• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

What's wrong with James Randi's million dollar challenge?

RichardT

Contributor
Sep 17, 2005
6,642
195
35
Toronto Ontario
✟30,599.00
Faith
Pantheist
Marital Status
Single
By Richard Milton



James Randi's "$1 million challenge"
James-Randi.jpg
Most people have heard of the challenge by James Randi offering $1 million to anyone who can demonstrate psychic powers.
On the face of it, Randi's challenge must be a good thing mustn't it? There's a million dollars just sitting there waiting to be picked up, and all anyone has to do to win it is perform under controlled conditions the kind of claim we read about every day in the newspapers -- spoon bending, mind-reading, remote viewing.
So doesn’t the mere fact that no-one has won Randi's challenge prove that such things are impossible? As usual in the murky world of "skepticism", things are not exactly what they appear to be.
Randi's $1M challenge was unveiled on 1st April 1996. You can read its terms in full at the website of the James Randi Educational Foundation (JREF) the organisation administering the challenge.*
A quick glance through the provisions seems to show an eminently reasonable and fair challenge. But now go back and look again a little more carefully, this time with the kind of critical eye that Randi brings to exposing cheats and frauds. What you find are some ambiguities that are likely to make any serious claimant uneasy to say the least.
The first such ambiguity is contained in the preamble where it says, "Since claims vary greatly in character and scope, specific rules must be formulated for each applicant."
This means, quite reasonably, that the rules for any particular attempt cannot be finalised until a claimant steps forward and announces what he or she is going to do -- bend spoons, read minds or walk on fire. But it also means that Randi will fomulate the rules for each individual attempt at his challenge on an ad hoc basis. And, of course, the claimant has to agree to these ad hoc rules. If he or she does not agree, the contest will not take place at all.
The second ambiguity is in Clause 4, which says that "Tests will be designed in such a way that no "judging" procedure is required. Results will be self-evident to any observer, in accordance with the rules which will be agreed upon by all parties in advance of any formal testing procedure taking place."
This means, quite reasonably, that there will be no interminable arguments by 'experts' over statistical measurements. Either the spoon bends or it doesn't: either the claimant reads minds or he doesn't. The written rules, agreed up front, will decide.
But it also means that there will be no objective, independent judging or adjudication, by scientific criteria, carried out by qualified professional scientists. Randi alone will say whether the terms of the challenge have been met -- whether the metal was bent psychically, or the electronic instrument deflected by mental power, or the remote image was correctly reproduced. In the event that the claimant insists the written terms have been met, but Randi disagrees, then it will be Randi's decision that prevails.
Not only will Randi be the sole judge of whether the claimant is successful, but even if a claimant appeals on scientific grounds that he has met the agreed terms of the challenge, Randi will be the sole arbiter of any appeal as well. Randi says there will be "no judging". In reality, he is both judge and jury -- not only of the claimant's cause but of his own cause as well.
With these two major ambiguities in the rules it would not be surprising if Randi never found a serious claimant to accept his challenge. Any potential claimant who reads the rules carefully will be concerned about two things.
First that the terms enable Randi to draw up specific rules that are unwinnable -- and hence that no claimant would agree to -- and then enable him to claim that "no-one has won the prize".
Second there is Randi's own objectivity. His position can be understood from his own writings such as this.
"The scientific community, too, must bear the blame. When a Mississippi inventor obtained the signatures of some thirty Ph.D.'s (most of them physicists) on a document attesting that he had discovered a genuine "free-energy" machine (essentially a perpetual motion device), and when the U.S. Patent office issued a patent in 1979 to another inventor of a "permanent magnet motor" that required no power input, there was little reaction from the scientific community. The "cold fusion" farce should have been tossed onto the trash heap long ago, but justifiable fear of legal actions by offended supporters has stifled opponents." [Click here for the real scientific facts].
"These absurd claims, along with the claims of the dowsers, the homeopaths, the colored-light quacks and the psychic spoon-benders, can be directly, definitively, and economically tested and then disposed of if they fail the tests."
It doesn't seem to have occurred to Randi that the thirty Ph.Ds who attested to the new machine might know a little more about physics than he does.
Given uninformed and prejudiced views such as these, the concern will be that Randi, as sole judge of success, will never accept that paranormal phenomena have been demonstrated because his position is that he knows on a priori grounds that the paranormal is impossible and hence whatever the claimant has demonstrated must be merely an unexplained trick of some kind.
I put these ambiguities in the rules to James Randi. He dismissed them, saying only that I should "read the rules", and suggesting that I am a "nitpicker" and "pedant".
Randi is a non-scientist who has announced that -- by some undisclosed but non-scientific means -- he knows that such anomalous claims are farcical and 'absurd', and should be 'tossed on the trash heap.'
The real facts are that Randi is doing exactly what he has accused some scientists of: he has conducted no properly designed experiments, has published no empirical results (reproducible or otherwise) and has not submitted himself to any peer-review process. Yet he expects us to accept his conclusions as having some scientific significance and meriting attention.
Randi says, "There seems to be a certain quality of the human mind that requires the owner to get silly from time to time. Sometimes the condition becomes permanent, a part of the victim's personality."
Here, at least, are words that no-one can disagree with.
 

RichardT

Contributor
Sep 17, 2005
6,642
195
35
Toronto Ontario
✟30,599.00
Faith
Pantheist
Marital Status
Single
What happens to people who submit to Randi? (underlining and bolding was done by me)

Randi runs away

By Richard Milton

In June 1999, a Mr Rico Kolodzey of Germany wrote to James Randi and challenged for the reputed $1 million prize. Mr Kolodzey is one of several thousand people who believe and claim that they can live on water alone, absorbing 'prana' or life energy from space around them.
Now this claim is, to say the least, extraordinary. It is perhaps even more extraordinary that an individual should offer to prove this claim by submitting himself to a controlled test.
The claim is one that most people would treat with great skepticism, and might well run a mile from. But James Randi is not most people -- he is the person who has publicly claimed that he has $1 million on offer to all comers who challenge him and are willing to submit to rigorous testing, as Mr Kolodzey has offered to do.
It should not be very difficult to arrange a test of Mr Kolodzey's claim. All that is needed is to lock him in a police cell, under CCTV observation, with only water to drink. If he experiences significant measurable weight loss, or asks for food, then his claim is false. If, on the other hand, he does somehow survive on water alone, then Randi is wrong, conventional science is wrong, and Mr Kolodzey has won $1 million.
It ought therefore to have been a very simple matter for Randi to offer to lock Mr Kolodzey up for a week or two. But that is not what Randi did. Instead he ignored Mr Kolodzey entirely. When Mr Kolodzey wrote again to Randi asking about his challenge, he received the following email from Randi (later confirmed with a hard copy):-
Date: 6/18/99 12:03 PM
Mr. Kolodzey:
Don't treat us like children. We only respond to responsible claims.
Are you actually claiming that you have not consumed any food products except water, since the end of 1998? If this is what you are saying, did you think for one moment that we would believe it?
If this is actually your claim, you're a liar and a fraud. We are not interested in pursuing this further, nor will we exchange correspondence with you on the matter.
Signed, James Randi.
(A hard-copy of this letter will be sent by post to you, today.)

James Randi Educational Foundation
201 S.E. 12th Street (Davie Blvd.)
Fort Lauderdale, FL 33316-1815


So, now we know exactly how much confidence can be placed in James Randi's "challenge" and exactly how Randi behaves when confronted by a real challenger, willing to submit to rigorous scientific testing of his claims.
Randi runs away.
 
Upvote 0

Valkhorn

the Antifloccinaucinihilipili ficationist
Jun 15, 2004
3,009
198
44
Knoxville, TN
Visit site
✟26,624.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
So wait, you actually believe this guy hasn't eaten since 1998? Guess what, RichardT, if he hadn't, he'd be dead.

Are you this gullible?

Plus an experiment like this would possibly kill him.

Also your source seems to be 'alternativescience.com'. Could you cite that?
 
Upvote 0

TeddyKGB

A dude playin' a dude disgused as another dude
Jul 18, 2005
6,495
455
48
Deep underground
✟9,013.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Dear me. What will become of science and skepticism if Randi continues to avoid the really plausible claims, like... people who can survive without food?

Stand back. My entire worldview might come crashing down any minute.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Parmenio
Upvote 0

Valkhorn

the Antifloccinaucinihilipili ficationist
Jun 15, 2004
3,009
198
44
Knoxville, TN
Visit site
✟26,624.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Randi_Educational_Foundation

  • Randi has rejected at least one applicant, Rico Kolodzey, with the rejection letter stating this was because the applicant was "a liar and a fraud." The applicant in question claimed to survive without food via Breatharianism. [5]
Randi has commented on the specific case raised by the Alternative Science web site: see [6] and [7]. The possible explanation that Randi and the JREF will reject any applicants putting themselves in grave physical danger was however added years after the incident.[1] However, on May 19, 2006, Randi made a special exception to that rule due to all of the "raucous fuss" and began private negotiations for testing with Kolodzey. After 100 days of negotiations a test procedure still could not be agreed upon by both parties. Since progress on testing was apparently going nowhere, Randi went public on the stalled negotiations and commented that this is Kolodzey retreating from testing after making such a huge noise about not being tested [8].

As far as I'm concerned Randi did the right thing. This guy has debunked a lot of charlatans and frauds like Yuri Gellar and I'm glad he has been successful. He has even posted this challenge to Sylvia Browne (another fraud and liar) and I hope she finally accepts it.

But you're actually siding with Kolodzey? You ACTUALLY think this guy doesn't eat anything and lives?

Like I said before, you must be gullible.
 
Upvote 0

variant

Happy Cat
Jun 14, 2005
23,790
6,591
✟315,332.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
I think the man might have several worries about locking that man in a sealed ventilated box and allowing him only water and people to suck the life out of from a distance.

Personally I would like to see the test done to dissuade any other idiot who might actually believe him by seeing him die after a couple of weeks when fed only water.

At the very least let him go until he cries uncle and feed him a steak.
 
Upvote 0

Valkhorn

the Antifloccinaucinihilipili ficationist
Jun 15, 2004
3,009
198
44
Knoxville, TN
Visit site
✟26,624.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I think the man might have several worries about locking that man in a sealed ventilated box and allowing him only water and people to suck the life out of from a distance.

Personally I would like to see the test done to dissuade any other idiot who might actually believe him by seeing him die after a couple of weeks when fed only water.

At the very least let him go until he cries uncle and feed him a steak.

Randi didn't kill the guy or put him in critical condition in an ICU, therefore he's a fraud :p
 
Upvote 0

TheGnome

Evil Atheist Conspiracy PR Guy
Aug 20, 2006
260
38
Lincoln, Nebraska
✟23,107.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
I don't see why people have a problem with the million dollar challenge. If you have a special ability, identify what you are going to do beforehand so Randi and his colleagues can run a series of experiments to see if they can do it themselves. Then the individual with this special ability can perform this ability as he or she mentioned in a controlled environment in front of judges. Somehow the control makes that ability not work. The ability would work normally, but the control is doing something to affect the ability. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlfMsZwr8rc perfectly illustrates this. I mean, this guy went as far as to claim that light and styrofoam cause static electricity that interferes with his powers.

These people are either very gullible and believe their nonsense, or they're con artists. I prefer the latter, because they're nothing but disgraceful liars who let greed take over their ability to be honest. Uri Gellar and Syliva Browne are amongst these disgusting human beings. James Randi is doing us a service by exposing these frauds, yet people rather attack the man than praise him. Why? Do you want to continue believing in nonsense?
 
Upvote 0

JBJoe

Regular Member
Apr 8, 2007
1,304
176
Pacific Northwest
Visit site
✟30,211.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
So, now we know exactly how much confidence can be placed in James Randi's "challenge" and exactly how Randi behaves when confronted by a real challenger, willing to submit to rigorous scientific testing of his claims.
Randi runs away.

If you would bother to actually read something about the challenge you would know that there is a policy of not accepting a challenge if the failure of that challenge would lead to serious injury of the applicant.

Seriously, if one of these breatharians did apply, and they failed, you would be posting all over the internet that Randi caused death of an applicant, wouldn't you?

It annoys me no end that Randi, an atheist, has a better grip on the ethical and moral high ground than those here who should know better.
 
Upvote 0

JBJoe

Regular Member
Apr 8, 2007
1,304
176
Pacific Northwest
Visit site
✟30,211.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
The second ambiguity is in Clause 4, which says that "Tests will be designed in such a way that no "judging" procedure is required. Results will be self-evident to any observer, in accordance with the rules which will be agreed upon by all parties in advance of any formal testing procedure taking place."

Okay, got that admission? Any observer will be able to tell if the requirements were met. That is as objective as you get.

This means, quite reasonably, that there will be no interminable arguments by 'experts' over statistical measurements. Either the spoon bends or it doesn't: either the claimant reads minds or he doesn't. The written rules, agreed up front, will decide.
That's right the test is designed in such a way that any objective reading of the results and the challenge will determine success or failure.

But it also means that there will be no objective, independent judging or adjudication, by scientific criteria, carried out by qualified professional scientists.
No, you don't need qualified scientists to judge the results because AS WE JUST SAID any observer will come to the same conclusion. However there will be scientific criteria, so I would say that sentence is a lie.

Randi alone will say whether the terms of the challenge have been met -- whether the metal was bent psychically, or the electronic instrument deflected by mental power, or the remote image was correctly reproduced.
NO HE WON'T -- STOP LYING. There has already been an admission that ANY OBSERVER will be able to objectively determine the results. Randi will not subjectively decide ANYTHING. In fact Randi has to the best of my knowledge always recused himself from judging a challenge.

In the event that the claimant insists the written terms have been met, but Randi disagrees, then it will be Randi's decision that prevails.
Running with the same lie. Randi does not insert himself as judge into any challenge for obvious conflict of interest reasons.

Not only will Randi be the sole judge of whether the claimant is successful, but even if a claimant appeals on scientific grounds that he has met the agreed terms of the challenge, Randi will be the sole arbiter of any appeal as well.
Give it up, this lie is getting old. Randi doesn't judge the results. The challenge is always created in such a way that the results will be obvious to any observer.

Randi says there will be "no judging". In reality, he is both judge and jury -- not only of the claimant's cause but of his own cause as well.
No he doesn't. We have dozens of challenges that say otherwise. He is neither judge nor jury. What he does have a say in is the testing procedures. He is a professional magician, if someone is going to pull an Uri Geller, he can ensure conditions which will defeat a magicians slight of hand.
 
Upvote 0

JBJoe

Regular Member
Apr 8, 2007
1,304
176
Pacific Northwest
Visit site
✟30,211.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
I think the man might have several worries about locking that man in a sealed ventilated box and allowing him only water and people to suck the life out of from a distance.

Personally I would like to see the test done to dissuade any other idiot who might actually believe him by seeing him die after a couple of weeks when fed only water.

At the very least let him go until he cries uncle and feed him a steak.

It has been done: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasmuheen

People still believe.
 
Upvote 0

lemmings

Veteran
Nov 5, 2006
2,587
132
California
✟25,969.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
It has been done: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasmuheen

People still believe.
She claims that her DNA has expanded from 2 to 12 strands, to "absorb more hydrogen". The extra strands of DNA have not, of course, been demonstrated, and in fact when offered $30,000 to prove her claim with a blood test, she stated that "you cannot view spiritual energy under a microscope."
[removed]
To date, three deaths have been directly linked to breatharianism and her publications.
Natural Selection at work!!
 
Upvote 0

RichardT

Contributor
Sep 17, 2005
6,642
195
35
Toronto Ontario
✟30,599.00
Faith
Pantheist
Marital Status
Single
RichardT, I have seen some of Randi's tests - some are even available on YouTube. For one of them he actually had a paranormal investigator - and even he agreed that the test failed.

Alright, link some, I just found what Richard Milton had to say interesting.
 
Upvote 0

RichardT

Contributor
Sep 17, 2005
6,642
195
35
Toronto Ontario
✟30,599.00
Faith
Pantheist
Marital Status
Single
MPORTANT: Only claims that can be verified by evidence under proper observing conditions will be accepted. Also, JREF will NOT accept claims of the existence of deities or demons/angels, the validity of exorcism, religious claims, cloudbusting, causing the Sun to rise or the stars to move, etc. JREF will also NOT test claims that are likely to cause injury of any sort, such as those involving the withholding of air, food or water, or the use of illicit materials, drugs, or dangerous devices.

fine.
 
Upvote 0

RichardT

Contributor
Sep 17, 2005
6,642
195
35
Toronto Ontario
✟30,599.00
Faith
Pantheist
Marital Status
Single
The best part of breatharianism, however, is Jasmuheens admittal that she frequently does eat (cookies and tea, IIRC) - however, she does this solely for the pleasure and taste, not because she'd otherwise die or something.

hahahahaha
 
Upvote 0