When all does not mean all.

[Randy777]

Seriously? That is your claim?

Yes, the church didn't end with the death of the Apostles.
With light comes accountability to ALL.
"Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.

 

[Randy777]

I agree. "... no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit." So...

Anyone who has knees to bow and a tongue to speak, in heaven and on earth and under the earth (in the realm of the dead), will whole-heartedly, and without reservation, acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. No one can say that “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved. Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. (the reason for the bodily resurrection)

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,
“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Further reading: (Isaiah 45:23, Romans 14:11, Philippians 2:10, Revelation 15:4)

And clearly many in this world don't call Jesus Lord. They do not listen and learn from the Father for if they did they would have gone to Jesus for life. And as Jesus stated it was His Fathers will to raise them up on the last day.

 

[Saint Steven]

Yes, the church didn't end with the death of the Apostles.
With light comes accountability to ALL.
"Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.

What? Here's what you wrote.

Randy777 said: ↑
But Jesus said the gospel must be preached to all nations before the end comes. Obviously the limited lifespans of the apostles means the message would be sent by o

 

[Saint Steven]

And clearly many in this world don't call Jesus Lord. They do not listen and learn from the Father for if they did they would have gone to Jesus for life. And as Jesus stated it was His Fathers will to raise them up on the last day.

I don't think you had time to read my whole post.

Saint Steven said: ↑
I agree. "... no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit." So...

Anyone who has knees to bow and a tongue to speak, in heaven and on earth and under the earth (in the realm of the dead), will whole-heartedly, and without reservation, acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. No one can say that “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved. Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. (the reason for the bodily resurrection)

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,
“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Further reading: (Isaiah 45:23, Romans 14:11, Philippians 2:10, Revelation 15:4)

 

[Randy777]

What? Here's what you wrote.

Randy777 said: ↑
But Jesus said the gospel must be preached to all nations before the end comes. Obviously the limited lifespans of the apostles means the message would be sent by o

Yes
Just as He prayed for those who would believe in Him through their message.

 

[Randy777]

I don't think you had time to read my whole post.

Saint Steven said: ↑
I agree. "... no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit." So...

Anyone who has knees to bow and a tongue to speak, in heaven and on earth and under the earth (in the realm of the dead), will whole-heartedly, and without reservation, acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. No one can say that “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved. Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. (the reason for the bodily resurrection)

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,
“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Further reading: (Isaiah 45:23, Romans 14:11, Philippians 2:10, Revelation 15:4)

I did get the gist of your post but do all call Jesus lord and christ? Why not? And so then all are not saved for they are not able to enter because of their lack of faith. Jesus stated those who listen and learn from the Father come to Him. So if one rejects Jesus they are not listening and learning from the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

 

[Clare73]

There is conflicting biblical support for all three doctrinal views of the final judgment. I never claimed that they all agree. On the contrary.

If there was a possibility that a forever burning hell was false, wouldn't you want to consider it?
Or will you fight tooth and claw to preserve hell?

Strawman. . .Randy has no power to "preserve hell."

 

[Clare73]

To the best of my knowledge the Apostle Paul wrote this. How can you say the Apostles never taught this?

You set Scripture in contradiction to itself. . .that's how you can say the apostles never taught this.

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

 

[Clare73]

I used to believe that unquestioningly until I read this scripture below. Then a light went on. The term "those who believe" is a subset of "all people".

1 Timothy 4:10
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

Savior is not just spiritual. He preserves and prospers them in the natural order, he also has not made their condemnation immutable,
as with the fallen angels; man has fallen but can be saved, the fallen angels cannot.

 

[parousia70]

But Jesus said the gospel must be preached to all nations before the end comes. Obviously the limited lifespans of the apostles means the message would be sent by o

Sent by o?
Did you meant to type sent by others, ostensibly after the apostles were gone?

Anyway... let's set that aside and get to the meat of your post...
Whenever anyone makes a claim about what any particular passage in the Bible teaches, and starts their claim with "Obviously it means...." it IMMEDIATELY raises a red flag for me...

Why is it "obvious" to you?

Why should it be "obvious" to me?

It's not obvious to me at all.

For Paul Himself testifies that the gospel was indeed preached to ALL nations, the WHOLE world, and indeed EVERY Creature under heaven in the 1st century, by the Mid 60's AD.
Clearly fulfilling Jesus' proclamation in Matthew 24:14.

Observe the Infallible Testimony of the Apostle:

Colossians 1:5-6 because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, 6 which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth fruit, as it is also among you since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth;

Colossians 1:23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Romans 16:25-26 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began 26 but now has been made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures has been made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith;

Now, either you are correct, or Paul is correct.

Any guess as to which one of the two of you my money is on?

 

[Saint Steven]

And clearly many in this world don't call Jesus Lord. They do not listen and learn from the Father for if they did they would have gone to Jesus for life. And as Jesus stated it was His Fathers will to raise them up on the last day.

You are limiting it to this lifetime and realm. Look at what the scripture says.
Every tongue and every knee, in heaven and on earth and under the earth. (in the realm of the dead) Not just on earth, not in just this lifetime.

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

 

[Randy777]

You are limiting it to this lifetime and realm. Look at what the scripture says.
Every tongue and every knee, in heaven and on earth and under the earth. (in the realm of the dead) Not just on earth, not in just this lifetime.

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

So God makes even the dead bow to Christ just as Christ will make some bow down to those who loves Him. That doesn't imply Gods family but His enemies.

I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars--I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.

 

[Randy777]

Sent by o?
Did you meant to type sent by others, ostensibly after the apostles were gone?

Anyway... let's set that aside and get to the meat of your post...
Whenever anyone makes a claim about what any particular passage in the Bible teaches, and starts their claim with "Obviously it means...." it IMMEDIATELY raises a red flag for me...

Why is it "obvious" to you?

Why should it be "obvious" to me?

It's not obvious to me at all.

For Paul Himself testifies that the gospel was indeed preached to ALL nations, the WHOLE world, and indeed EVERY Creature under heaven in the 1st century, by the Mid 60's AD.
Clearly fulfilling Jesus' proclamation in Matthew 24:14.

Observe the Infallible Testimony of the Apostle:

Colossians 1:5-6 because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, 6 which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth fruit, as it is also among you since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth;

Colossians 1:23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Romans 16:25-26 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began 26 but now has been made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures has been made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith;

Now, either you are correct, or Paul is correct.

Any guess as to which one of the two of you my money is on?

You think Paul preached the gospel to china or japan or the Americas (north and south) or Korea?
Paul preached to his known world. Jesus said His house would be full and Paul noted the full number of gentiles. Jesus's known world with His understanding would be greater.

 

[Randy777]

Strawman. . .Randy has no power to "preserve hell."

I have no need to preserve anything. The 2nd death is in scripture for all to read. And we believe in a resurrection of the unrighteous to judgment as in to be condemned. Hell is not something new that I invented.

 

[Saint Steven]

So God makes even the dead bow to Christ just as Christ will make some bow down to those who loves Him. That doesn't imply Gods family but His enemies.

I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars--I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.

Again, you need to read my entire post to understand more than the gist.
The definition of "acknowledge" tells us that they will whole-heartedly, and without reservation, acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. Not under compulsion, or as enemies.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

 

[Randy777]

Again, you need to read my entire post to understand more than the gist.
The definition of "acknowledge" tells us that they will whole-heartedly, and without reservation, acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. Not under compulsion, or as enemies.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Those under the earth suggest the unrighteous.
I would think anyone who died would then know Jesus is who He claimed to be. Jesus would tell them, "I don't know you".

 

[Randy777]

Again, you need to read my entire post to understand more than the gist.
The definition of "acknowledge" tells us that they will whole-heartedly, and without reservation, acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. Not under compulsion, or as enemies.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

I don't agree. I believe Gods enemies will be made to bow to Jesus and declare Him Lord. Of course on the other side they will known with certainty Jesus is who He claimed to be.

 

[Saint Steven]

Those under the earth suggest the unrighteous.
I would think anyone who died would then know Jesus is who He claimed to be. Jesus would tell them, "I don't know you".

So, the omniscient one has a short memory? Is that what you are saying? - lol

 

[Saint Steven]

I don't agree. I believe Gods enemies will be made to bow to Jesus and declare Him Lord. Of course on the other side they will known with certainty Jesus is who He claimed to be.

The NT Greek disagrees with you. I gave you the Strong's definition of "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:10-11.

Anyone who has knees to bow and a tongue to speak, in heaven and on earth and under the earth (in the realm of the dead), will whole-heartedly, and without reservation, acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. No one can say that “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved. Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. (the reason for the bodily resurrection)

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,
“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Further reading: (Isaiah 45:23, Romans 14:11, Philippians 2:10, Revelation 15:4)

 

[Randy777]

The NT Greek disagrees with you. I gave you the Strong's definition of "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:10-11.

Anyone who has knees to bow and a tongue to speak, in heaven and on earth and under the earth (in the realm of the dead), will whole-heartedly, and without reservation, acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. No one can say that “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved. Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. (the reason for the bodily resurrection)

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,
“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Further reading: (Isaiah 45:23, Romans 14:11, Philippians 2:10, Revelation 15:4)

The one who was given a name above every name knows who everyone is even to their inward thoughts and attitudes of their hearts yet He states to many "I don't know you"

There is no teaching of those in Hell or the lake of fire or the prison place of spirits being redeemed. Those spirits in prison will rise to be condemned. Its a sad day to even have to debate such things.
Lord Jesus what has happened to the church?

Gods final word:
He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

6He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”