When did dinosaurs turn into birds?

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Am I keeping them [sic] from answering?

I did not say that you were.

 

[46AND2]

1 Timothy 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

Notice here, where Paul calls evolution "endless genealogies" and says all it does is "minister questions"?

Paul did not write 1 Timothy, btw.

 

[Robert Palase]

We have a soul and a spirit.

Please change the 'We' to an 'I' because I don't have either of them.

 

[Loudmouth]

Yep you're right. But that doesn't make us apes.

Why not?

I say humans have always been humans and always will be. Apes have always been apes and always will be. Prove it's not so.

I already did. The ERV evidence demonstrates that modern apes and modern humans share a common ancestor.

"Given the size of vertebrate genomes (>1 × 10^9 bp) and the random nature of retroviral integration (22, 23), multiple integrations (and subsequent fixation) of ERV loci at precisely the same location are highly unlikely (24). Therefore, an ERV locus shared by two or more species is descended from a single integration event and is proof that the species share a common ancestor into whose germ line the original integration took place (14)."
http://www.pnas.org/content/96/18/10254.full

Humans and chimps share over 200,000 ERVs at the same location in each of their genomes. That is 200,000 pieces of proof (beyond any reasonable doubt).

I cover all of this evidence and the creationist arguments in this thread:

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/the-new-retrovirus-thread.7942101/

 

[Loudmouth]

Oh no I understood your post very well. Its just the same gobbeldy gook that evolutionists use to try and cloud the real problem with their hypothosis. The fact they can't prove it.

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Evolution is proven beyond any reasonable doubt in this thread (which you continue to avoid):

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/the-new-retrovirus-thread.7942101/

 

[AV1611VET]

Paul did not write 1 Timothy, btw.

Who did!?

1 Timothy 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;
1 Timothy 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[AV1611VET]

Please change the 'We' to an 'I' because I don't have either of them.

Let me guess.

You have an id, ego and superego ... right?

 

[46AND2]

Who did!?

1 Timothy 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;
1 Timothy 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Don't know. It's a pseudepigraphy.

 

[AV1611VET]

Don't know. It's a pseudepigraphy.

Funny.

It's not sold in the stores that way.

Perhaps Mr Valentine can tell us if he teaches that in his classes?

 

[46AND2]

Perhaps Mr Valentine can tell us if he teaches that in his classes?

Most Christian scholars do.

 

[AV1611VET]

Most Christian scholars do.

This is the first I've ever heard this.

Interesting.

 

[AV1611VET]

Most Christian scholars do.

I see why now.

According to the Rainbow Study Bible:

Content: This personal letter from Paul to his close ally Timothy serves several purposes. It offers hope and comfort to keep young Timothy on the right path and is a sign for the church that Timothy has the express backing and support of the Apostle Paul. Paul offers Timothy advice for his congregation on these concerns: proper worship; qualifications for the church officers; relationships with widows, elders and slaves; and the evil of loving money. Admonitions permeate the letter with counsel to help the Christians live godly lives in a healthy church committed to following good and fleeing evil.

Key Words: "Doctrine"; "Qualifications." Paul exhorts Timothy to remain true to God's way and to follow no other "doctrine." Specific examples of God's way include a list of the "qualifications" which the Lord has given for the church's leadership.

Themes: · There is only one true doctrine, and only committed Christians are capable of living within it. · What we really believe as doctrine will be exhibited by our attitudes and actions. · Age is no barrier to being used mightily by God. · True leadership is God-given, not man-made. · As an athlete must train, so a Christian must exercise and discipline his faith.

 

[rjs330]

How are humans not apes? Do you actually have an answer for this question that does not simply go along the lines of "We are separate kinds" or "because God made us different" or anything in between?

We are not apes because we have an eternal soul. We alone of all creatures have the capacity to serve God and of all the creatures in this planet received the law of God and have the ability to have the Holy Spirit live in us. Christ died for us not apes. We will all be judged for our lives not apes.

We walk upright. We build and create technologies, we explore and examine and wonder why. We do not have monkey feet. We have advanced language. We have the ability to create ships to fly to the moon. We have the ability to explore medical science and discover cures for disease. We build cities and farms. We build atomic bombs and aircraft carriers. We do not have the same DNA as apes. Jimminy Christmas do I really need to explain how we are not apes? I can't believe I actually have to explain this to you.

Categorizing man as an ape is a man created way to lump,is with similar creatures. Fine. Do that if you want. But it still doesn't actually make man an actual ape. And it doesn't make us have a common ancestor as an ape.

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[Loudmouth]

Categorizing man as an ape is a man created way to lump,is with similar creatures. Fine. Do that if you want. But it still doesn't actually make man an actual ape. And it doesn't make us have a common ancestor as an ape.

Defining man as being separate from all other species is not proof either. It is just an assertion.

 

[rjs330]

Evolution is proven beyond any reasonable doubt in this thread (which you continue to avoid):

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/the-new-retrovirus-thread.7942101/

I haven't avoided it all. I've given my reasons why it doesn't prove evolution and provided links. I don't feel the need to keep,going over it. Yeah I know you believe your links debunk my links. Well my links debunk yours. See how silly that is. Bottom line the retro virus thread is wishful thinking and proves nothing.

This is the first I've ever heard this.

Interesting.

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[Loudmouth]

I haven't avoided it all.

Then why did you reference a video with arguments I had already refuted in that thread?

I've given my reasons why it doesn't prove evolution and provided links.

I already refuted all of those arguments in this thread:

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/the-new-retrovirus-thread.7942101/

You would know that if you weren't avoiding it.

I don't feel the need to keep,going over it.

You haven't even gone over the material once, as shown by your ignorance of the arguments I have made.

Yeah I know you believe your links debunk my links. Well my links debunk yours. See how silly that is.

The difference being that I actually present an argument.

Bottom line the retro virus thread is wishful thinking and proves nothing.

You haven't shown how anything I have presented is wishful thinking. You are making stuff up. You are being very, very dishonest.

 

[rjs330]

Defining man as being separate from all other species is not proof either. It is just an assertion.

I not defining anything. I have provided proof. Next time you find a creature who has done what man has done and walks and talks and builds and does math formulas and can go to the moon then you can tell,me how we are the same. When monkeys can invent a cure for a disease then you might have a case. But until then I'm afraid you are barking up the wrong side of the tree.

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[Warden_of_the_Storm]

We are not apes because we have an eternal soul. We alone of all creatures have the capacity to serve God and of all the creatures in this planet received the law of God and have the ability to have the Holy Spirit live in us. Christ died for us not apes. We will all be judged for our lives not apes.

We walk upright. We build and create technologies, we explore and examine and wonder why. We do not have monkey feet. We have advanced language. We have the ability to create ships to fly to the moon. We have the ability to explore medical science and discover cures for disease. We build cities and farms. We build atomic bombs and aircraft carriers. We do not have the same DNA as apes. Jimminy Christmas do I really need to explain how we are not apes? I can't believe I actually have to explain this to you.

Categorizing man as an ape is a man created way to lump,is with similar creatures. Fine. Do that if you want. But it still doesn't actually make man an actual ape. And it doesn't make us have a common ancestor as an ape.

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Okay, the thing on the soul is unscientific straight away since it cannot be tested by science so we can discount that right away.
And honestly, all of the rest sounds like the standard "Waagh! I aint no stinking ape!", also completely ignoring the fact that we share 98% of our DNA with Chimpanzees and other great apes.

Honestly, this is just outright denial on your part.

 

[Loudmouth]

I not defining anything.

You defined humans as being different than apes. You just asserted that they are different.

Chimps are different from gorillas, are they not? Are they both still apes?

Chihuahuas are different from wolves, are they not? Are they both still canines even though they are different from one another?

Next time you find a creature who has done what man has done and walks and talks and builds and does math formulas and can go to the moon then you can tell,me how we are the same. When monkeys can invent a cure for a disease then you might have a case.

There is a species of monkey that did cure disease. That species is Homo sapiens.

 

[Subduction Zone]

We are not apes because we have an eternal soul. We alone of all creatures have the capacity to serve God and of all the creatures in this planet received the law of God and have the ability to have the Holy Spirit live in us. Christ died for us not apes. We will all be judged for our lives not apes.

Whether we are apes or not has nothing to do with whether we have a soul or not. This is not a valid objection.

We walk upright. We build and create technologies, we explore and examine and wonder why. We do not have monkey feet. We have advanced language. We have the ability to create ships to fly to the moon. We have the ability to explore medical science and discover cures for disease. We build cities and farms. We build atomic bombs and aircraft carriers. We do not have the same DNA as apes. Jimminy Christmas do I really need to explain how we are not apes? I can't believe I actually have to explain this to you.

We have very similar feet to the other great apes. Again, these are not valid reasons to claim that we are not apes.

Categorizing man as an ape is a man created way to lump,is with similar creatures. Fine. Do that if you want. But it still doesn't actually make man an actual ape. And it doesn't make us have a common ancestor as an ape.

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All of the evidence out there supports that we have a common ancestor with other apes. Weak objections are not valid evidence.