SavedByChrist94 said:
In other words a murderer deserves the death penalty or life imprisonment for their crimes.
Uh, not necessarily. I just explained that.
Indeed, even if I accepted that at all times it would not compare to eternal torment for any "bad act". We do not say, imprison people or execute people just for lying.
Keep in mind, we are Eternal beings. therefore when we murder someone, we commit a serious crime, but it's Finitely punished.
As it should only be. Eternal punishment is an incoherent concept at best and a downright morally objectionable concept at worst.
The killer ends one physical , but not their life. while when you lie, steal, rape, hurt, disobey, and murder, it's against God. so watch this, murder in this world is a finite crime against someone, so it's punished finitely. with God, yes murder is punished fintely in this world, but that's a sin against God, and your Spirit, which are eternal.
Why does a sin against God require eternal punishment?
When you murder someone, it's wrong, and has to be punished, but only hurts the person finitely. when you rape or hurt someones feelings, you commit a crime against them eternally since their Spirit is eternal.
Why does someone existing eternally in spirit mean an act against them means that you have committed a crime against them eternally? To put it in finite terms if I say, steal from you does that mean that I have committed a crime against you for the
rest of your life?
Someone existing eternally =/= Crimes against them lasting for eternity
so in that way, lying, stealing, hurt, and rape are worst then murder(never said murder isn't wrong, so no one put words in my mouth, murder should be punished justly, and is punished eternally for by God for disobeying and going against Him.)
What a skewed moral compass
So actually it would be wrong for God not to punish sin eternally. if you disagree with that then you disagree with the whole Justice system and Immprisionment.
No, it would mean I disagree with the concept of eternal punishment for finite actions. Just because you describe acts of injustice against eternal beings as requiring an infinite response does not mean that it actually does.
in other words if you disagree with that then you would agree the a murderer only needs 1 night in jail for their crimes, which is wrong.
No, I would argue that a murderer needs as much time is required in jail and release
only if they have been seen to have reformed (after a long period of time incarcerated). The reason for incarcerating criminals is to protect the public not for vengeance as hell seems to be for Christians.
We also, by the way do not incarcerate people for victimless crimes. Worth pointing out that you follow a system that would imprison people eternally for victimless 'crimes' (such as homosexual intercourse, blasphemy etc.)
Why aren't you clicking the link? afraid I'll prove you wrong?
As I said:
"If you have a point regarding torture in hell and why you think we deserve it or on how I'm misrepresenting then go on and make it
but I am not arguing with a website."
you want to get more knowledge and Truth then click it, otherwise don't talk about Hell or tell us you look for Truth.
If you think anything from that website is specifically convincing then by all means, quote it and I'll respond. Otherwise I am not arguing with a website.
Yes it does, under "atheism"/"naturalism" rape wouldn't be wrong, which is false since rape is wrong.
No, it doesn't. Atheism tells me
nothing on what one ought. It makes no mention on what we ought to do. Atheism is a descriptive term for people who do not hold a belief in God(s).
Also, you never did address my point about nations in the other thread. If secularism is so detrimental, so damaging to basic moral ideas then how come the
best nations on the planet all tend to have the highest proportions of atheists?
Click the link, I dare you. If you do not I will accuse you of not wanting knowledge.
if you disagree you need to have God as the foundation for morality. so since rape is wrong, God must exist for that Moral Law, since that Moral Law is a Fact.
You have not made that argument. There is therefore no reason for me to believe that anyone needs God as a foundation for morality.
Yep, "libertarianism" which promotes Sins/wrongs such as abortion and homosexual behavior.
Actually, I said "Liberal" which is distinct from Libertarianism.
What principles? "atheism" has no principles.
No, it doesn't. But
I and other atheists have principles. I dislike being told by sanctimonious theists that I should be dishonest and pretend to believe in God for self-gain.
No you can't, since Jesus Christ Resurrected from the dead and "atheism" has no evidence, that means your only option according to Pascals Wager is The Lord Jesus Christ.
That's not how the wager works. The wager assumes
all options could be true and attempts to work about what one ought to based on the negative consequences of each one. If it assumes the truth of any ideology be it Christianity, Islam, Hindusim or anything else then the wager becomes defunct.
Notice the mindset, no one trying to manipulate, Me, and My Brothers and Sisters in Christ aren't out there to harm anyone, but convince for their own good.
You can call it what you want. I will continue to label the attitude as emotional manipulation.
you really think we have anything to gain? I could easily sit back and rejoice that I'm going to Heaven and not care about anyone else, but that is wrong.
Would God punish you for such an attitude, out of interest?
is it wrong to warn others about prison so that they don't commit crimes?
No, but their basis for not committing crime should be rooted in understanding why committing crime is wrong and
not for fear of punishment. That's not morality, that's fear.
You believe that, I don't. Any God that would suggest it is and would punish me for it is a God not worthy of worship.
Physical Death affects children and emotionally weak(I remember the nights I used to cry when I was brainwashed into thinking life ended at the grave, glad to know Life never ends), does that mean it isn't real?
Physical death affects
everyone. We know physical death is true because we observe it happening. We do not observe the existence of hell.
Of course! That's what we are to do. that's how I used Hell to show God exists, no one likes it so why would anyone make it up! no one would, people emphasise on it to warn others, but no one would make it up, thereby making Hell a Reality. therefore God exists and Christianity is The Truth.
What nonsense. By your logic Islam is true. No-one wants to go to the hell as outlined in Islam so therefore no-one would have made it up so therefore the hell in Islam exists and therefore Islam is true.
Exactly, that's my argument. no one could have made it up, especially The Prophets or Apostles, which proves my point, Hell is Real.
No, I still assert that hell was a human invention. Just no-one here invented the concept.
Yes you are, you're bitterness towards what Hell is and any consideration of it actually existing proves that you are threatened and there's no reason to be because you can come to The Lord Jesus Christ, you only threaten yourself, no one does it but you.
Again: I'm not threatened. This is all hypothetical to me. I don't believe in hell. I don't believe in Christianity. I am on a forum having a debate.
Also, it is worth pointing out that if hell is actually true then God is
directly threatening non-believers with it. It is the price he imposes on everyone for not converting to Christianity. If that is not intimidation then I do not know what is.
Yes it does, as no one would make it up, so that means it's Real.
So by your logic Scientology is true because no-one would make up such nonsense so therefore it's real.
People through history have made up all kinds of ridiculous things. Just because something appears horrible does not mean that no-one could have made it up.
Nope, don't change my words, I agree that Hell is where all evil will be punished forever as it righteously deserves. I'm not it's absurd, I'm saying it Logically and Necessary exists.
You invoked the
Criterion of Dissimilarity which suggests that a concept is so absurd that no-one could have made it up and thus it must be true. The entire line of reasoning is so hilarious to me. It basically argues that the more insane the more true.
I'm saying it's saying that No One Likes it, Criteria of Dissimilarity proves it Serves No One's Interest, not that it's absurd. it actually is Logical and Necessary as proven above.
You don't know, clearly, what the Criterion of Dissimilarity is.
No, I didn't.
you prove otherwise. with your attitude and All The Proof, Evidence, and Facts for God,
I am me. You are not. This means that I get sole power to determine what I do and do not believe. This means that by consequence get no say in what I do and do not believe. Stop telling me what I think, understand?
And The Proof, Evidence, and Facts make your "doubt" false.
I'm sure you believe this. At any rate it is entirely irrelevant. Belief is still not a choice and still a consequence of conviction.
Excuses. who said you had to answer to me? you can do as you please, however not answering me proves you are full of excuses.
I said I don't answer to you or God. You asked "Why?" I told you why.
So in your mind He's Impossible, that makes you a hypocrite as you claim you "lack belief" when you're actually the 2nd Definition(2B) of an
"atheist".
I'm sorry, but you have a dire comprehension issue with the English language. I never said that God is "impossible". I said it would be
"bizarre of me to think that I answer to a God that I don't think exists." There is no contradiction there. If I lack belief in a God(s) then by consequence I don't think that a God exists.
So every time you come here claiming to "lack belief" I'll show this quote which makes you a liar.
I am not responsible for your hideous representation of the English Language. Also, accuse me of lying again and I will involve the moderators. You keep claiming civility and then accuse people of lying to you in the other.
Exactly, if you weren't off putting, trying to save face, or avoid The Responsibility to look for Truth, then you would have just answered simple questions and looked at The Proof, Evidence, and Facts, not doing so shows you don't look for Truth.
I have answered your "simple questions". I will not be bull-baited by you or anyone to accept that my disbelief is insincere and some malignant excuse-making exercise. You do not get to make demands on anyone.