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You didn't get it, and it isn't funny if I have to explain it.
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You didn't get it, and it isn't funny if I have to explain it.Right. But I'm ONLY honing in on the FACT that there is [or I think should be deemed to be] an intuited bare minimum that should be recognized and shared among all people everywhere; and if it's not shared, then it may be that some nation or culture that doesn't harbor some minimum objective moral value X is, itself, to some degree, a cultural facilitator of sociopathy among its own people. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying that some Full Set of Morals or Ethical System X should be expected, all in all, to be intuited ...
Is this more clear as to what I'm honing in on?
I'm glad you asked. As IF you needed to, right?
Because, psychologists and psychiatrists, like folks in, say, the field of law enforcement, probably have a professional code of ethics that they are expected to abide by and to which a sociopath/psychopath won't 'really' care about.
The picture of a dude eating a banana and the logo of Reddit really made me laugh out loud.
Thanks for that, I needed a good chuckle.
You didn't get it, and it isn't funny if I have to explain it.
... I think I already indicated earlier that it has, a little. So, don't make me out like I'm 'behind the times.'The 10 professions with the most psychopaths
I get that you read one book on the subject, but that hardly makes you an expert. As you can see, understanding of the subject has gone a long ways in the past 15 years.
...yeah, that's always good to know, especially the next time "they" want to do brain surgery on me, ay?It should be needless to say, but psychopaths are in all sorts different professions. Some of these are even beneficial where quick decisions and lack of empathy are a benefit.
In short...you're wrong. There's a high prevalence of them amongst surgeons. There's no reason to believe they cannot follow an ethical code.
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... and so on, and so on, and so on, and so forth!
When one atheist disagrees with another about morality...
Well, the question was "Is Alex right in saying that Sam is wrong about the nature of human morality?"
Sam is indeed mistaken, so Alex is correct in saying so. (His reasoning may or may not be faulty. I wouldn't know. I didn't watch the video.)
Does he? [I have not watched the video, but my impression of Harris is that he does not acknowledge this.]
If so, does that mean that there is no conflict, since both people in the video agree than morality has no objective basis?
Obeying someone merely because they give you a command or a directive isn't moral at all. After all, that was the excuse used by substantial numbers of defendants at Nurenberg. So I very much disagree with the notion that Christian morality as you articulate it is superior.
Have you ever heard the term, "Gish Gallup" there, Philo?
For the record, Sam Harris is a dumbdumb doodyhead.
... I think I already indicated earlier that it has, a little. So, don't make me out like I'm 'behind the times.'
...yeah, that's always good to know, especially the next time "they" want to do brain surgery on me, ay?
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And now, back to our original programming ...
When are you going to figure out that this thread ISN'T about sociopaths. It's actually about the processes that go into our acts of differentiating moral potential and behavior from immoral potential and behavior, between differentiating between the extremes of utter moral relativism on one hand and sheer absolutism on the other hand, with a consideration to the varying understandings we have of Subjectivity and Objectivity as they play a role in our moral deliberations (whatever those are and would be within the realm of 'doing ethics' and being moral).
Does this make sense? (I think it does ... and it should to you, too!)
Have you ever heard the term, "Gish Gallup" there, Philo?
When I was a Christian, I believe morality came from God, that whatever he did or commanded was right. It is called Divine Command theory. That is how I was able to justify some of the horrible things in the Bible. Most modern Christians don't use Divine Command Theory now as it clearly contradicts modern cultural moral norms.I think Alex is right, and I think it's a little odd that Harris seems to be arguing (if I've understood him correctly) that any moral value can truly be objective. Sure, we can all agree on where to place action A or consequence B on a moral spectrum, but that of course doesn't make morality objective. I guess our sense of morality is the one sense that seems the most obvious and self-evident to us, but none of us can actually point out this supposed objectivity. I mean even the founding fathers had to phrase it something like "we hold these truths to be self-evident" - and we do, but neither an atheist nor a believer can demonstrate it to be anything like that. Even if moral values ultimately come from God, that only makes them God's subjective values, right? If they somehow exist apart from God's personal will, then God isn't God and there is something even he is subject to. So Christians may be right when they point out that atheist have no objective basis for morality, but neither do they. It invariably boils down to "it's wrong because... it just is."
I think they're both wrong because they're talking about this thing called "morality" in a modern American-era way. It's very business-like, as a means to an end (some end that not everyone can agree on any more than everyone can agree on best color).Is Alex right in saying that Sam is wrong about the nature of human morality?
I think they're both wrong because they're talking about this thing called "morality" in a modern American-era way. It's very business-like, as a means to an end (some end that not everyone can agree on any more than everyone can agree on best color).
Christians, and even ancient pagans, were concerned with what they called virtue, not morality. Virtue is its own reward.
Hey now....there's Gish Gallups....and then there's listing a bunch of book titles without any links to the actual information therein....and just pretending that they somehow validate a point.
On Alex's system, nothing can be demonstrated to be objectively true.
That is not accurate. Truth claims can very verified as true because of the law of non contradiction and the excluded middle.That's right. His argument against objective morality depends on the idea that moral statements, even if universally agreed upon, are simply a matter of intersubjective agreement. But any truth-claim, according to that way of arguing, is a matter of intersubjective agreement. Of course, maybe he has no intention of defending objectivity in any instance. If so, then he's a run-of-the-mill postmodern.
That is not accurate. Truth claims can very verified as true because of the law of non contradiction and the excluded middle.
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