Whatsoever you do to the least of My brethren, that you do unto Me.

[MariaRegina]

Didn't Christ say that we will be judged when we judge our brothers?

Who is our brother? Is it just Orthodox Christians? Or are we to be nice to Muslims and those who hate us?

Isn't use of sarcasm a judgment about others?

Aren't we thinking: "Boy, they are stupid, dense, stubborn ....."

What is your opinion about sarcasm or the use of the rollyeyed smilie ?

Do you think sarcasm is appropriate behavior of Orthodox Christians?

 

[Momzilla]

I think that sarcasm (or its literary cousin, satire) can sometimes be the "spoonful of sugar" that helps the medicine of criticism go down. In other words, sarcasm can be used as a means of loving correction, in which case it is not sinful, or it can be used to demean and belittle others, in which case it is sinful. As with everything else, it depends on the heart of the individual doing it.

I didn't vote on the poll because there wasn't a "sometimes, it depends" option. Good question, though!

 

[MariaRegina]

I think that sarcasm (or its literary cousin, satire) can sometimes be the "spoonful of sugar" that helps the medicine of criticism go down. In other words, sarcasm can be used as a means of loving correction, in which case it is not sinful, or it can be used to demean and belittle others, in which case it is sinful. As with everything else, it depends on the heart of the individual doing it.

I didn't vote on the poll because there wasn't a "sometimes, it depends" option. Good question, though!

Dear Momzilla:

Please give an example of the spoonful of sugar. I've never seen a good use of it.

Did Christ ever use sarcasm? He did use justifiable anger.

What type of speech is this: "You brood of vipers! Whitewashed sepulchres!" Christ was telling it like it was. This is not sarcasm, but metaphors, right?

We are to be saints. Saints are known for their loving, gentle way of correcting. Would that we all would behave as the saints that we should be. (How's that for sophisticated use of modals?}




Lovingly yours in Christ our God,
Elizabeth

 

[Cradle]

Can't identify myself with any of the answers either. But surely there is no distinction between Orthodox Christians and otherwise. We owe love to everybody, because the Lord suffered for everybody.

Sarcasm and satire are also close relatives of humour - is humour sinful? I don't think so, not as such. Of course, the same well-meant humourous comment may sound funny to somebody but offensive to somebody else. We should be careful. Trying to keep our spirits humble at all times can help. But generally it's not a black and white situation.

I for once was famous and popular among my colleagues for my sarcasm / satire in my previous job .

 

[MariaRegina]

Again, can you give an example of a Christian use of sarcasm?

What would your priest say if sarcasm was used in his presence?

 

[Moros]

Find me one passage in the Bible where Christ says "thou shalt not parody."

 

[Rilian]

I think being belittling or hurtful as Momzilla pointed out is wrong, but I think sarcasm can just be a means of taking a lighter look at things. It's all about context I suppose.

I'm wary just to say out of hand it's wrong. I've spent enough time in churches where being humorless and dour was seen as being "religious" and misery was a mark of personal piety. I read a piece by Fr. Schmemann last night saying the most damning criticism of Christianity was that of Nietzsche when he described Christians as being a people without joy.

Heaven help me if sarcasm becomes a true sin anyway, and I'm not being sarcastic.

 

[MariaRegina]

Okay, please visit the Fundy forum and you will see that our fundamentalist protestant brethren generally believe that sarcasm is a sin.

We can make puns - not sinful - although some priests don't even like the use of puns.

But when I asked my Orthodox Priest about sarcastic remarks. He said that it is wrong and sinful. Would you chance going to the grave with these unconfessed sins on your souls?

We can have a sense of humor. Read THE MOUNTAIN OF SILENCE by Kyriakos Markides. Those monks had a good sense of humor, but I didn't detect any sarcasm.

There was one particularly humorous episode (which I won't tell about, so that you can enjoy it) which showed the humor of the saints and God.

A joyless Christian is not a true Christian because one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is joy. In fact, I wasn't chrismated until I was willing to fast joyfully. That took a real conversion and God's loving mercy. Now I know the meaning of Bright sadness.

Hope this helps.
Elizabeth

 

[Cradle]

Again, can you give an example of a Christian use of sarcasm?

I used sarcasm in this forum in the following thread.

http://www.christianforums.com/t672985

Now that I'm reading it again, it was quite sharp sarcasm I think in fact .

I don't know if it's a Christian use, it's certainly a human use. We need to struggle for discretion and humility, and in order not to hurt others. I think the line between the "sinful" and the "non-sinful" areas is not always very clear and also depends on circumstances.

Let me give you an analogy. We are allowed to have complaints against others when we think they have been unfair to us. But we should not let the complaint evolve into hate, desire for revenge etc. To avoid that, we need prayer and humility. Likewise, innocent humour and well-meant constructive critisism are not necessarily sinful. But we need to exercise discretion as to when, how, to whom.

The oniondome.com is a form of sarcasm isn't it?

 

[MariaRegina]

I don't speak Greek, but I assume that you are speaking of Greek food. I didn't read post this as sarcasm, but as a serious problem which exists with people who think that being Greek Orthodox is synonymous with Greek culture, that they are Greek Orthodox by virtue of their birth. That being Greek Orthodox has nothing to do with following the canons of the Church. Instead of using the rollyeyed sarcasm smilie, I would favor the head banging smilie imported here.

to express my frustration with such ignorant people.

I live in England and therefore I do not intend to interfere with the problems of Orthodoxy in America. I believe the faithful in the US should agree upon their own model of handling the local church affairs. However, with all due respect, I find myself in disagreement with statements such as the following

"Our parents built the churches themselves, not the bishop in Turkey"

This man should not forget that "the churches" are neither his living room nor his souvlaki house but the House of the Lord. And they don't belong to him by inheritance or by culture, but to the Lord.

Real Orthodoxy is about avoiding the extremes of both roman clerical autocracy and protestant populism. I have heard stories about GOA parishes in the 80s where the parishioners literally sacked their priests because their long beards and their advice ("come to confession" and "prepare before you come to communion, preferably more than once a year") were not in line with the souvlaki-retsina-kamaki culture. Don't know if the stories are true, but my source (relative by blood) would not lie to me.

The Orthodox Way, the Way of the Holy Spirit, is always the middle way.

 

[Cradle]

More or less my point was what you understood, although a bit more general (I did mention protestant-like populism, not necessarily restricting to greeks, greek-americans or whatever). But anyway.

You expressed it in a serious fashion; I used sarcasm instead. You were not shocked or offended; glory to God for that. But if I had this guy face to face and told him "hey bloke, this church is not your living room or your restaurant", he would most probably be offended. I think in a different situation I ought to have phrased it differently. Hence my point : how, when, to whom.

I hope I make sense .

 

[MariaRegina]

More or less my point was what you understood, although a bit more general (I did mention protestant-like populism, not necessarily restricting to greeks, greek-americans or whatever). But anyway.

You expressed it in a serious fashion; I used sarcasm instead. You were not shocked or offended; glory to God for that. But if I had this guy face to face and told him "hey bloke, this church is not your living room or your restaurant", he would most probably be offended. I think in a different situation I ought to have phrased it differently. Hence my point : how, when, to whom.

I hope I make sense .

Yes, you did.

The way you wrote this post is not sinful.

Your actual utterance would be sinful: "hey bloke, this church is not your living room or your restaurant".

The sin is not so much in what is said, but in how it is said. This I fail in also. However, I'm trying to be more civil in my conversations and postings knowing that if I scandalize anyone causing them to lose the faith by my biting sarcastic tongue, it would have been better if a millstone were placed around my neck and my body dropped into the ocean.

 

[Cradle]

There you see we reached agreement .

 

[MariaRegina]

There you see we reached agreement .

Agreement?

I still view sarcasm as sinful.

We have to be very careful in what we say, to whom we say, and how we say utterances. If I address my priest with roll-eyes, that is considered disrespectful, and I would probably end up on the floor in a prostration.


If my son does something stupid and I give my husband a roll-eyed look, he may be offended, however my son definitely will be offended. It's just best not to use sarcasm.

Posts can be very ambiguous. Over in OBOB I was trying to express frustration using the rollyeyed smilie, only to be mistaken for sarcasm, which I never intended to express. Thank goodness the mod is considering trashing the entire thread now, due to the misunderstands generated by a stupid sneering smilie.

Over in the Suggestions Forum, I have a thread petitioning Erwin to replace the rollyeyed monster with a frustration smilie (the only banging his head against the wall).

If you agree, please contribute to the thread over in Suggestions.

 

[countrymousenc]

Well, I thought the question, "Did Jesus ever use sarcasm" was interesting, so I went looking.

5. "How can you say to your brother, `Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye?"

Luke 6:42a

I'd venture to say that whether or not sarcasm is sinful does depend on the context, and on the intent of the one who's using it. Jesus used it in this instance as a literary device (employing hyperbole) to drive home a point, and probably got a few sheepish grins.

As for the rolleyes emoticon, I think it's not evil in and of itself; again, it depends upon how we use it. I would like to have a different emoticon for expressing frustration, but we could even misuse a smilie hitting his head against a wall and still end up offending someone.

 

[MariaRegina]

Who posted that it's never a sin!

Look like we have a heretic in our midst!

 

[Matthias]

I vote no.

 

[MariaRegina]

Well, I thought the question, "Did Jesus ever use sarcasm" was interesting, so I went looking.

I'd venture to say that whether or not sarcasm is sinful does depend on the context, and on the intent of the one who's using it. Jesus used it in this instance as a literary device (employing hyperbole) to drive home a point, and probably got a few sheepish grins.

As for the rolleyes emoticon, I think it's not evil in and of itself; again, it depends upon how we use it. I would like to have a different emoticon for expressing frustration, but we could even misuse a smilie hitting his head against a wall and still end up offending someone.

How could we misuse a head banging smilie?

 

[MariaRegina]

"How can you say to your brother, `Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye?"

Luke 6:42a

This is more of a metaphor, not sarcasm, isn't it?

 

[countrymousenc]

Who posted that it's never a sin!

Look like we have a heretic in our midst!