believe me' and yet many would rather believe secular science.
 

gluadys

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to believe secular science over Him or His word?

How can a scientific description of creation go against the Word of God when God created what is being described by His Word. Science is repeating God's word and revealing it to us, not going against it.

i would like those who do take secular science over God's word to show in the Bible where God says to do that.

Why the bible in particular? Do you think any of God's truth in the bible contradicts any of God's truth in creation? If we find biblical truth and created truth are different, how would we choose whether to believe the bible or creation? Might we not need an independent guide, such as the Holy Spirit, to sort it out?

there is nothing wrong with doing science but when you accept the conclusions, theories and hypothesis of the unchurched world which is against what God has directed His followers to do then there is a problem.

Since I don't know of anything in science that fits that description, I have no problem with it.
 
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archaeologist

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How can a scientific description of creation go against the Word of God when God created what is being described by His Word

in looking at this question, it says you believe science to be 100% accurate and immune from the evil in the world. how can you take such a naive position? science eliminates God and His power as a factor and looks for other reasons to explain origins.

Do you think any of God's truth in the bible contradicts any of God's truth in creation

there is only 1 truth not many.

we find biblical truth and created truth are different, how would we choose whether to believe the bible or creation

what is created truth? do you mean evolution? evolution is not true andit would be the interpretatin of the evidence which leads it away from the truth.

Might we not need an independent guide, such as the Holy Spirit, to sort it out?

the Holy Spirit is part of the Trinity, It is on God's side.

Since I don't know of anything in science that fits that description, I have no problem with it.

so you believe that science is 100 % of God, immune to the results of the fall of man, incorruptible, infallible? if so then you are saying it is God. that is dangerous ground to be on.
 
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gluadys

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in looking at this question, it says you believe science to be 100% accurate and immune from the evil in the world.

Why would I believe such a ridiculous proposal? Scientists don't claim science is 100% accurate or free from human foibles.

science eliminates God and His power as a factor and looks for other reasons to explain origins.

So you claim, but I see no evidence that your assessment is correct.



there is only 1 truth not many.

Good. I am glad you recognize that.

what is created truth?

What I mean is that nature is God's creation and God's Word is the active agent by which it was created and by which it is sustained. Any true description of nature, therefore, is as true as the Word of God since it is describing what the Word created. When scientists discover a truth about nature, they are discovering a truth made by the Word of God.

do you mean evolution? evolution is not true andit would be the interpretatin of the evidence which leads it away from the truth.

I don't know on what basis you would say evolution is not true.
 
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archaeologist

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Why would I believe such a ridiculous proposal? Scientists don't claim science is 100% accurate or free from human foibles

it is exactly what you said when you said:

How can a scientific description of creation go against the Word of God when God created what is being described by His Word. Science is repeating God's word and revealing it to us, not going against it

there are two forces at work here and the one hates God and those who believe in Him, what better way to lead people away from God than by using a field most people blindly accept as an authority?

not all of scientific descriptions describe creation accurately, evolution does not.

So you claim, but I see no evidence that your assessment is correct.

i have posted quotes in other threads, read Dr. Ratzsch's book, the Battle of Beginnings' it will provide you with all the evidence you will need.

God's Word

are you saying spoken command or the Bible?

When scientists discover a truth about nature, they are discovering a truth made by the Word of God.

depends on your definition of truth i guess. evolution is described as a truth of science yet it is not true nor does it exist.

I don't know on what basis you would say evolution is not true.

you obviously have not beenreading other threads.
1. the Bible
2. evolution is a product of man's imagination
3. it has no divine roots
4. it has no divine origin
5. it has no divine support anywhere in scripture.
5. it omits God
6. it is designed to lead people from the truth.
 
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juvenissun

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i have not found one scripture that says to do otherwise, God is simply saying 'believe me' and yet many would rather believe secular science.

I think they do not know that secular science changes FAST. What they believe today would be wrong tomorrow (said by secular scientists).
 
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Nachtjager

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:scratch: Hey, here's a wild thought... how's about the seemingly obvious? The world and everything else was created by God, then it evolved. How come very few Christians can take this train of thought? I'm not talking man evolving from cavemen and such, but perhaps co-existing with them at some point and the cave guys finally went extinct. Seems to me given their much heavier bone structure, that's why their skeletal remains still exist, while ancient "normal" man's would have long since turned to dust.

I certainly believe God created everything around us, but I believe it is extremely naive to ignore what our eyes, ears, and common sense tell us about history. Augustine said that all knowledge is of God, and I think he knew what he was talking about. Not that long ago if you'd dare suggested the Earth wasn't flat or that we revolved around the sun, you would've risked being burned as a Biblical heretic. I think Christian faith should be mixed with scientific knowledge, because God empowers us to think and explore.

Only when junk science directly contradicts the existence of God is there a problem. And having said that, if you take Genesis as a literal text of history, you're always going to have problems with science.

Take care and God bless! :wave:
 
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Assyrian

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always going to the extreme and ignoring the simple
You make theological claims about one science that look absurd when applied to any other science.

The problem is not comparing your claim about evolution to other sciences, but that your claims did not make sense to start with.
 
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gluadys

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not all of scientific descriptions describe creation accurately,

That's true. But when they do, they are describing the work of the Word of God, so how can it be contradictory to God's Word?

evolution does not.

And that's debatable. Actually, in science it's not. There is no controversy about evolution in science. So the real debate is theological.

i have posted quotes in other threads, read Dr. Ratzsch's book, the Battle of Beginnings' it will provide you with all the evidence you will need.

Your quotes only restate your assessment of science. I do not find the assessment convincing just because it is repeated many times.

Science is not an anti-God project. It does not look for "other" reasons to explain origins. It looks for whatever natural reasons may be pertinent to the explanation of origins. I hope you are not an atheist who thinks that natural means without God. How can God who created nature be opposed by nature?

are you saying spoken command or the Bible?

Spoken command, of course. The Bible did not create the world. God did, via the Word who later became flesh in Jesus of Nazareth.

depends on your definition of truth i guess. evolution is described as a truth of science yet it is not true nor does it exist.

Your assessment that evolution is not true is what I question.

you obviously have not beenreading other threads.
1. the Bible
2. evolution is a product of man's imagination
3. it has no divine roots
4. it has no divine origin
5. it has no divine support anywhere in scripture.
5. it omits God
6. it is designed to lead people from the truth.

1. I find nothing in the Bible about evolution. That includes any statement to the effect that evolution is not true. The Bible nowhere says that evolution is not true.

2. So? Most advances in science started out because somebody had enough imagination to see things differently.

3. It has divine roots in the Word which created nature.

4. All nature is of divine origin. Therefore, evolution, which is part of nature is also of divine origin.

5. For once you are right. The Bible is silent on the subject of evolution as it is on many subjects. Silence is not evidence one way or another. There are many things we know to be true (such as Archimedes' principle, the Pythagorean theorem, the principle of steam power, and many more) which have no reference in the bible.

Tell me, does your church have an organ? Do you accompany your hymns with organ music? The bible mentions many musical instruments, but not organs. Some Christian sects have taken that to be a condemnation of organ music. Would you agree that the silence of scripture is equivalent to condemnation?

6. Not at all. That is equivalent to saying that nature omits its Creator. A ridiculous proposition.

7. Another personal and unsupported assessment dependent on the 5 falsehoods above.
 
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archaeologist

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I think they do not know that secular science changes FAST. What they believe today would be wrong tomorrow (said by secular scientists).

then it is not true and needs to be rejected.

nachtjagar:

The world and everything else was created by God, then it evolved.

contradicts God and His word.

I certainly believe God created everything around us, but I believe it is extremely naive to ignore what our eyes, ears, and common sense tell us about history

that says you believe their interpretation adn their interpretation isusually not correct especially if it contradicts God and His word.

And having said that, if you take Genesis as a literal text of history, you're always going to have problems with science

the Bible is God's word it trumps science. science is not immune from the results of the fall, it is not infallible, incorruptible, and so on. there is no contest, science loses.

too many people have given science a position and an authority it was not meant to have that is where they err. it is not judge and jury of what God has done nor does it have the ability or the power to declare whatis right or wrong, even with God's word.

assyrian:

You make theological claims about one science that look absurd when applied to any other science.

not at all. God trumps all sciences and His word is to be followed in all areas. pleas ep[rove your declaration instead of just making an uncredible statement.

The problem is not comparing your claim about evolution to other sciences, but that your claims did not make sense to start with

prove it with credible sources, links, and references. your wordis not good enough.

glaudys:

But when they do

that is a redundent statement and means nothing as i have addressed this already. it doesn't address the fact that science is not following God, nor looking to God for the answers they seek. they omit Him to find alternatives to God's word.

And that's debatable. Actually, in science it's not. There is no controversy about evolution in science. So the real debate is theological.

in one sense you are right--most secular scientists acept evolution BUT that doesn'tmean it exists or it is responsible for what we see in the world.

the other sense you are wrong. if one is a believer they cannot follow that which is not of God no matter the field they are in. if they do then they are hypocirtes and sin. evolution does not exist, it does not exist no matter how loudly the secular world cries and whines.

Science is not an anti-God project. It does not look for "other" reasons to explain origins. It looks for whatever natural reasons may be pertinent to the explanation of origins

read the book. sorry you are wrong on that. the book shows you why.

The Bible did not create the world. God did, via the Word who later became flesh in Jesus of Nazareth.

did i say it did? no it is God revelation to man as to what He did in the past and who we are to follow, believe, listen to and it is God's revelation about who He is and what is going to happen in the future. and so on

AT NO TIME DOES HE SAY TO FOLLOW SCIENCE, THE SECULAR WORLD OR THEIR THINKING.please show me a scripture where he says to follow evolutionary thinking and not Him.

Your assessment that evolution is not true is what I question

then you question God and the Bible for nowhere do either state evolution exists,or was used by God in lieu of His own power and creating by His spoken word.

1. I find nothing in the Bible about evolution. That includes any statement to the effect that evolution is not true. The Bible nowhere says that evolution is not true.

all the creation scriptures deny evolution.

2. So? Most advances in science started out because somebody had enough imagination to see things differently.

so?? that proves that evolution does not exist and shows it has no divine origins. science has no authority to change that. we are not to see things differently than what God has said. we are to believe God.

3. It has divine roots in the Word which created nature.

where? prove it. using contextual scriptures and other credible sources, references and links.

4. All nature is of divine origin. Therefore, evolution, which is part of nature is also of divine origin.

again prove that evolution is a creation of God. i just showed that it has no divine origin but a product of man's imagination. there is no scripture that links evolution to existence or to being responsible for what God did.

Tell me, does your church have an organ? Do you accompany your hymns with organ music? The bible mentions many musical instruments, but not organs. Some Christian sects have taken that to be a condemnation of organ music. Would you agree that the silence of scripture is equivalent to condemnation

again you go tothe extreme and the absurd to try and find an excuse to justify believing in evolution and not God.

6. Not at all. That is equivalent to saying that nature omits its Creator. A ridiculous proposition.

evolution omits God, the above says you do not understand the very theory you believe in. read it again with out the theistic evolutionist's 'christianizing'. God is not a part of the equation.



7. Another personal and unsupported assessment dependent on the 5 falsehoods above

not at all. it is substantiated by the Bible, Jesus and the Holy Spirit along with the apostles. that which is not of God is of the devil and secular science, evolution are not of God.
 
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gluadys

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that is a redundent statement and means nothing as i have addressed this already.

It is important to remember that God created a real world and that it is also his revelation. It happens that this is the revelation science chooses to study.

it doesn't address the fact that science is not following God, nor looking to God for the answers they seek. they omit Him to find alternatives to God's word.

But these are not facts. They are just your prejudices.

Scientists are looking at what God created. Does what God created stand in contradiction to the the very Word by which it was created? That is hardly a tenable position.

in one sense you are right--most secular scientists acept evolution BUT that doesn'tmean it exists or it is responsible for what we see in the world.

Whether evolution exists is not a matter of any authoritative pronouncement, but of how God created the world. Since God created life that evolves, then it is no surprise if scientists find that life evolves. Evolution is concluded from the evidence provided in God's creation.

the other sense you are wrong. if one is a believer they cannot follow that which is not of God no matter the field they are in. if they do then they are hypocirtes and sin.

Agreed. A believer does not follow that which is not of God.

evolution does not exist, it does not exist no matter how loudly the secular world cries and whines.

The same can be said in reverse. No matter how much you cry and whine, evolution does exist. Playing a "Yes it does, no it doesn't" game is for children.

read the book. sorry you are wrong on that. the book shows you why.

I may read the book one day, but I have at least two years worth of reading on my list now without adding more.

AT NO TIME DOES HE SAY TO FOLLOW SCIENCE, THE SECULAR WORLD OR THEIR THINKING.please show me a scripture where he says to follow evolutionary thinking and not Him.

And at no time does scripture say it is wrong to study creation scientifically. Scripture says nothing about evolution. It does not say evolution is contrary to God's Word. Since evolution is part of creation, it is hard to say how it could be contrary to God's Word. After all it was created by God's Word.


gluadys said:
Your assessment that evolution is not true is what I question
then you question God and the Bible for nowhere do either state evolution exists,or was used by God in lieu of His own power and creating by His spoken word.

Excuse me. I didn't know that you claimed to be God.

all the creation scriptures deny evolution.

Creation does not deny evolution as any study of creation shows. Are you claiming that creation contradicts scripture?

so?? that proves that evolution does not exist and shows it has no divine origins.

Newton's imagination was stimulated by a falling apple (so the legend goes) and the result was his formulation of the law of gravity. So the origin of the law of gravity in human imagination proves that gravity does not exist, eh?

Or how about the imagination that led Watt to devise a steam engine. I suppose that means steam engines don't exist either.

Not too long ago a foolish woman imagined a great absurdity: that women could study medicine and become doctors. I guess women doctors don't exist.

science has no authority to change that. we are not to see things differently than what God has said. we are to believe God.

Agreed. But remember what God has said in creation as well as what God has conveyed in scripture. Science listens very attentively to the voice of creation. And it believes the evidence provided in creation.

Do you believe that creation contradicts scripture?


where? prove it. using contextual scriptures and other credible sources, references and links.

The key text of course is John 1:1-3 where the Word is identified as Creator.

"All things came into being through him and without him not one thing came into being."

All of nature has its roots in the divine Word which made it. That, of course, includes evolution.

Other supportive scriptures: Colossians 1:16 reaffirms Christ (the Word) as the creator of all things and the agent in whom, through whom and for whom all things were created.

All texts in Genesis 1 which show creation as a consequence of God speaking also root nature in the Word of God.

Paul in his letter to the Romans points to created nature as a witness to God, as we would expect since it comes from God. (Romans 3:20).

Proverbs 3:19-20 and 8:22-30 are also pertinent, for the Greek term Logos, usually translated Word, includes the concept of the wisdom, study and reason expressed in the Word and not just the mere speaking of the Word. (That is why so many fields of study end in the suffix "-ology" from "logos"=study)

The Logos is the expression of the mind of God, or, as the writer to the Hebrews puts it "the express image of his person, upholding all things by the word of his power".

I think there is little doubt that the created world in all its aspects, including evolution, is rooted in the divine Word of God.

again prove that evolution is a creation of God.

Everything in nature is a creation of God. As the scriptures just cited remind us, he is the Creator of "all things" and upholds "all things" by the word of his power.

So, as part of nature, evolution is a creation of God, just like electricity, photosynthesis and every other natural process.

there is no scripture that links evolution to existence or to being responsible for what God did.

Of course, evolution is not responsible for what God did, any more than magnetism or tidal forces. It is God who is responsible for the existence of natural forces and processes, not the other way around. God brought evolution into being when he brought life into being. God made living things to evolve and they do.


again you go tothe extreme and the absurd to try and find an excuse to justify believing in evolution and not God.

Well, I am glad you also think it absurd to avoid the use of organs in church just because they are not mentioned in scripture. But the whole of your argument against evolution is based on the same silence.

If it is ridiculous (and I agree it is) to ban organs because of scriptural silence, it is just as ridiculous to oppose evolution because of scriptural silence.

Silence does not imply condemnation.

evolution omits God,

Is this your opinion, archeologist, or are you claiming to be God again?

the above says you do not understand the very theory you believe in.

It never occurs to you that it may be you who does not understand it?

it is substantiated by the Bible, Jesus and the Holy Spirit along with the apostles.

So you claim. I find no substantiation of your claim.

that which is not of God is of the devil and secular science, evolution are not of God.

Repeating your mantra does not make it any truer than when you first said it.
 
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archaeologist

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It happens that this is the revelation science chooses to study

it is not studying God's revelation but looking for natural explanations which eliminate God altogether.

But these are not facts. They are just your prejudices.

no, they are the facts. just ask stephen hawkins and see how close to God he comes.

Scientists are looking at what God created

your lack of discernment and understanding is obvious. since you ignore the warnings of the Bible concerning the evil one you shall be deceived as well.

Whether evolution exists is not a matter of any authoritative pronouncement, but of how God created the world. Since God created life that evolves, then it is no surprise if scientists find that life evolves. Evolution is concluded from the evidence provided in God's creation.

God did not use evolution and there is not one verse that supports this contention.

The same can be said in reverse.

no it can't as i have all the scriptures in the Bible supporting my position, you have none. there is no evolution.

And at no time does scripture say it is wrong to study creation scientifically

yes it does---if you do it the world's way then it speaks against it. read 1 john.

Since evolution is part of creation

there is no verse that says, refers to, alludes to, ifers, this. please provide some.

Creation does not deny evolution as any study of creation shows. Are you claiming that creation contradicts scripture?

yes it does as evolution is not of God and never was a part of scripture.

Not too long ago a foolish woman imagined a great absurdity: that women could study medicine and become doctors. I guess women doctors don't exist

again going to the absurd and not the factual.

The key text of course is John 1:1-3 where the Word is identified as Creator.

i didn't address.

I think there is little doubt that the created world in all its aspects, including evolution, is rooted in the divine Word of God.

why you insert evolution when none of those verses are including it is beyond me. your addinginto scripture is quite obvious and you are looking for justification to believe something that is not scriptural or of God.

God brought evolution into being when he brought life into being

evolution was not brought in by God, it doesn't exist. please provide scripture that says God instituted the process of evolution. God did not create evolution. that is adding to and reading into scripture

But the whole of your argument against evolution is based on the same silence
actually it isn't. i have appealed to all the creation scriptures which explicitly denies any evolutionary process and solely describe God as maker, creater , and so on. i have also shown throughout God's act how he feels about sharing the credit, How He does things so no one will be able to doubt that he did it. and so on.

Is this your opinion, archeologist, or are you claiming to be God again?

personal insults will be ignored. study the science you defend so vigoriously and you will see it if you ask God to unblind your eyes.

Silence does not imply condemnation.

it isn't just silence but the words of God also which condemm evolution.

It never occurs to you that it may be you who does not understand it?

accusations will be ignored as well.

I find no substantiation of your claim

so you are saying that Jesus, The Holy Spirit and the apostles are lying??

Repeating your mantra does not make it any truer than when you first said it

you need to hear it--read Colossians 2:8, 2 Thess. 2:11
 
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gluadys

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it is not studying God's revelation but looking for natural explanations which eliminate God altogether.

Please elucidate how natural explanations are capable of eliminating the God who created nature.

I know it is a common atheist assumption that nature excludes God, but then atheists think everything excludes God. I didn't think I was conversing with an atheist.


no, they are the facts. just ask stephen hawkins and see how close to God he comes.

Oh, so you are borrowing your prejudices from stephen hawkins' prejudices. Again, I did not think I was conversing with an atheist.

Why would a Christian adopt the prejudices of an atheist?

your lack of discernment and understanding is obvious. since you ignore the warnings of the Bible concerning the evil one you shall be deceived as well.

Evading the point. Scientists study nature. Nature was created by God. So scientists are looking at what God created. Whether they know that or not, whether they believe that or not, is irrelevant. We know it is God's creation they are studying, even if they don't.

God did not use evolution and there is not one verse that supports this contention.

And there is not one verse that denies it either. Scripture does not speak of evolution at all. But creation does.

Does God's creation contradict the inspired scriptures?

no it can't as i have all the scriptures in the Bible supporting my position, you have none. there is no evolution.

You have no scriptures supporting your position as no scriptures condemn evolution.

yes it does---if you do it the world's way then it speaks against it. read 1 john.

All of it? Or would you recommend a particular chapter and verse?

there is no verse that says, refers to, alludes to, ifers, this. please provide some.

That is true. There is no such verse. Scripture is silent on evolution. Creation, however, is not.

Does God's creation present information that contradicts inspired scripture?

yes it does as evolution is not of God and never was a part of scripture.

Interesting proposition. Creation comes from God and scripture comes from God. Yet creation contradicts scripture.

You propose that I should not believe God's creation. If I should not believe God's creation, why should I believe scripture? If God's Word cannot be trusted in creation, why would I trust it in scripture? Why would I trust anything God says if I find one of his revelations untrustworthy?

again going to the absurd and not the factual.

Evading the point with a meaningless comment.


evolution was not brought in by God, it doesn't exist. please provide scripture that says God instituted the process of evolution.

I already did. See my previous post. Note especially those that say God created "all things". Closing your eyes and chanting "evolution does not exist" will not make it go away. You do not have the power to destroy what God has made.

actually it isn't. i have appealed to all the creation scriptures which explicitly denies any evolutionary process and solely describe God as maker, creater , and so on.

Now who is reading things into scripture. No verse in the bible explicitly denies evolutionary process or any natural process.

The verses you mention do indeed ascribe creation solely to God, but that is not a proposition put in question by evolution.

i have also shown throughout God's act how he feels about sharing the credit, How He does things so no one will be able to doubt that he did it. and so on.

And I do give credit to God for creating life that evolves. Evolution is one of the aspects of creation that witness to the wisdom of the Creator.

study the science you defend so vigoriously and you will see it if you ask God to unblind your eyes.

I daresay I have studied it more than you have. You seem to think you can turn your back on God's creation and understand it without studying it.

it isn't just silence but the words of God also which condemm evolution.

Well, you haven't come up with any of those words yet.

so you are saying that Jesus, The Holy Spirit and the apostles are lying??

it is substantiated by the Bible, Jesus and the Holy Spirit along with the apostles.
gluadys said:
I find no substantiation of your claim

so you are saying that you are Jesus, The Holy Spirit and the apostles??

This is the second time you have reacted to my doubts of your claims and assertions as if I were doubting God instead of you.

Shall I worship you or conclude that you have delusions of grandeur?

you need to hear it--read Colossians 2:8, 2 Thess. 2:11

You might try to find something more relevant to the conversation.
 
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archaeologist

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I didn't think I was conversing with an atheist.

I did not think I was conversing with an atheist.

two personal attacks in a row, i thought this was a chriostianweb site who believed in treating others as they themselves want to be treated? obviously i was wrong.

i know TE's only follow the scripture they want or can manipulate but it doesn't change the reality of what God said.

Whether they know that or not, whether they believe that or not, is irrelevant

it is not irrelevant especially when 'christians' blindly accept what secular scientists and science has to say with out any spiritual discernment.

you do not know what dangerous ground you are on as you look to the unbelievers for your information.

And there is not one verse that denies it either. Scripture does not speak of evolution at all. But creation does.

every verse denies it, you are just too afraid to look at them honestly.

Does God's creation contradict the inspired scriptures

depends on who is doing the interpretating, those of us who believe God created it without evolution then no, creation doesn't disagree with scripture; if you add in evolution then yes, creation then disagrees with scriptures, for it is not creation speaking but unbelievers who cannot accept what God said He did.

You have no scriptures supporting your position as no scriptures condemn evolution

i have all the scriptures supporting my view, along with thehistorical record, the ancient records, archaeology and so on.

All of it? Or would you recommend a particular chapter and verse?

all of it, with an open mind.

Interesting proposition. Creation comes from God and scripture comes from God. Yet creation contradicts scripture

redundent and you are not listening to creation, you are listening to secular scientists who have omited, eliminated, ignored God. which for the believer, God said not to do.

you can't escape it,once you added in evolution and secular thinking, conclusions and so on, you stopped listening to God.

Evading the point with a meaningless comment.

no, just observing how far out you will go to hold onto what you want to believe even though it is not of God.

I already did. See my previous post

not one of those verses support the creation of evolution. you are reading into and adding to the scripture. you are desparate to hang onto evolutionary beliefs despite the fact they deny God.

You do not have the power to destroy what God has made.

No but he did not create evolution, check its source. you have not quoted darwin or any other original evolutionary thinker who states theygot the theory from God or where it is grounded in scripture.

saying God created all things then adding in an imaginary theory does not make evolution a creation of God. it makes one desparate to find any justification or excuse to ignore what God has said and to hang onto what little credibility or respect one gets from the world.

And I do give credit to God for creating life that evolves. Evolution is one of the aspects of creation that witness to the wisdom of the Creator.

you still haven't proved that evolution exists or that God created it. life doesn't evolve. take a close lookat what yu are proclaiming, there is not one instance where evolution can be verified. it can be credited but that doesn't make evolution responsible or valid, it just means that people are desparate for an alternative tothe biblical account.

No verse in the bible explicitly denies evolutionary process or any natural process.

all of them do or God and His word would be lying.

I daresay I have studied it more than you have. You seem to think you can turn your back on God's creation and understand it without studying it.

i doubt that but since you are following a secular conclusion i know you are way off track by now.

Shall I worship you or conclude that you have delusions of grandeur?

personal attack #3, you have no more credibility with me. i go with God's word, i believe God's word, you are calling God, the Trinity, and the rest liars.

You might try to find something more relevant to the conversation.

they are relevant, you just don't realize it.
 
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OnceUponAChristian

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two personal attacks in a row, i thought this was a chriostianweb site who believed in treating others as they themselves want to be treated? obviously i was wrong.

i know TE's only follow the scripture they want or can manipulate but it doesn't change the reality of what God said.



it is not irrelevant especially when 'christians' blindly accept what secular scientists and science has to say with out any spiritual discernment.

you do not know what dangerous ground you are on as you look to the unbelievers for your information.



every verse denies it, you are just too afraid to look at them honestly.



depends on who is doing the interpretating, those of us who believe God created it without evolution then no, creation doesn't disagree with scripture; if you add in evolution then yes, creation then disagrees with scriptures, for it is not creation speaking but unbelievers who cannot accept what God said He did.



i have all the scriptures supporting my view, along with thehistorical record, the ancient records, archaeology and so on.



all of it, with an open mind.



redundent and you are not listening to creation, you are listening to secular scientists who have omited, eliminated, ignored God. which for the believer, God said not to do.

you can't escape it,once you added in evolution and secular thinking, conclusions and so on, you stopped listening to God.



no, just observing how far out you will go to hold onto what you want to believe even though it is not of God.



not one of those verses support the creation of evolution. you are reading into and adding to the scripture. you are desparate to hang onto evolutionary beliefs despite the fact they deny God.



No but he did not create evolution, check its source. you have not quoted darwin or any other original evolutionary thinker who states theygot the theory from God or where it is grounded in scripture.

saying God created all things then adding in an imaginary theory does not make evolution a creation of God. it makes one desparate to find any justification or excuse to ignore what God has said and to hang onto what little credibility or respect one gets from the world.



you still haven't proved that evolution exists or that God created it. life doesn't evolve. take a close lookat what yu are proclaiming, there is not one instance where evolution can be verified. it can be credited but that doesn't make evolution responsible or valid, it just means that people are desparate for an alternative tothe biblical account.



all of them do or God and His word would be lying.



i doubt that but since you are following a secular conclusion i know you are way off track by now.



personal attack #3, you have no more credibility with me. i go with God's word, i believe God's word, you are calling God, the Trinity, and the rest liars.



they are relevant, you just don't realize it.
Arch, how about you prove that your god exists? Haven't done that either...eh?
 
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Assyrian

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assyrian:

You make theological claims about one science that look absurd when applied to any other science.

not at all. God trumps all sciences and His word is to be followed in all areas. pleas ep[rove your declaration instead of just making an uncredible statement.
The problem is not comparing your claim about evolution to other sciences, but that your claims did not make sense to start with
prove it with credible sources, links, and references. your wordis not good enough.
You made the claim about evolution, when your claim was applied to other sciences you are the one who described it as 'absurd' or 'going to the extreme'. It is up to you to show why your claims are sensible when applied to one science, but they are absurd when applied to other sciences.
 
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