Has anyone noticed that more and more Christian singers and bands, are beginning to say that they do not want to be "labeled" christian nor secular just artists? What's up with that?
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What's Up With the "Labeling?"
- Thread starter aria384gp:)
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xpunkskaterx
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yeah, here's the way i look at it. i'm a composer/musician (well, i write lots of different kinds of music, instrumental included)
i wouldnt say i'm a 'christian' composer, or musician. in my eye, a christian musician is someone who uses music as a vehicle to evangelise people, or minister to chrisitans etc.
i dont' write music 'about' stuff (i write music that happens to have vocals in it, not songs) so it doesn't have a 'message' if you know what i mean.... i consider myself to be a composer/musician who is a christian, and who trys to represent god through music.
i guess thats why others dont want to be called 'chrisian musicians' cos they're just there to play music, cos it's what they love to do...
clear as mud? i don't know how clear that is...
i wouldnt say i'm a 'christian' composer, or musician. in my eye, a christian musician is someone who uses music as a vehicle to evangelise people, or minister to chrisitans etc.
i dont' write music 'about' stuff (i write music that happens to have vocals in it, not songs) so it doesn't have a 'message' if you know what i mean.... i consider myself to be a composer/musician who is a christian, and who trys to represent god through music.
i guess thats why others dont want to be called 'chrisian musicians' cos they're just there to play music, cos it's what they love to do...
clear as mud? i don't know how clear that is...
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I guess I'm the only one who feels differently. 
I mean the whole reason why they are ministering in song is not only to entertain, and in the words of Ryan Dobson at the X2004 concert: "These guys are not here to just entertain you, but they're here to spread the word of God to the world."
I mean that's just how I look at it as well. If you're a christian and you are singing for God, then you're a Christian artist, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. And further more, you shouldn't be ashamed to say so. I don't know, everytime I read about another artist who says they don't want to be "labeled" a christian artist always reminds of the scripture: "If you deny me before men, I will deny you before My Father." Doesn't that bother anyone? Why would you want to hid the fact that you're a christian? And if they are trying to reach other people, how can they do that when non-believers read their statements and probably think, "Well, look at these guys they don't even want to be associated with what they believe in. They don't want to "labeled" christian or secular, they just want to be neutral."
Well, guess what guys, when it comes to God, I believe that there's no such thing as being "neutral". And in the words of DC Talk:
"What will people think if they hear that I'm a Jesus Freak.
What will people do if they find out it's true?
I don't really care if they label me a Jesus Freak! There ain't no denying the truth. No I ain't into hiding the truth."
Just my thoughts.
I mean the whole reason why they are ministering in song is not only to entertain, and in the words of Ryan Dobson at the X2004 concert: "These guys are not here to just entertain you, but they're here to spread the word of God to the world."
I mean that's just how I look at it as well. If you're a christian and you are singing for God, then you're a Christian artist, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. And further more, you shouldn't be ashamed to say so. I don't know, everytime I read about another artist who says they don't want to be "labeled" a christian artist always reminds of the scripture: "If you deny me before men, I will deny you before My Father." Doesn't that bother anyone? Why would you want to hid the fact that you're a christian? And if they are trying to reach other people, how can they do that when non-believers read their statements and probably think, "Well, look at these guys they don't even want to be associated with what they believe in. They don't want to "labeled" christian or secular, they just want to be neutral."
Well, guess what guys, when it comes to God, I believe that there's no such thing as being "neutral". And in the words of DC Talk:
"What will people think if they hear that I'm a Jesus Freak.
What will people do if they find out it's true?
I don't really care if they label me a Jesus Freak! There ain't no denying the truth. No I ain't into hiding the truth."
Just my thoughts.
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Of course neutrality is not an option, but the simple fact of the matter is that there is no such thing as a "Christian" artist. No matter how hard the industry pre-packages the living daylights out of people, there is no "Christian" music. THe identity of the artist will naturally filter through them and into their art.
I am a very passionate Christian but I would hate my band to be called a "Christian" band because we are not a stereotypical Christian band. We play in clubs and bars not churches, and we tackle social justice issues, homelessness, politics, corporate abuses, and generally try to speak to the culture. I just don't think you can label music.....
peace
Lounge MD
I am a very passionate Christian but I would hate my band to be called a "Christian" band because we are not a stereotypical Christian band. We play in clubs and bars not churches, and we tackle social justice issues, homelessness, politics, corporate abuses, and generally try to speak to the culture. I just don't think you can label music.....
peace
Lounge MD
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sad astronaut
Robot in Disguise
I know what you mean. I think it's good that Christian artists are getting out into the mainstream, but it seems some of them don't even want people to know they are Christians. I don't think an artist has to constantly yell out, "hey, I'm Christian, I'm Christian, I'm Christian", but when they are asked about it, they shouldn't have to say "well, we consider ourselves spiritual", or "let the music speak for itself". I've read interviews with these type of Christian artists, and it is almost like they are trying to keep it a secret.aria384gp:) said:
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Ok, one thing you should know is that Evanescence is NOT christian, they even said so themselves. In fact, their producer even told Christian stores to take their album off of their shelves, and that if the store owners actually listened to what was on their CD, they would in no way be promoting it.aLx said:
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Exactly, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this way. It's like that song from Pillar:sad astronaut said:
"It's a shame to be ashamed
To be ashamed of the One that we should glorify"
Just my thoughts
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Oh, yeah, and I didn't mean to sound rough about the whole Evan.... thing. And I totaly understood the point you were trying to make. Did you understand the point I was trying to make?aLx said:
BTW: You thought EVAN... was christian because you saw it in the christian bookshop, right? So what do you think other people think of christian artists that they hear or see in the mainstream?
Just my thoughts.
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aLx
Gracias dios por Jesús
Lol dont worry about it, u didnt sound rough.Oh, yeah, and I didn't mean to sound rough about the whole Evan.... thing. And I totaly understood the point you were trying to make. Did you understand the point I was trying to make?
BTW: You thought EVAN... was christian because you saw it in the christian bookshop, right? So what do you think other people think of christian artists that they hear or see in the mainstream?
Just my thoughts.
Yeah thats a very good point. Unfortunatly I know, and Im sure almost everyone does, people that would not even touch it becuase it is labelled as christian. They would instantly dismiss it, even though it may have little to do with Jesus and more to do with other stuff that 'neutral' artists sing about.
A good example to bring up is Stacie Orrico (spelling?). She is a christian and listening to her songs you can see how they relate to God, but she is not labelled as one, so more people are more likely to take a 2nd look at her work.
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Hey... New here, been looking around for a place to hop in, this seems as good as any.
I'm a musician as well, and I should preface this by saying that's where my perspective comes from.
I am 100% pushing for a world where "Christian music" is no longer a genre unto itself.
Why?
The reasons are many. Some points have already been made here, but I'd add to it this - there is a lot of Christian music, including much worship music, that is... Well, simply subpar music. Granted, there's a lot of garbage in the mainstream, too. But some bands that get out on Christian labels, I get the distinct impression that their music wouldn't be out if they were just another band. They just wouldn't have been good enough - but instead, they got signed to a Christian label eager to market them to the many who will buy music that isn't very good, as long as it's being made by Christians. This is a huge problem that has plagued artists - part of the reason they are attempting to distance themselves from the "Christian artist" stigma is precisely this.
Further - once you declare yourself a Christian artist, you open yourself up to all kinds of scrutiny. In some ways this is good - in some, though, it can be incredibly stifling. For example - many bands known as "Christian" are criticized when they have songs about things that do not necessarily directly relate to God - or at least, they don't make the connection in a song. They are somehow not allowed to address issues - another way to put it is the "J-word quota" - you have to say Christ's name a certain amount of times on the album, or else you aren't a real Christian band. See what I mean?
Now, the objection has been raised - either you're for God, or you aren't - that's certainly true. But the problem with this, is that musicians and artists are being held to a standard that no other professional is. We don't run around telling our friends that they have to be Christian plumbers, Christian waitresses or Christian architects - do we?
The argument comes "Yes, but those people do not tie art with their vocation - once you do, you must use it to represent God" - but what about painters? Are they free only to paint religious pictures? What about the great classical masters - their music lacked lyrics in many many cases, but surely it was still to the glory of God. And something tells me that their praise, written hundreds of years ago, will last longer than CCM will.
Were I to go out and make a living performing and playing, I would simply do my best with what I was given - I would play and write the best art I could, as an offering to God. What I wanted to write about or address with it, I would - my faith would be a part of my views and perspective, surely, but I would not force myself to put out a "message" with every song. I'm a musician - I'm not an evangelist, at least any more than anyone else is. I'd let my words and conduct be a witness, let my faith be known - I wouldn't be ashamed of it, but I wouldn't be exclusively playing in churches, or trying to be on a Christian label, and forcing my art to conform what someone else says it should be.
CS Lewis, a man I've come to respect quite a lot, had views on just this sort of issue. He said, and I'm paraphrasing of course, that "instead of a bunch of Christians writing great Christian books, what if Christians wrote great books on other subjects? And, what if they did it so well that a man couldn't look for an authoritative reference on much of anything without having to read something written by a Christian? What would this make people think of Christianity?" I'm of the same belief concerning music - instead of focusing on making "Christian music," Christian musicians should focus instead on making the highest art they can - regard not the message as the only important aspect - but write the notes as if you were playing it for God - because you are. Pay attention not just to the message, but to the poetry and elegance of the words. We know the ultimate creator - let us draw near to Him and be creative. If Christian artists did this, can you imagine the impact on society? If radio stations that wanted to play the best, most engaging music had to play music made by Christians?
It is wrong to be ashamed of our faith - but, do not mistake someone not wanting to be pigeon-holed or stereotyped for being ashamed. Switchfoot, in a recent interview, was quoted as saying, "We're Christian by faith, not genre." Amen to that.
Sorry for the long winded first post. But it's an issue I'm rather personally attached to, if you didn't notice.
I'm a musician as well, and I should preface this by saying that's where my perspective comes from.
I am 100% pushing for a world where "Christian music" is no longer a genre unto itself.
Why?
The reasons are many. Some points have already been made here, but I'd add to it this - there is a lot of Christian music, including much worship music, that is... Well, simply subpar music. Granted, there's a lot of garbage in the mainstream, too. But some bands that get out on Christian labels, I get the distinct impression that their music wouldn't be out if they were just another band. They just wouldn't have been good enough - but instead, they got signed to a Christian label eager to market them to the many who will buy music that isn't very good, as long as it's being made by Christians. This is a huge problem that has plagued artists - part of the reason they are attempting to distance themselves from the "Christian artist" stigma is precisely this.
Further - once you declare yourself a Christian artist, you open yourself up to all kinds of scrutiny. In some ways this is good - in some, though, it can be incredibly stifling. For example - many bands known as "Christian" are criticized when they have songs about things that do not necessarily directly relate to God - or at least, they don't make the connection in a song. They are somehow not allowed to address issues - another way to put it is the "J-word quota" - you have to say Christ's name a certain amount of times on the album, or else you aren't a real Christian band. See what I mean?
Now, the objection has been raised - either you're for God, or you aren't - that's certainly true. But the problem with this, is that musicians and artists are being held to a standard that no other professional is. We don't run around telling our friends that they have to be Christian plumbers, Christian waitresses or Christian architects - do we?
The argument comes "Yes, but those people do not tie art with their vocation - once you do, you must use it to represent God" - but what about painters? Are they free only to paint religious pictures? What about the great classical masters - their music lacked lyrics in many many cases, but surely it was still to the glory of God. And something tells me that their praise, written hundreds of years ago, will last longer than CCM will.
Were I to go out and make a living performing and playing, I would simply do my best with what I was given - I would play and write the best art I could, as an offering to God. What I wanted to write about or address with it, I would - my faith would be a part of my views and perspective, surely, but I would not force myself to put out a "message" with every song. I'm a musician - I'm not an evangelist, at least any more than anyone else is. I'd let my words and conduct be a witness, let my faith be known - I wouldn't be ashamed of it, but I wouldn't be exclusively playing in churches, or trying to be on a Christian label, and forcing my art to conform what someone else says it should be.
CS Lewis, a man I've come to respect quite a lot, had views on just this sort of issue. He said, and I'm paraphrasing of course, that "instead of a bunch of Christians writing great Christian books, what if Christians wrote great books on other subjects? And, what if they did it so well that a man couldn't look for an authoritative reference on much of anything without having to read something written by a Christian? What would this make people think of Christianity?" I'm of the same belief concerning music - instead of focusing on making "Christian music," Christian musicians should focus instead on making the highest art they can - regard not the message as the only important aspect - but write the notes as if you were playing it for God - because you are. Pay attention not just to the message, but to the poetry and elegance of the words. We know the ultimate creator - let us draw near to Him and be creative. If Christian artists did this, can you imagine the impact on society? If radio stations that wanted to play the best, most engaging music had to play music made by Christians?
It is wrong to be ashamed of our faith - but, do not mistake someone not wanting to be pigeon-holed or stereotyped for being ashamed. Switchfoot, in a recent interview, was quoted as saying, "We're Christian by faith, not genre." Amen to that.
Sorry for the long winded first post. But it's an issue I'm rather personally attached to, if you didn't notice.
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I agree about the bands getting pigeon holed and it is wrong but i also think that if u are a band that always glorifies God u need to always say that u are a Christian band and u should be proud of it!Subtotal said:
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Well, not deny being Christians, certainly, but why the need to always say it and make it such an issue? I'd appeal again to looking at other careers - it isn't expected that if you're a Christian, you must constantly tell everyone that you are. You just live the right way, and if it comes up, share your faith if appropriate, generally. Why not just let it affect how you conduct yourself and go about your business as a musician and as a band?
I think part of the resentment that many people feel towards Christian music is due to it becoming such an issue - I think it seems to the "mainstream" (all too correctly, oftentimes) that Christians are just using music as a means to further their agenda, not as a means to really express themselves creatively and honestly. While wanting to get the message of Christ out is an admirable thing, I'm not sure it's a valid reason to start a band. If you're an evangelist, evangelize, if you're a musician - play music. Those are two different things, and they can remain so for a Christian without him/her being ashamed of the gospel.
I think part of the resentment that many people feel towards Christian music is due to it becoming such an issue - I think it seems to the "mainstream" (all too correctly, oftentimes) that Christians are just using music as a means to further their agenda, not as a means to really express themselves creatively and honestly. While wanting to get the message of Christ out is an admirable thing, I'm not sure it's a valid reason to start a band. If you're an evangelist, evangelize, if you're a musician - play music. Those are two different things, and they can remain so for a Christian without him/her being ashamed of the gospel.
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brettnolan
Senior Member
But if you promote yourself as a Christian this or that, knowing that doing so will immediately keep the majority of unsaved people from hearing what you have to say, then you are, in effect, hiding your light.aria384gp:) said:
Better to sneak up on them I say. Examples, Jars of Clay, Sixpence, Switchfoot, 12 Stones.
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How can you be hiding your light if they will already know who and what you stand for?
I would think it would be the other way around. I know let's take a survey! Yeah, let's take a survey and ask non-believers what they think of christian artists who play on mainstream stations. This is a very good idea, I think, and maybe will give all of us some factual data to back-up our belief. mmmm...something to chew on I guess.....
I would think it would be the other way around. I know let's take a survey! Yeah, let's take a survey and ask non-believers what they think of christian artists who play on mainstream stations. This is a very good idea, I think, and maybe will give all of us some factual data to back-up our belief. mmmm...something to chew on I guess.....
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