When all does not mean all.

[Saint Steven]

Everybody is going to be raised from the dead, but I'll go with the meaning of 1 Corinthians 15:22 that all in Adam died (everybody) and all in Christ (believers) will be made alive.

For the "meaning" of 1 Corinthians 15:22, see post #53 on page three, or #117 above. @public hermit

 

[zoidar]

For the "meaning" of 1 Corinthians 15:22, see post #53 on page three, or #117 above. @public hermit

I don't think ...

Also in Rom 5:15 I believe Paul means all/the many in Adam died and the gift of righteousness is only given believers, all/the many in Christ.

But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.
— Romans 5:15

 

[Saint Steven]

I don't think ...

Also in Rom 5:15 I believe Paul means all/the many in Adam died and the gift of righteousness is only given believers, all/the many in Christ.

But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.
— Romans 5:15

You don't think ... ??? Okay.

By the transgression of the one, how many died? (the many = all)
Much more so did the grace of God abound to the many? (the many = all)
The gift is not like the transgression. Was it better, or worse? (worse = not all)

 

[zoidar]

You don't think ... ??? Okay.

By the transgression of the one, how many died? (the many = all)
Much more so did the grace of God abound to the many? (the many = all)
The gift is not like the transgression. Was it better, or worse? (worse = not all)

It could be that the grace of God is so much bigger to those that believe, than what came from the transgression of Adam. I see that as good news, not bad news.

 

[Saint Steven]

It could be that the grace of God is so much bigger to those that believe, than what came from the transgression of Adam. I see that as good news, not bad news.

So grace is big enough for those who believe but not big enough for those who don't believe? Sounds like a tight fit. - lol

 

[Available Light]

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

So all die in adam and so all will be made alive.

However, since - eternal torment -

It means some people don't die, since most people will not be made alive in Christ.

Comments?

You might read the entire context, to see you are in gross damnationist error -
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Yup, Jesus is making ALL THINGS NEW - Rev 21:5

 

[Clare73]

When all does not mean all:

When it contradicts

Jn 3:18 - "Whoever does not believe in the Son stands condemned already."

Jn 3:36 - "Whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

 

[Saint Steven]

You might read the entire context, to see you are in gross damnationist error -
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Yup, Jesus is making ALL THINGS NEW - Rev 21:5

Hooray! What a great post. Thanks!
I added this one to my collection.
Welcome to the forum.

 

[Randy777]

You don't think ... ??? Okay.

By the transgression of the one, how many died? (the many = all)
Much more so did the grace of God abound to the many? (the many = all)
The gift is not like the transgression. Was it better, or worse? (worse = not all)

To be clear you believe everyone will enter the kingdom of God including those who do evil and do not believe God?

 

[Saint Steven]

To be clear you believe everyone will enter the kingdom of God including those who do evil and do not believe God?

No. I do not believe that. (as stated)

None who "do not believe God" will enter. And we have all done evil. Why segregate the aggregate? - lol

Saint Steven said: ↑
You don't think ... ??? Okay.

By the transgression of the one, how many died? (the many = all)
Much more so did the grace of God abound to the many? (the many = all)
The gift is not like the transgression. Was it better, or worse? (worse = not all)

 

[Saint Steven]

To be clear you believe everyone will enter the kingdom of God including those who do evil and do not believe God?

Do you agree, or disagree, with the definitions in my quote? (scripture below)

Saint Steven said: ↑
By the transgression of the one, how many died? (the many = all)
Much more so did the grace of God abound to the many? (the many = all)
The gift is not like the transgression. Was it better, or worse? (worse = not all)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Romans 5:15-16 NIV
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.

 

[Randy777]

Do you agree, or disagree, with the definitions in my quote? (scripture below)

Saint Steven said: ↑
By the transgression of the one, how many died? (the many = all)
Much more so did the grace of God abound to the many? (the many = all)
The gift is not like the transgression. Was it better, or worse? (worse = not all)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

I believe Jesus purchased the many for God by His blood. That the saints defined in Rev are those who hold to the testimony of Jesus and obey Gods commands. Those who refuse to believe and refuse to repent will perish. The man on the cross next to Jesus had his many sins forgiven by Jesus because He believed in Jesus. The other man on the cross did not receive an answer from Jesus because he did not believe. Jesus prayed for those who believed in Him and for those who would come to believe in Him through His message. As He stated He did not pray for the world in regard to what He asked of the Father

 

[Randy777]

Do you agree, or disagree, with the definitions in my quote? (scripture below)

Saint Steven said: ↑
By the transgression of the one, how many died? (the many = all)
Much more so did the grace of God abound to the many? (the many = all)
The gift is not like the transgression. Was it better, or worse? (worse = not all)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Romans 5:15-16 NIV
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.

Are you of mind that everyone's name is in the book of life because of Christ and their name is then removed because of disobedience and unbelief?

As in
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels.

 

[Saint Steven]

Are you of mind that everyone's name is in the book of life because of Christ and their name is then removed because of disobedience and unbelief?

As in
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels.

In a word, no.

 

[Randy777]

In a word, no.

Then how do you state all is all when clearly that is not the case. The ratio isn't even even. Wide road vs narrow road. The gift is better. The many sins of individuals were forgiven by the one act of Christ. (Purchased His His blood) Clearly its not for man to choose how to forgive sin. In Christ alone is no sin.

 

[Saint Steven]

Then how do you state all is all when clearly that is not the case. The ratio isn't even even. Wide road vs narrow road. The gift is better. The many sins of individuals were forgiven by the one act of Christ. (Purchased His His blood) Clearly its not for man to choose how to forgive sin. In Christ alone is no sin.

In the scripture in question, "all" definitely means all.
Did the one trespass result in condemnation for some people, or all people?
By the disobedience of the one man "the many" were made sinners.
Does "the many" means some, or all?

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

 

[Randy777]

In the scripture in question, "all" definitely means all.
Did the one trespass result in condemnation for some people, or all people?
By the disobedience of the one man "the many" were made sinners.
Does "the many" means some, or all?

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Again not the proper context=>one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people

Jesus didn't teach that. The Apostles didn't teach that.
Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God--

 

[Saint Steven]

Again not the proper context=>one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people

Jesus didn't teach that. The Apostles didn't teach that.
Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God--

There is conflicting biblical support for all three doctrinal views of the final judgment. I never claimed that they all agree. On the contrary.

If there was a possibility that a forever burning hell was false, wouldn't you want to consider it? Or will you fight tooth and claw to preserve hell?

 

[Saint Steven]

Again not the proper context=>one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people

Jesus didn't teach that. The Apostles didn't teach that.
Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God--

To the best of my knowledge the Apostle Paul wrote this. How can you say the Apostles never taught this?

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

 

[Randy777]

There is conflicting biblical support for all three doctrinal views of the final judgment. I never claimed that they all agree. On the contrary.

If there was a possibility that a forever burning hell was false, wouldn't you want to consider it? Or will you fight tooth and claw to preserve hell?

The unrighteous are raised to judgment as in to be condemned. I believe the words tormented in regard to the lake of fire suggests awareness. I believe there is no change of mind in regard to that judgment.
So there are "eternal" consequences.