What would you say?

[Texas Lynn]

Dear TexasLynn,
Well Stumpjumper asked the question of ‘your’ children, you speak for your own.

I see where this is going. The problem so many on the far right have with this issue is it's a symptom of a larger problem, impairment to reality.

actually as I have given scriptures and reasoning as to it and you haven’t hopefully anyone reading this will see that is just your opinion which lacks any understanding of Christianity.

I'll put mine up against yours any day. All you've done is parrot the party line; no insight has been expressed, only the willingness to think as you are told to think. Demanding political correctness is a common aspect of many Christian factions, but it is not a requirement for affiliation with Christianity. No one, Christian or otherwise, can steal Jesus from another. This includes those who seek to exclude LGBT Christians from the Body of Christ.

Nor is the word of God and it was the word of God to which I referred, not political correctness.

As you see it, which is political correctness. Thank you.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

If we're on the topic of "Which is the ickiest and worstest sin", we shouldn't lighten up, but be more harsh on all unrepentant sin. Recognizing the equality of sins doesn't make it any better. They all still KILL you. And cease all this foolishness in this threads. Sin is supposed to have no power on us, stop trying to chain us to it. We're free of it, slaves to righteousness! Saved by God!

 

[david_x]

The passage you are using to show that none of us have any differentiation in Christ Jesus is being used incorrectly. I don't, all of a sudden, stop being a 33 year old heterosexual male, Lutheran, husband, father, free, American citizen because I am a Christian.

You should.

You are not "Lutheran" you become part of The Church a family composed of many donominations.

You are not a father you are a son.

You are not free, Christ has purchased you and you become his slave. (by choice)

You are not an American anymore. Your allegience belongs only to Christ.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Texas Lynn,

I see where this is going. The problem so many on the far right have with this issue is it's a symptom of a larger problem, impairment to reality.

Again that’s just your personal opinion which I would day is a failure to recognise reality, particularly a failure to acknowledge what the Bible says. The question was asked ‘your ‘ children, not children in general. There is no far right and far left in Christ.

I'll put mine up against yours any day.

Ok then please do so, show me some scripture that countenances same-sex unions.

No one, Christian or otherwise, can steal Jesus from another.

you see I would disagree with this statement. I am not suggesting it applies to anyone, I am just saying it doesn’t ring true. Jesus isn’t a possession of anyone, some belong to Him yes.

As you see it, which is political correctness. Thank you.

On the contrary, the Bible is the word of God, are you trying to deny it and say the Bible isn’t the word of God but merely political correctness?

 

[Phinehas2]

Actually this is one of the fundamentals Christian young people should know so they don't get seduced by the lies.
This is a common proposition I have heard
My idea is based on the concept that God is loving and not tyrannical for if homosexual relationships are a sin that is what he would be.

You see God is love.
1 John 4:7 "Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son[b] into the world that we might live through him. 10This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for[c] our sins. 11Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

You see the love of God is in Christ Jesus. Romans 8
"For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

So if homosexual relationships are sinful, thats the love of God because Jesus Christ is an atoning sacrifice for that sin.

 

[HaloHope]

Actually this is one of the fundamentals Christian young people should know so they don't get seduced by the lies.
This is a common proposition I have heard
My idea is based on the concept that God is loving and not tyrannical for if homosexual relationships are a sin that is what he would be.

You see God is love.
1 John 4:7 "Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son[b] into the world that we might live through him. 10This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for[c] our sins. 11Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

You see the love of God is in Christ Jesus. Romans 8
"For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

So if homosexual relationships are sinful, thats the love of God because Jesus Christ is an atoning sacrifice for that sin.

Seduced by the lies? Please! Can't get more ridiculous than claiming that.

Of course Jesus died for the sins of everyone and loves everyone of his children.

But the fact remains, if homosexuality is a sin God would be an irrational and cruel God. To create someone who has the deal "be celibate and alone, or go to hell if you act on your desire to pursue a relationship with someone you love" is pure evil. I hear people say "hetrosexuals have their own cross to bare" and all that rubbish, OF COURSE THEY DO but hetrosexuals do get to be in commited long term relationships with the person they love if homosexuality is a sin homosexuals are completely denied that (of course theres the free will argument, but when your faced with crippling lonliness or eternal death, both are pretty unpleasent and hopeless things to face up to). So in short as I have said before if homosexual relationships are indeed a sin God is cruel and tyrannical. Of course those who have experienced his presence know God is love, so he cant be cruel and tyrannical THEREFORE.. homosexuality isnt a sin.

End of rant.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Again that’s just your personal opinion which I would day is a failure to recognise reality, particularly a failure to acknowledge what the Bible says.

Not any more or less than your unsupported assertions which you repeatedly make here. Your interpretation of the Bible is just your opinion and nothing more and incapable of becoming anything else. Your assertion another's view is "just an opinion" while yours has an element of "truth" others' do not is the ultimate self-deception.

The question was asked ‘your ‘ children, not children in general.

Deal with it.

There is no far right and far left in Christ.

Exactly! Which is why you do not hear a liberal Christian calling a far-right extremist one "You are not a Christian". There is much diversity in Christ in all manners. There are gay Christians, homophobic Christians, Christians who don't bathe, Christians who hate meatloaf, Blonde Christians, and Armenian Christians.

Ok then please do so, show me some scripture that countenances same-sex unions.

Not being a fundamentalist that is asking me for an irrelevancy, for the umpteenth time. I cannot show you the repair manual for a Hewlett-Packard printer tucked in between 1st and 2nd Corinthians, either. It doesn't matter. Chances are you have on on a mixed cotton polyester shirt, or will on Sunday, which makes you an abomination according to Leviticus. To state otherwise while condemning LGBT Christians is the ultimate hypocricy.

are you trying to deny it and say the Bible isn’t the word of God but merely political correctness?

"Word of God" does not mean "literally true". attempts to claim some parts are to advance a political agenda is an attempt to impose political correctness.

 

[Texas Lynn]

if homosexuality is a sin God would be an irrational and cruel God.

No doubt, and as such unworthy to be worshipped. In addition, an incredibly stupid one, to exclude lovers while encouraging mindless conformity and groupthink.

If one believe in a God of Love one cannot simeultaneously spew the hatred against one's LGBT brothers and sisters one sees here.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Texas Lynn,

No doubt, and as such unworthy to be worshipped.

Well as that is the case in respect of same-sex unions anyone promoting then or living them out isnt wroshipping Him anyway,

In addition, an incredibly stupid one, to exclude lovers

must be a different love from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus.

If one believe in a God of Love one cannot simeultaneously spew the hatred against one's LGBT brothers and sisters one sees here.

But what god are you referring to? There is no mention of LGBT is God's creation according to the Biblical account.

 

[david_x]

No doubt, and as such unworthy to be worshipped. In addition, an incredibly stupid one, to exclude lovers while encouraging mindless conformity and groupthink.

Sorry, God does hold single people above "lovers." Marriage is a last resort for those unable to control themselves.

In adition the Church is told that people who do not turn from sinful lives are to be banished. (Which means we have no problem with non-christian/worldly homosexuals)

 

[Phinehas2]

David x is correct. This is a crucial issue. In John 3:16 the good news is through Christ we shall not perish but receive eternal life, many cannot recieve that news as good as they love their lives too much to accept God would let them perish.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Well as that is the case in respect of same-sex unions anyone promoting then or living them out isnt wroshipping Him anyway

Neither is posting on a message board, except when you love another in any form it is part of a higher love.

must be a different love from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus.

Jesus Christ's concern is love, not political correctness.

But what god are you referring to? There is no mention of LGBT is God's creation according to the Biblical account.

Asked and answered, Sir. Such irrelevancies have been addressed time and time again and your continued posting of same only shows your difficulty in debating the issues. There's no mention there either of keyboards but that doesn't keep you from typing inanities on one.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Sorry, God does hold single people above "lovers." Marriage is a last resort for those unable to control themselves.

There is no evidence whatsoever of this. Such a god woulkd be unspeakably evil, a cowardly martinet with no regard for us more than a disturbed child burning dolls in a sandbox, with us in the role of the dolls.

In adition the Church is told that people who do not turn from sinful lives are to be banished. (Which means we have no problem with non-christian/worldly homosexuals)

A church which does so does not honor Christ who stood with the outcasts and against the conformists and the fearful.

 

[Texas Lynn]

David x is correct. This is a crucial issue. In John 3:16 the good news is through Christ we shall not perish but receive eternal life, many cannot recieve that news as good as they love their lives too much to accept God would let them perish.

Run-on sentence?

There is no "good news" from an evil god which seeks to harm its children.

Some "love their lives" so much they post arrogance and hatred on internet message boards.

 

[david_x]

There is no evidence whatsoever of this. Such a god woulkd be unspeakably evil, a cowardly martinet with no regard for us more than a disturbed child burning dolls in a sandbox, with us in the role of the dolls.

Matthew 19:12
For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."

A church which does so does not honor Christ who stood with the outcasts and against the conformists and the fearful.

You misunderstand. Those people whom Christ spent time with were not of the Church.

1 Cor. 5:11
But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

 

[jamielindas]

.... you know... not to sound like a hippy... but
can't we just all love each other.
I suppose in this respect, I agree with Jesus.
Love each other.. take care of each other... support each other... this above all else...

 

[HaloHope]

Matthew 19:12
For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."



You misunderstand. Those people whom Christ spent time with were not of the Church.

1 Cor. 5:11
But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

If you believe that you best disassociate yourself from all debate here ASAP then. You know, wouldnt want to mix with us unclean corrupters and all that. Personally Ive always found that statement to be Paul directly contradicting Jesus's teaching, and as a rule it's Jesus whos example I'd follow, seeing as he is the son of God and all.

EDIT: Just to add it is of course possible that Pauls taken out of context here too "associate" is a fairly vague word.

Of course if you believe like me that sexual immorality dosent include homosexuality all is well anyway.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Matthew 19:12
For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."

Thanks for the reference. The entire passage is most interesting. the idea it is saying 'most people oughta be celibate' is an act of faulty logic at best.

Some fundamentalists throw out the wedding at Cana to attack LGBTs, and others offer diverse weapons like this one.

I'm wondering if there's further meaning to the term 'eunuchs' as used here in addition to it meaning castratos and the asexual. A friend once used it to mean a nerd. Some assume castratos cannot have sex; that'd be a mistake, they just cannot reproduce after castration.

You misunderstand. Those people whom Christ spent time with were not of the Church.

You may have me confused with someone else; i never said they were.

1 Cor. 5:11
But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

According to this most megachurch preachers and religious right leaders ought to have to eat alone, then.

If as it appears you chose that verse to wag your finger at LGBTs, surprise! It's wagging back at you as well.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Ive always found that statement to be Paul directly contradicting Jesus's teaching, and as a rule it's Jesus whos example I'd follow, seeing as he is the son of God and all.

EDIT: Just to add it is of course possible that Pauls taken out of context here too "associate" is a fairly vague word.

I used to think that too but after 3 years in an intense Bible study program I am convinced Paul would be appalled at how words attributed to him are used to justify hatred.

Of course if you believe like me that sexual immorality dosent include homosexuality all is well anyway.

Indeed. The two concepts are as apples and oranges.

 

[jamielindas]

Of course if you believe like me that sexual immorality dosent include homosexuality all is well anyway.

This makes me want to question the origins and development of people's morality.
Many would say that morality tends to focus on the reduction of suffering/pain and great the most happiness (vague word choice perhaps).

However, many people do not analyze there morals this way... or at all. The inherit their morals from an authority (parent, bible, society, etc) and don't always question them.

This is one of the biggest problems I have with biblical literalists. They have a strict moral code based on scripture, but it doesn't always hold up to objective analysis