When does predestination take place? At the start of a New Year I was thinking of all the babies that will be born around the world this year. Was their eternal fate destined before the beginning of the universe, or at the time of the Fall, or when?
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When Are We Predestined?
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It seems to me that the Word teaches that our predestination is our life in Christ, destined to rule with Christ before time began, while the miserable life we shed dressing in His life is what it is not about and never has been, it is the reason of God's wrath on us all.
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Jesus seemed to indicate that more people would be lost than saved, so whenever you make a baby, according to probability you're more likely creating a being destined for eternal torment. Why would you want to do that?
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Why would God want to do it? He said, "Be fruitful and multiply".
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Romans 9 has an answer, but it seems that few are willing to allow God to be . . . God
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I read it, but what's the answer?
I'm not sure that's a Calvinist answer, but maybe. I hope so.
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The Ordo Salutis
1. Election - God's choice of a people to be saved took place before the world was made. To the saints at Ephesus Paul wrote, 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world.
2. Predestination - Election is God's choice, and predestination is the pre assigned destination marked out for those He chose, that destination being salvation and full glorification in heaven.
3. Gospel Call (or the outward call of the gospel - outward in that it happens outside of us “ the preaching of the gospel, heard with the physical ear) Full Text
Reformation Theology: Ordo Salutis (The Order of Salvation)
1. Election - God's choice of a people to be saved took place before the world was made. To the saints at Ephesus Paul wrote, 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world.
2. Predestination - Election is God's choice, and predestination is the pre assigned destination marked out for those He chose, that destination being salvation and full glorification in heaven.
3. Gospel Call (or the outward call of the gospel - outward in that it happens outside of us “ the preaching of the gospel, heard with the physical ear) Full Text
Reformation Theology: Ordo Salutis (The Order of Salvation)
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None of those answer the question. But there's another question: are all people born deaf to be damned since they can't hear?
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Did you want the Reformed perspective, or did you come here to proselytize? You've received the answer.
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This forum is called "Ask A Calvinist". I want answers. Every post of mine has been a question, but you won't answer. Please show me where I've proselytized.
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I've provided the Reformed view on the order of salvation. Another poster pointed to Ephesians 1:4, which combined more than answer the OP.
Now, I am fairly certain that you don't like the Reformed view, but there is no other to give; therefore, it begins to be obvious that you aren't seeking an answer from a Calvinist. You are seeking to Debate a Calvinist, which is a different form. If I'm wrong, my apologies. Please correct me.
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Notice v9
2 Timothy 1:8-10New King James Version (NKJV)
Not Ashamed of the Gospel
8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, 10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,
So this was personally given to us to belong to Him before time began, so then, before the creation God had determined what He would do.
Titus 1:1-3New King James Version (NKJV)
Greeting
1 Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness, 2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began, 3 but has in due time manifested His word through preaching, which was committed to me according to the commandment of God our Savior;
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