What's a good book on Catholic vs. Orthodox?

Mirrsky · May 6, 2011

I'm looking for a good book from an Orthodox perspective discussing the debates between Catholicism and Orthodoxy, in particular, with a strong focus on the debate of papal supremacism.

Mind you, I am not a theological novice. I've studied religion for several years now, so I'm not interested in books like "Orthodoxy for Dummies".

Anyway, what book would you suggest?

Daughter of His · May 6, 2011

ProScribe · May 6, 2011

I got this reference book from my orthodox priest. Its really useful ~ Its called

Orthodoxy and Catholicism - What are the differences? by Fr. Theodore Pulcini.

SoulFoodEater · May 7, 2011

I know of a perfect book. Its a book written by a former Roman Catholic priest, who converted to Eastern Orthodoxy. The book is probably the strongest book ever written to prove the non-authenticity of the Papal Primacy.

This is about him: http://orthodoxwiki.org/Vladimir_%28Guett%C3%A9e%29 (this will interest you)

The name:

The papacy: its historic origin and primitive relations with the Eastern Churches

The book is loaded with quotes and references to the Church Fathers, and the man who wrote it was a "was a renowned French historian", so it is far from being "Orthodoxy for Dummies".

A great thing about this book is that you can read / download it for free off Googlebooks, all because it was written in the 1800's. Here is the link V V V

The papacy: its historic origin and ... - Google Books

You can get it on amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Papacy-Historic-Primitive-Relations-Churches/dp/1142261441

This is him,

Macarius · May 7, 2011

Whelton's Popes and Patriarchs is ok.

SoulFoodEater · May 7, 2011

Macarius said:
Whelton's Popes and Patriarchs is ok.

Macarius, have you ever heard of Vladimir Guettée? I ran across him when I was looking at this web page on OrthodoxWiki, Timeline of Orthodox Church and Roman Catholic relations - OrthodoxWiki

I scrolled down and came upon this,

1863 Abbé Vladimir Guettée, a French Roman Catholic priest who converted to the Orthodox Church, writes "The Papacy: Its Historic Origin and Primitve Relations with the Eastern Churches", a strong criticism of the Papacy.

Then I found his book on GoogleBooks. I only wonder why its not more popular, and why it hasn't been published by a modern Orthodox publisher.

MrJim · May 7, 2011

ProScribe said:
I got this reference book from my orthodox priest. Its really useful ~ Its called

Orthodoxy and Catholicism - What are the differences? by Fr. Theodore Pulcini.

He's our local priest~he used to be Catholic.

gzt · May 7, 2011

Do you want a polemic/popular book or a scholarly/accurate book?

One good option for scholarly/accurate will be the second volume of Jaroslav Pelikan's church history series, which is devoted to the Eastern Church, but in the end goes over the historical developments surrounding hte great schism. It doesn't, of course, deal with the later developments, so you won't see anything about papal infallibility (only extremely partisan Catholics believe that the medieval church taught that)...

ArmyMatt · May 7, 2011

there is a podcast that will become a book called Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy by Fr Andrew Stephen Damick, and there is a section on Orthodox position on many Roman claims. the podcast can be found on Ancient Faith Radio.

Ignatius21 · May 11, 2011

Amazon.com: His Broken Body (9780615183619): Laurent Cleenewerck: Books

I just read this one recently. It was easy to follow and genuinely addressed the issues that lie at the root of some of the ongoing disagreements.

His description of "Eucharistic Ecclesiology" was very interesting, and it helped me to see why (viewed from outside) most Protestants and Catholics (especially Catholics) come away thinking there's no real organization or unity. Viewed from the EO point of view (which is here argued as the earliest view of the Fathers, Ignatius being a case in point) however, one can see that Orthodoxy is quite united despite how it may look to the Western mind trained to view everything as an "org chart."

It's easy enough for a layman to read but a novice would probably get lost in some of the discussion, so on the whole it's a good place to be.

Ignatius21 · May 11, 2011

ArmyMatt said:
there is a podcast that will become a book called Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy by Fr Andrew Stephen Damick, and there is a section on Orthodox position on many Roman claims. the podcast can be found on Ancient Faith Radio.

That series was great! A book, you say. May it sell many copies.

Mary of Bethany · May 11, 2011

wturri78 said:
That series was great! A book, you say. May it sell many copies.

It's available now at Conciliar Press - Home page.

Mary

Ignatius21 · May 12, 2011

Mary of Bethany said:
It's available now at Conciliar Press - Home page.

Mary

Wow, the publication date is...today. I wonder if the paper is still warm?

Not on Kindle!? The horror! Paper is SO 2009.

thegospelisgoodnews · May 12, 2011

Seems so logical yet nobody mentioned it.....how about "The Bible" It has all the truth you will need

Ignatius21 · May 12, 2011

thegospelisoffensive said:
Seems so logical yet nobody mentioned it.....how about "The Bible" It has all the truth you will need

And, you can read it on Kindle! It's much lighter that way.

I can't believe I didn't think of this. I mean, the OP wanted books that document the history of the Christian church during the 2,000 years after the Bible was written. Obviously one would turn to the Scripture that prophesies "Yea, verily, in 1100 years, East and West shall splitteth asunder."

Woah, did anyone else know there were a bunch of goofy "onionhead" smiley faces hidden in the "more" link?

thegospelisgoodnews · May 12, 2011

wturri78 said:
And, you can read it on Kindle! It's much lighter that way.

I can't believe I didn't think of this. I mean, the OP wanted books that document the history of the Christian church during the 2,000 years after the Bible was written. Obviously one would turn to the Scripture that prophesies "Yea, verily, in 1100 years, East and West shall splitteth asunder."

Woah, did anyone else know there were a bunch of goofy "onionhead" smiley faces hidden in the "more" link?

Isn't it true that each side believes they are the true church and the other is in error.......what if the bible showed that both sides have been in error, what should be done then?

Coralie · May 12, 2011

Macarius · May 12, 2011

thegospelisoffensive said:
Seems so logical yet nobody mentioned it.....how about "The Bible" It has all the truth you will need

Yet it says that the Church is the pillar and ground of the Truth, and that we should be wary of private interpretation, and that the Church will never die...

So I agree! We SHOULD start with the Bible - but that just leaves us with three churches that can, without break, trace themselves back in an undying lineage to the Apostolic community:
-Orthodox
-Roman Catholic
-Non-Chalcedonian

So the OP question was, "Are there any books describing why to be Orthodox rather than Catholic (or exploring some of the reasons that are forwarded in that debate)?"

And I would say that if the Bible has "all" the Truth you'll need, then Christ should not have sent out Apostles as teachers - nor should Protestants have ministers delivering sermons, or Bible commentaries, or seminaries. You should just hand people a Bible and say nary another word - because that's all the truth we need.

Heck - even your statement, quoted above, is out of line. Why aren't you JUST quoting Bible verses if its all the truth we need?

Because functionally - really - protestants and orthodox and catholics all recognize that we need Scripture AND something-else. At least RCC and EO are up front about it.

Macarius · May 12, 2011

thegospelisoffensive said:
Isn't it true that each side believes they are the true church and the other is in error.......what if the bible showed that both sides have been in error, what should be done then?

It doesn't, so that's a non-issue (like asking "What if the color orange were suddenly to be the color purple??")

But if it DID then you'd have to cease to be Christian, for that would do two things:
1) Undermine the process by which the texts of Scripture were selected (the very books you want to use to critique us)

2) Prove that the Church died. This would invalidate the prophetic declaration of Christ that it would NOT die, and thus invalidate Christ as the Truth.

thegospelisgoodnews · May 12, 2011

Macarius said:
Yet it says that the Church is the pillar and ground of the Truth, and that we should be wary of private interpretation, and that the Church will never die...

So I agree! We SHOULD start with the Bible - but that just leaves us with three churches that can, without break, trace themselves back in an undying lineage to the Apostolic community:
-Orthodox
-Roman Catholic
-Non-Chalcedonian

So the OP question was, "Are there any books describing why to be Orthodox rather than Catholic (or exploring some of the reasons that are forwarded in that debate)?"

And I would say that if the Bible has "all" the Truth you'll need, then Christ should not have sent out Apostles as teachers - nor should Protestants have ministers delivering sermons, or Bible commentaries, or seminaries. You should just hand people a Bible and say nary another word - because that's all the truth we need.

Heck - even your statement, quoted above, is out of line. Why aren't you JUST quoting Bible verses if its all the truth we need?

Because functionally - really - protestants and orthodox and catholics all recognize that we need Scripture AND something-else. At least RCC and EO are up front about it.

Please don't get upset, I'm not anyone with ties to any church affiliation, I just have one question what got the thief on the cross a ticket into paradise......he neither read the bible or listened to anyone preach a sermon from any Apostle or those in succession, He was neither baptized or made conframation. He never took mass or ate at the Lords supper. He is one of the few that we can certianly say without a doubt made it to heaven. He may have even have been the first believer to enter into heaven. So my point is why are all these different things people argue about relevant when a dirty thief, who has no church record, baptism record, works record allowed to enter paradise when all he had in his favor was faith that Jesus was and is the Son of God

What's a good book on Catholic vs. Orthodox?

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