What's the difference between "dating" and "engagement" ?

[vortigen84]

What exactly are the differences between a "dating" relationship and an "engagement" ?

What sort of discussion and activities belong in an engagement that don't belong in dating? It seems to me that "dating" is a term used both for one-on-one get-to-know-you activities, and also for more romantic purposes.

If you already have a female friend that you want, do you date, or can you just skip all that and propose and then get engaged? (Assuming she says yes).

Sorry if my questions seem naive, but I'm from New Zealand.

 

[Puptart]

What exactly are the differences between a "dating" relationship and an "engagement" ?

For me? Engagement means "We're now planning the wedding" plain and simple. If you aren't ready to sit down and plan a wedding, don't get engaged, I have no tolerance for this "Let's get engaged while we're in college and wait 5 years before we actually have a wedding" stuff

Dating and Engagement are, for most people, just two different commitment levels. Dating is "getting to know you" -- Engagement is "I know you and I want to marry you."

What sort of discussion and activities belong in an engagement that don't belong in dating?

I don't personally consider any topics "off limits" per-se since dating is the phase where you really need to get to know the other person; however, the pace at which you take certain topics may be important.

If you already have a female friend that you want, do you date, or can you just skip that and propose and then get engaged? (Assuming she says yes).

Regarding proposing to a friend... If you've gotten to know each other very well, have an attraction (mental, physical, spiritual, whatever is important) and a compatibility that you clearly recognize, then sure. Why not? I will admit I hadn't thought of doing it quite like that, but since you bring it up, I see how real reason not to! As you said, assuming she says yes

I tend to think our modern dating cycle is cumbersome, annoying, far too long and at times entirely immature though, so I'm somewhat biased in favor of shorting dating cycles and getting right to the point. ("Do you want to get married or not" )

The key is just making sure you know this other person. For some people the level of "knowing" doesn't occur during a normal friendship, and in my opinion the engagement phase should NOT be an "extension" of the dating phase. Engagement is "plan the wedding" in my book and nothing more. But if you've gotten to know this friend to a level you believe is entirely reasonable that progressing into a marriage is something you think would work, then again I don't see why not.

In a case like this though, I'd probably make a "proposal" in a less conventional way, somewhat akin to what myself and my husband did: Talk about it. Talk about your compatibility, the way you see yourselves together in the future, and make sure you're on the same page. My husband and I didn't have some "surprise" proposal... we talked about marriage. A lot. And when we were ready, we decided it was time to get engaged because we were simply ready to plan the wedding. That was about 6 months in (the engagement) and another 6 months to plan the wedding. We've been together for 5 years in total, 4 of them married, very happy just for the record

These are just my personal thoughts.

 

[JaneFW]

Isn't an engagement a promise to marry? That's what I always understood. You date - you decide to marry - you propose (usually with a ring, where I come from anyway) - and you are then "engaged to marry". Somewhere back in the 17th century it was a binding, legal contract, and either party could be sued for breaking the engagement.

Sorry if my questions seem naive, but I'm from New Zealand.

You don't have TV in New Zealand? Just kidding. Lucky, lucky you. I would love to visit NZ one day.

 

[LinkH]

What exactly are the differences between a "dating" relationship and an "engagement" ?

Dating is getting to know someone in whom you show a romantic interest. In certain western cultures, 'engaged' happens typically after the man, sometimes on one knee, asks the woman to marry him and she says yes. That's usually the way it is in the US.

I did the down-on-one-knee proposal thing to the woman who is now my wife in Indonesia. Over there, you weren't considered engaged until you got approval from her family, so we weren't considered engaged after that. It used to be that way in English cultures, I assume, where a suitor would get the father's permission in all those old Shakespearean plays.

What sort of discussion and activities belong in an engagement that don't belong in dating? It seems to me that "dating" is a term used both for one-on-one get-to-know-you activities, and also for more romantic purposes.

I've heard 'date' used in a non-romantic sense, but not 'dating.' Still, if a man asks a woman to do something, and says, "It's a date then" that seems to indicate to me, he may want her to think that it's a 'date'.

If you already have a female friend that you want, do you date, or can you just skip all that and propose and then get engaged? (Assuming she says yes).

Sure, I guess you can. If you are close enough friends, then that may make sense. But if a man is going to do that, he should probably make sure she likes him a romantic way first. If she sees him as 'just friends' for years, and he proposes, she might not be ready to say 'yes' at the proposal. It may make sense to have a conversation clarifying where the relationship is going, to express his feelings for her, and see if she reciprocates, or to ask could you see the two of us together in a relationship that is more than friendship, first. If he just pulls out a ring out of the blue and proposes to a friend, and she says, 'no', that might be an awkward moment to work through in the friendship. It might be easier if they discuss it, decide they will try for being more than friends, and then somewhere down the line he proposes.

My brother skipped over dating with his wife. They both believed the Lord had directed them to get married, so they did. I was overseas, so I missed the wedding.

Sorry if my questions seem naive, but I'm from New Zealand.

Do Kiwis not have dating?

 

[SiyoNqoba]

Dude, I'm confused about the New Zealand statement, and I'm from New Zealand! Trust me... we do have dating and TV and all those normal things

The engagement period is what happens after the proposal. It's when you decide that you are going to get married (not simply that you want to), and you start planning the wedding.

 

[JaneFW]

Dude, I'm confused about the New Zealand statement, and I'm from New Zealand! Trust me... we do have dating and TV and all those normal things

I'm relieved to hear it. I mean, I know it's only recently that people outnumbered sheep in NZ, but all the same ....

 

[vortigen84]

Dude, I'm confused about the New Zealand statement, and I'm from New Zealand! Trust me... we do have dating and TV and all those normal things

I was half-joking. (I'm also from Masterton. Where are you?)

I dunno, I just tend to think of "dating" as more an American import than a Kiwi thing. It seems to me a loaded term meaning you want to get to know someone for a specifically romantic purpose. None of my friends or family ever "dated", they just hung out and then decided to make out and then get around to marrying. Same thing?

The engagement period is what happens after the proposal. It's when you decide that you are going to get married (not simply that you want to), and you start planning the wedding.

OK.

Just seems weird to me. Probably because everyone assumes that if I ask a girl to hang out with me, it's because I want to be her partner / "boyfriend" (stupid term for an adult man, btw). Sometimes I just want someone to hang out with. So I'm thinking: if I want to "date", it's because I want her, in which case why don't I just propose marriage and then we call our engagement period "dating" and discuss marriage-oriented stuff in there? That's what I thought the idea of an engagement was, to discuss pre-marriage issues and formally declare your interest in the other, if it doesn't work out you call the engagement off. It's all quite confusing because virtually everyone in our culture simply fornicates nowdays and just marries later if they feel like it. There doesn't seem to be much of an organized social institution for this now, churches rarely address the topic, mum and dad don't really care what you're doing with your female friend so long as you use protection like you were taught at school, etc. I don't think we're a very organized people when it comes to sex & relationships. That might just be my impressions from family and friends though; did your parents raise you with definite ideas on how this is all supposed to work? My parents never spoke to me about any of this stuff, they just assume you figure it out yourself. In their case, they just did the friend / hook up / get married thing that is the norm, they claim they never "dated."

 

[vortigen84]

Sure, I guess you can. If you are close enough friends, then that may make sense. But if a man is going to do that, he should probably make sure she likes him a romantic way first. If she sees him as 'just friends' for years, and he proposes, she might not be ready to say 'yes' at the proposal. It may make sense to have a conversation clarifying where the relationship is going, to express his feelings for her, and see if she reciprocates, or to ask could you see the two of us together in a relationship that is more than friendship, first. If he just pulls out a ring out of the blue and proposes to a friend, and she says, 'no', that might be an awkward moment to work through in the friendship. It might be easier if they discuss it, decide they will try for being more than friends, and then somewhere down the line he proposes.

This is how I would propose to a female friend that I knew I wanted:

Guy: "Hey *name*, I really like you and your friendship has been nothing short of a blessing in my life. I'd love to have you as my wife. Are you interested in marrying me?" (Or something to this effect.)

Friend then has option of saying Yes, No, or Let Me Think About That.

If yes: we can then go through an engagement period to discuss stuff applicable to marriage, enrol in a pre-marriage counselling program, etc. If we change our mind, we call it off. This is what to my mind gets called "dating", and I don't know why it doesn't happen in an engagement context. To my mind, if you want romance, then you want a wife. If you want romance without necessarily a wife, then I think you are being a player because I consider that closely related to foreplay, which I consider sex. Do you think I'm being prudish?

If no: then we can still be friends, though obviously not as close and it may take a while for me to work through the rejection, but it will be all good in the end.

If maybe later: then she can have time to think it over before she thinks she may want in. In which case, we remain just friend until she gets back to me about it. If that takes ages, I'll propose again by which time she should know. If she still doesn't know, I'll let her know I will consider looking elsewhere for a wife.

Do Kiwis not have dating?

I haven't really encountered it among my family and friends. We just have friendships, then "I like you mate", then hook up, then move in, then maybe marriage. At least that's what I've seen, it's not so formal like the American concept of "dating" seems to be.

That said, I don't get out much.

 

[SiyoNqoba]

(I'm also from Masterton. Where are you?)

I'm from Matamata

I guess the easiest way to help you understand it, because you're right, we don't have "dating" as a formal thing here, is that the difference between dating and engagement is the difference between boyfriend/girlfriend and fiance.

I personally believe that you shouldn't date/go out with/whatever anyone that you wouldn't consider marrying. That should be the end goal with your girlfriend or boyfriend. The engagement period isn't for figuring out if you want to get married, you should have done that prior to proposing.

Some people do believe that the dating period is for "do we want to get married?" and the engagement is "yes we do, now lets get ready for marriage." I personally believe the engagement is "yes we do, now lets plan our wedding and get this thing on the road." My husband and I were both already ready to get married when we got engaged, and subsequently were only engaged for a few months.

 

[vortigen84]

I'm from Matamata

Do you guys still have the "Welcome To Hobbiton" sign?

I personally believe that you shouldn't date/go out with/whatever anyone that you wouldn't consider marrying. That should be the end goal with your girlfriend or boyfriend. The engagement period isn't for figuring out if you want to get married, you should have done that prior to proposing.

I don't know what the point of a "girlfriend" is, when you can just propose to a close female friend who is just a friend.

Some people do believe that the dating period is for "do we want to get married?" and the engagement is "yes we do, now lets get ready for marriage." I personally believe the engagement is "yes we do, now lets plan our wedding and get this thing on the road." My husband and I were both already ready to get married when we got engaged, and subsequently were only engaged for a few months.

OK.

Well I think a good marriage should ultimately be built on a good friendship.

So if I develop a good friendship first, I think I can then reasonably propose and not bother with "dating."

I don't like the concept of "dating" because it seems to me unnatural and artificial. Friendship seems more natural to me as it does not have strings attached, it is not under pressure of trying to engineer some kind of romance within a time period, etc. If I take a girl friend (not a "girlfriend") out to a gig and something to eat, I just want to enjoy being with her, not be under pressure of trying to hit it off.

 

[SiyoNqoba]

Do you guys still have the "Welcome To Hobbiton" sign?

Haha, yep! And Hobbiton and Gollum. Matamata has gotten a spruce up lately, thanks to the new movie being filmed.

For myself personally, I know that if my husband and I hadn't been in an exclusive relationship prior to him proposing, I would have thought that was a bit weird. I think there needed to be an indication that we were headed in that direction.

But to be honest, I think you should just do it the way you want to do it.

 

[vortigen84]

Haha, yep! And Hobbiton and Gollum. Matamata has gotten a spruce up lately, thanks to the new movie being filmed.

For myself personally, I know that if my husband and I hadn't been in an exclusive relationship prior to him proposing, I would have thought that was a bit weird. I think there needed to be an indication that we were headed in that direction.

But to be honest, I think you should just do it the way you want to do it.

Fair enough, thanks for the advice.