Whats right and whats wrong when it comes to wanting children.

[CounselorForChrist]

I am engaged but I have some questions. For starters my soon to be wife is from the phillipines and while she would like children, she understands my nervousness and would be happy just being with me.

Women have instincts and obviously want to have children, where as guys tend to feel the oppisite. Whos really right or wrong on this subject?

I feel like denying a woman children is akward since women by nature want children. But at the same time I believe a womans nature to have them can often cloud their judgement on if they really should. Like I said I am lucky with my fiance, but with past girls I was with they wanted children and didn't like that I did not want them.

I told them not only do I have horrbile genetics (its why I am disabled) but I also can't work, drive and live at home. Not to mention I can barley afford myself let alone a child. Am I being selfish or reasonable? And what about these woman then? I noticed 99.8% of all profiles through online christian dating sites wanted children. No ifs, ands or buts.

I tried telling some of them it doesn't say in the bible you have to have children. Although one woman claimed its the purpose of sex. I disagreed with that. Its part of the reason of sex. So anyways whats everyone feeling on this? Whos right? Whos wrong? Is there even a right or wrong? Or should people just be more willing to realize we can't have everything we want sometimes?

---edit---
I should note I LOVE children. I adore them! Where as really my fiance loves them to but they stress her sometimes. I told her adoption is always an option if worse came to worse. I'm open for it!

 

[Niffer]

There is no right or wrong.
It's right for her to desire children, and its right that you do not.
However, I do caution you to really talk about this with your fiancee..a lot of the time a woman may admit to wanting children but think that perhaps, they could have a marriage without them.
I tell you now, her desire for children will only get stronger, and its a big enough issue that it really could make your marriage miserable.
Also, sex isn't just for making children imho..so I wouldn't worry too much about that. It's a pretty extreme view.

Best of luck with your fiancée.

Peace,
-Niffer

 

[dorig59]

I agree with Niffer. There is no right or wrong here. The only thing is to have these issues ironed out completely before you get married. And actually not ALL women have the desire to procreate. A lot do, but I've known plenty who do not. Nothing wrong with that, its just a matter of personal preference.

 

[dorig59]

I want to comment on one other thing. You emphasize the fact that you love children. That's great but I don't think anyone should feel guilty or that its a negative thing to not particularly like kids.

This may sound odd coming from someone who has had, er, um, a bunch of kids. I like MY kids, but as a teenager I never wanted to babysit (I did a few times & the kids were always little monsters) & I never liked babies just because.

I did/do love my kids, my niece & nephew, and I liked my friends' kids once I got to know them. When my kids were growing up, my house was always open to their friends. (I figured I could keep an eye on them that way.)

But if you were to ask me if I like kids in general, I'd probably say "not particularly, no."

 

[Audiomechanic]

There is no right or wrong.
It's right for her to desire children, and its right that you do not.
However, I do caution you to really talk about this with your fiancee..a lot of the time a woman may admit to wanting children but think that perhaps, they could have a marriage without them.
I tell you now, her desire for children will only get stronger, and its a big enough issue that it really could make your marriage miserable.
Also, sex isn't just for making children imho..so I wouldn't worry too much about that. It's a pretty extreme view.

Best of luck with your fiancée.

Peace,
-Niffer

+1. Spot on.

Your argument for your genetics and not wanting to pass them on is a strong one. However, adoption is always an option in the future. You say you cannot afford children now and that's fine. But no one can predict what will happen in the future.

Bottom line is: you need to do some soul searching and find out if no kids is really really really the right decision for you. If so, than you and your fiance need to do some serious discussing and praying together. Be as transparent as you can possibly be and encourage her to do the same. Lay it all out on the table. All thoughts and feelings and hold nothing back. If you have hidden fears about having kids of your own, and don't voice them, and then end up havings kids, you will be miserable and stuck. On the other side, if your fiance has hidden fears or feelings about NOT having kids and does not voice them, then when you don't have kids, she will be miserable, and, in turn, will result in a miserable marriage (because if mama ain't happy, NOBODY'S happy! ).

 

[snoochface]

I know a lot more women than I realized who never felt that maternal urge. Most of my married, child-free friends are women. So we don't all feel that pull. On the other hand, I also know plenty of men who were so excited to start a family when they got married. So it can definitely go both ways.

How old is your fiance? In my experience, many women think they can live without children when they are first getting married, when they are young and just starting out. The excitement of new love, of starting a new life with a loving partner, encourages that starry-eyed, "We only need each other" mindset. When they get older, have been married for a while, are established in their careers, and are beginning to see the window of opportunity narrow, a lot of times they change their minds. So I think it's good you're open to adoption at some point, because sometimes things change, especially if she feels she wants kids already and is making a concession not to.

Being child free myself, beyond child bearing age, and missing the vital incubator at any rate, I'm very happy with my life as it is and obviously don't think there is anything wrong with remaining child free in a marriage. Sex is not just for procreation. To say that it is would mean that any couple who finds themselves infertile should stop having sex. "Go forth and multiply" was said to specific people at specific times when the world needed to be populated. It was never reiterated by Jesus, while every other commandment except honoring the sabbath was. I do not believe it is a mandate to everyone in the world, for all ages. Having kids is great, but it's not for everyone.

You have valid reasons to shy away from children, at least for now and possibly forever. My biggest encouragement to you would be to keep an open mind and adapt within whatever range of flexibility you feel is acceptable. Circumstances may change for one or both of you down the road. If they don't, be happy with the life you live together and be fulfilled in everything you choose to do with it

 

[CounselorForChrist]

Shes 26. Yeah I am trying to remain open to adoption but my whole life the few women that do accept my disability freak out when they see I don't want kids. To me its unfair of a woman to do that to a guy. Feels like blackmail. "If you want to marry, we will have kids!".

I know the counter to that would be to say its unfair for a man to say no kids. But theres a pretty big diffrence I think. Women have clocks that they can't seem to ignore, I'd say be annoyeed at God. I didn't give you that clock! Kidding obviously on that last part.

Way to many women I've known rush into a marriage wanting kids without thinking it through. They must learn to ignore that clock and look at the big picture. Can you afford one or more kids? Is your home made for kids? How much stress will it add? Questions like that.

For me its really hard because if I married and had a kid and lets say my wife is at work and I get so sick I have a seizure and my kid lets say ends up killing themselves on accident. I don't know what I'd do. It would be a bad time to say "I told you so!" obviosuly but...well yeah.

I'd say if a woman says we have to have kids I'd say show me the bible verse that says "If the man your with doens't want kids, you must not be with him! Kids are more important to have then being married!". Sounds a bit harsh but its hard sometimes being a guy who legitimatly is afraid to have kids for legit reasons.

I wonder if women have ever though about the fact they are punishing the someone whos disabled by not wanting to be wtih them over kids! >.< For now though I got my fiance, if she ever were to leave I'll just stay single. Its soul crushing to date anymore.

 

[Rebekka]

I don't believe in that clock or in women having instincts about having children that men don't. I'm a woman and I don't want children - not wanting children is in my nature, it's not just a rational but also very much an emotional decision of mine not to have any children. Stop thinking of your fiancée as "woman = someone who wants children" and start thinking of her as an individual who happens to want children, regardless of her gender. You're painting with too broad a brush now.

Before marriage you and your fiancée should agree on the kids issue; for most couples it is a dealbreaker and rightly so IMO.

 

[Nienna_Lady_of_Tears]

I am engaged but I have some questions. For starters my soon to be wife is from the phillipines and while she would like children, she understands my nervousness and would be happy just being with me.

Women have instincts and obviously want to have children, where as guys tend to feel the oppisite. Whos really right or wrong on this subject?

I feel like denying a woman children is akward since women by nature want children. But at the same time I believe a womans nature to have them can often cloud their judgement on if they really should. Like I said I am lucky with my fiance, but with past girls I was with they wanted children and didn't like that I did not want them.

I told them not only do I have horrbile genetics (its why I am disabled) but I also can't work, drive and live at home. Not to mention I can barley afford myself let alone a child. Am I being selfish or reasonable? And what about these woman then? I noticed 99.8% of all profiles through online christian dating sites wanted children. No ifs, ands or buts.

I tried telling some of them it doesn't say in the bible you have to have children. Although one woman claimed its the purpose of sex. I disagreed with that. Its part of the reason of sex. So anyways whats everyone feeling on this? Whos right? Whos wrong? Is there even a right or wrong? Or should people just be more willing to realize we can't have everything we want sometimes?

---edit---
I should note I LOVE children. I adore them! Where as really my fiance loves them to but they stress her sometimes. I told her adoption is always an option if worse came to worse. I'm open for it!

I hate to break it to you, but contrary to popular belief, adoption is NOT always an option. It depends greatly on your disabilities whether you would be able to adopt or not. My husband and I cannot have children, nor can we adopt, because no agency will allow us to adopt from them because of my husband's disabilities.

I don't know what your disabilities are, but if you are on an antidepressant drug for more than two years of your life, most adoption agencies disqualify you. My husband also has lupus and Tourette's syndrome. The lupus also disqualifies him although he has a normal quality of life and has not relapsed since he developed it nearly ten years ago, and he's not on medicines for it either.

You would have to look up various agencies and see if your disability would prevent adoption. Generally speaking however, if you see it on more than four agencies, many more will have the same requirements.


As far as your fiancee is concerned, you say she's from the Philippines? That is a heavily Catholic country, and not only that, but less progressive Catholics. I have no problem with Catholics, and that's not what this is about, but your icon says "Non-Denominational" and I'm willing to bet your fiancee is Catholic or was at least raised Catholic. In the less progressive Catholic circles, sex is ONLY for procreation. You don't want a baby? Don't have sex. Contraceptive use is sinful to them because every time you have sex you're supposed to be open to the chance of having a baby. That is probably not the only thing you might not be able to agree with. Tread carefully, ask questions on what she REALLY believes, go through premarital counseling if you possibly can (there are some excellent books you could go through together as you're in an LDR.) I know you don't want it to NOT work out but the gap in belief may be too wide.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

Yeah I thought about them denying adoption because of the things I have. If they do then theres not much I can do. If I feel like Gods giving me the ok to have children then I will trust in him and do it.

As for my fiances religion. I thought about that to when I first met her. One of my first questions is are you Catholic and she said no. That was a huge sigh of relief for me. She part of I believe its called Four Squares Church. Them border somewhere between pentecostal and evenagelical. I read the site about the church and pretty much all the views line up with mine.

My only fear was what she thought about he gifts because pentecostals have some strong views on those. Luckily her and her mother are more Evengelical then Pentecostal. We spent the first two weeks talking about religion and things like "Is sex for procreation or other?". So far everythings good between us and what we believe.

I only have two fears so far. One is she wants to work in Dubai because its pays more and she can come here easier from there then from her own country. Dubai is Islamist though, she needs to read the saftey guidelines on being there, especially as a woman whos christian.

Second I fear what she might think of America when it comes to chrsitianity. This is just a general statemetn but compared to what her family does, we christians in this coutry don't spend as much time talking about God like they do. They pray every morning, night and in between. The do devotions twice a day. They dedicate all of Sunday to Godly activities. And every other word out of their mouth is about God and praising him.

I obviously have no problem with that. If anything I am jealous and want to live there so I can focus more on God then the fast paced life of here. I just hope she doens't come here and becomes turned off by how diffrent christians can be here. Liek I told her though, I am not like that. Her and I can talk about God all day! I have no problem with that!

There is one concern though I recently thought of. Men. lol. Men seem to do anything to be with a Filipino woman because of their beauty. And because our country allows for anyone to believe what they want. I have a feeling men will try to get her to leave me just so they can use her. I've seen it happen with asian women that come here. But if she truly believes in God, then she will not let herself be tempted by their fake love for her.

 

[someguy14]

Give it to God, friend. Don't let it worry your heart either way. God loves all of us and desires the best for us, afterall. God bless.

 

[FishermanDoug]

My fiance and I came into our relationship with great communication and we both desire a life together without children even though she would lovingly take on the role as a mother. Its all about that communication, and coming to a relatively solid decision. And I say relatively because things can change. Just discuss things out. You both are entitled to the way you feel. It doesnt matter you denomination, which is why I refuse to be associated with denominations. It boils down to God, and you, and your relationship. Include God in your decision making, and you will feel much better about things.

 

[Diane_Windsor]

Shes 26. Yeah I am trying to remain open to adoption but my whole life the few women that do accept my disability freak out when they see I don't want kids. To me its unfair of a woman to do that to a guy. Feels like blackmail. "If you want to marry, we will have kids!".

Why do you feel that is "unfair"? If a woman really desires children then I don't see a problem with her not being interested in marrying a man who does not desire children and vice versa. Having children is a dealbreaker for most couples, and rightly so. I don't see how that outlook is remotely "unfair".

I know the counter to that would be to say its unfair for a man to say no kids. But theres a pretty big diffrence I think. Women have clocks that they can't seem to ignore, I'd say be annoyeed at God. I didn't give you that clock! Kidding obviously on that last part.

Actually, no it is not "unfair" for a man to say no to children and to select a life partner who also does not desire children. In general all adults have the right to determine their own fertility choices and it is nodoby's business but their own. I don't have the right to pass judgment on a person just because they don't desire children just as others don't have the right to judge me for desiring children.

Way to many women I've known rush into a marriage wanting kids without thinking it through. They must learn to ignore that clock and look at the big picture. Can you afford one or more kids? Is your home made for kids? How much stress will it add? Questions like that.

How do you know your married female friends haven't "thought it through"? More importantly, why are their fertility decisions any of your business to begin with? It is obvious that you do not understand the deep desire that many women have when it comes to having children, especially women like myself have struggled with infertility. Women cannot just "ignore the clock" as desiring children is deeply rooted in biology. Why do you think that the infertility industry makes millions per year? IMO, it is extremely selfish and unfair for a man to ask a woman to ignore the desires of her heart in order to marry him. It is also extremely selfish and unfair for a woman to have children with a man that does not desire children.

For me its really hard because if I married and had a kid and lets say my wife is at work and I get so sick I have a seizure and my kid lets say ends up killing themselves on accident. I don't know what I'd do. It would be a bad time to say "I told you so!" obviosuly but...well yeah.

Then don't marry a woman who desires children

I'd say if a woman says we have to have kids I'd say show me the bible verse that says "If the man your with doens't want kids, you must not be with him! Kids are more important to have then being married!". Sounds a bit harsh but its hard sometimes being a guy who legitimatly is afraid to have kids for legit reasons.

What's the problem? People have the right to their religious opinions and have the right to stay true to their conscience. If a woman doesn't believe in contraception then you probably should not marry her

I wonder if women have ever though about the fact they are punishing the someone whos disabled by not wanting to be wtih them over kids! >.< For now though I got my fiance, if she ever were to leave I'll just stay single. Its soul crushing to date anymore.

I fail to see your logic. How is a woman who desires to have children "punishing" a disabled person who does not desire to have children? It is a matter of personal preference and lifestyle choice, and as I said earlier it is extremely selfish for a person to ask another to ignore the desires of their heart and personal preferences.

 

[LinkH]

I am engaged but I have some questions. For starters my soon to be wife is from the phillipines and while she would like children, she understands my nervousness and would be happy just being with me.

Women have instincts and obviously want to have children, where as guys tend to feel the oppisite. Whos really right or wrong on this subject?

I feel like denying a woman children is akward since women by nature want children. But at the same time I believe a womans nature to have them can often cloud their judgement on if they really should. Like I said I am lucky with my fiance, but with past girls I was with they wanted children and didn't like that I did not want them.

I told them not only do I have horrbile genetics (its why I am disabled) but I also can't work, drive and live at home. Not to mention I can barley afford myself let alone a child. Am I being selfish or reasonable? And what about these woman then? I noticed 99.8% of all profiles through online christian dating sites wanted children. No ifs, ands or buts.

I tried telling some of them it doesn't say in the bible you have to have children. Although one woman claimed its the purpose of sex. I disagreed with that. Its part of the reason of sex. So anyways whats everyone feeling on this? Whos right? Whos wrong? Is there even a right or wrong? Or should people just be more willing to realize we can't have everything we want sometimes?

---edit---
I should note I LOVE children. I adore them! Where as really my fiance loves them to but they stress her sometimes. I told her adoption is always an option if worse came to worse. I'm open for it!

In an era when there was no really effective means of preventing conception, God gave the Israelites instructions that a man must provide his wife with 1) food 2) clothes and 3) sex. In the Old Testament, we see that it is God who opens and closes the womb.

Why did women have a right to sex? Well, sex is pleasurable. Sex with her husband prevents temptation. The third reason is sex can potentially produce children.

I believe a woman has a right to children in a marriage. Certainly, if she told you she wants kids, you shouldn't marry her unless you are willing to have kids.

As far as genetics go, if you aren't Filippino or Malay, your genes are probably quite different form hers. Sometimes bad genes plus very different genes can produce some pretty robust genes. Are any of your disabilities from a dominant gene?

 

[CounselorForChrist]

How is a woman who desires to have children "punishing" a disabled person who does not desire to have children?

Because women seem to think marraige is about having kids. Therefor if you have bad genes and don't want children, they punish you by saying they will look for someone else. Its not like in my case I chose to have bad genes. If a woman can't accept that then she is selfish. Same goes for women who doesn't want to be with a man who can't drive or can't work. How is that my fault? Love is suppose to look past those things.

It is a matter of personal preference and lifestyle choice, and as I said earlier it is extremely selfish for a person to ask another to ignore the desires of their heart and personal preferences

Well if thats the case men should be allowed to sleep around when married since most have that "desire". Sounds stupid doesn't it? Why do women even marry if that want children? Why not just go adopt some? Because really it seems like the only reason a woman gets married is so she can have kids. Then when the kids are born she ignores the husband. Alot of couples I've noticed get divorced after the kids hit 18 and leave home. This just tells me woman love kids more then the person that married them.

I wonder where this all fits in with being a submissive wife. What if a man changes his mind after marriage and says no children. Should the wife compain or accept what he says?

We all have things hardwired into our body. It doens't mean they should control our life. Men have a hard wired feeling of being horny all the time. But they (well at least I) still learn to control it. The same goes for a woman wanting kids.

 

[Chaplain David]

Chaplain Reminder:

Hi Everyone, the SOP for this forum requires that posters be married and also to not have children to participate. I think it would be good to follow the rules as we are supposed to. Please take any forum problems to MSC. They will help you there and can help clarify any questions you may have. God bless you.