What would you say?

Magnus Vile · Jan 31, 2006

LittleNipper said:
I will submit to you that Creationists are tring to understand the possibilities that will promote further study of the Bible. Sir, we have the original Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic copies which we may revisit. Human error in interpretation is a rather poor excuse for failure to research GOD's Word or appreciate it. Creationists should consider their opinions as secondary to anything the Bible says------IS THAT TRUE OF EVOLUTIONISTS AND THEIR THEORY? .

People who accept evolution, assuming God exists, accept God's handiwork over anything. Their own preconcieved ideas garnered from a book, not written until well after the events it supposedly documents, are secondary to God's own revalation through his creation.

Again, assuming God exists. Either God created everything and left the evidence where we could find it, or he deliberately planted misleading evidence to deceive us. Which is it?

Nathan Poe · Jan 31, 2006

LittleNipper said:
I will submit to you that Creationists are tring to understand the possibilities that will promote further study of the Bible.

At the cost of scrapping the study of anything else.

Sir, we have the original Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic copies which we may revisit. Human error in interpretation is a rather poor excuse for failure to research GOD's Word or appreciate it.

God's word as recorded by humans -- be they Hebrew, Greek, or Aramaic -- and still capable of error.

Creationists should consider their opinions as secondary to anything the Bible says------IS THAT TRUE OF EVOLUTIONISTS AND THEIR THEORY? .

Of course -- just substitute "The Bible" with "A careful, detailed, and impartial study of the natural world."

LittleNipper · Jan 31, 2006

AnEmpiricalAgnostic said:
You say this as if you know. The truth is that you dont even know why you believe things much less know the truth. You cant even tell me why you interpret the bible in some cases and adhere to a strict literal reading in others. How can I even begin to think you know the truth about things such as god.
Talk is cheap. If this is the case then why, oh why, have you not been able to tell me the precise reason you interpret the bible in some cases and take it literally in others? If you have no reason then your assertions are the textbook definition of arbitrary.
Reality.

Genesis is a revealed history. The Psalms are inspired poetry. The Proverbs are inspired generalities to live by. The Song of Solomon is passion for the soul. The books of
Ezekiel & Daniel are prophetic with hidden inspired meaning. Every book of the Bible points to the reason for the need of Salvation, the means of Salvation, and the SAVIOR. The LAW is the proof as it is IMPOSSIBLE to fully keep it----if one can keep any of it.... The book of Revelations is prophetic as it reveals the true nature of CHRIST JESUS... None of what I have said will either help or impress you, unless you accept CHRIST as your own and personal SAVIOR.

LittleNipper · Jan 31, 2006

Nathan Poe said:
At the cost of scrapping the study of anything else.
God's word as recorded by humans -- be they Hebrew, Greek, or Aramaic -- and still capable of error.
Of course -- just substitute "The Bible" with "A careful, detailed, and impartial study of the natural world."

The record through humans is ONLY capable of errors that GOD permits. GOD is LORD of the Bible and not human error. Creationists are keenly aware that the present world we may examine around us IS NOT THE WORLD AS GOD ORIGINALLY CREATED IT. This simple fact eludes the thinking of Uniformatarians and their Evolutionistic friends. Evolutionists are not impartial, they are trained.

AirPo · Jan 31, 2006

LittleNipper said:
The record through humans is ONLY capable of errors that GOD permits. GOD is LORD of the Bible and not human error. Creationists are keenly aware that the present world we may examine around us IS NOT THE WORLD AS GOD ORIGINALLY CREATED IT. This simple fact eludes the thinking of Uniformatarians and their Evolutionistic friends. Evolutionists are not impartial, they are trained.

Creationists aren't exactly impartial either.

AnEmpiricalAgnostic · Jan 31, 2006

LittleNipper said:
Genesis is a revealed history.

The first question you’ll have to answer is which genesis. Since there are two that do not coincide if taken literally then you immediately have a problem with your reasoning.

Oh, and how long did the flood literally last Nipper?

bible said:
Genesis 7:17 “And the flood was forty days upon the earth.” Genesis 7:24 “And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.” Genesis 8:3 “And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the one hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.”

Was it 40 or 150?!? What is a literalist to do?!?

When did the earth dry?

bible said:
Genesis 8:13 “In the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth.” Genesis 8:14 “And in the second month, on the seven and twentieth day of the month, was the earth dried.”

How many languages were there before the tower of babel was built?

bible said:
Genesis 10:5 “By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands, every one after his tongue.”
Genesis 10:20 “These are the sons of Ham, after their families, after their tongues.”
Genesis 10:31 “These are the sons of Shem, after their families, after their tongues.”
Genesis 11:1 “And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.”
Genesis 11:6-9 “And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language.... Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.... Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth:”

In 18:21 god says

bible said:
I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

I guess you must not believe god is all knowing or all powerful then according to this literal revealed truth.

bible said:
32:24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.

bible said:
32:25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
32:26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me
32:27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob
32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed

and so much for all powerful.

So please go on about how genesis is literal revealed historical truth and explain to all of us how you reconcile these literal contradictions while you’re at it.

Nathan Poe · Jan 31, 2006

LittleNipper said:
The record through humans is ONLY capable of errors that GOD permits.

And God allows all humans free will -- including the freedom to commit error.

GOD is LORD of the Bible and not human error.

A statement about as meaningful as proclaiming GOD as LORD of the Dance.

Creationists are keenly aware that the present world we may examine around us IS NOT THE WORLD AS GOD ORIGINALLY CREATED IT. This simple fact eludes the thinking of Uniformatarians and their Evolutionistic friends.

The "fact" is an preconceived notion based on Creationists interpreting mythology as literal history.

It is not elusive, it is disregarded as baseless fiction.

Evolutionists are not impartial, they are trained.

*BLAM*

Hey! That was my favorite Irony Meter!

LittleNipper · Jan 31, 2006

AirPo said:
Creationists aren't exactly impartial either.

You're right. But in their case, one would hope that it is the Holy Ghost who is controlling their investigations and research.

DailyBlessings · Jan 31, 2006

LittleNipper said:
You're right. But in their case, one would hope that it is the Holy Ghost who is controlling their investigations and research.

Yes, one would hope. But is it?

AirPo · Jan 31, 2006

LittleNipper said:
You're right. But in their case, one would hope that it is the Holy Ghost who is controlling their investigations and research.

Not if the Holy Ghost is leading them to a literal interpertation.

LittleNipper · Jan 31, 2006

AnEmpiricalAgnostic said:
The first question you’ll have to answer is which genesis. Since there are two that do not coincide if taken literally then you immediately have a problem with your reasoning.

Oh, and how long did the flood literally last Nipper?
Was it 40 or 150?!? What is a literalist to do?!?

When did the earth dry?

How many languages were there before the tower of babel was built?

In 18:21 god says
I guess you must not believe god is all knowing or all powerful then according to this literal revealed truth.

and so much for all powerful.

So please go on about how genesis is literal revealed historical truth and explain to all of us how you reconcile these literal contradictions while you’re at it.

There is one Genesis. Chapter one speaks in broad terms of the entire creation experience. In chapter two GOD narrows the the creation epic to discuss HIS special creation ---- MAN.

Again, you are attempting to take scripture out of its context. It rained 40 days and 40 nights and after the rain stopped the waters were abated in 150 days. Noah remained in the ark from the second month, the seventeenth day of that month (when Noah was 600 years old ) until the second month, on the twenty-seventh day (when Noah was 601 years old) and the earth was dried... The FLOOD reaches its peak in 40 days and slowly goes down over the next 150 days and then is muddy for a time before it is dry.

Before the tower of Babel, there was one human language that went back to Noah and his family. The earlier verses are speaking in FUTURE terms as to which sons the various nations were to develope from.

Actually, if you wish to accept it or not, CHRIST came to visit with Abraham and later on another occasion CHRIST fought with Jacob. The three "angels" come to Abraham. One stays and the two others go onto save Lot and his family. The reason for GOD coming down is obvious ----- HE wanted to speak with HIS chosen.

Nightson · Jan 31, 2006

LittleNipper said:
CHRIST fought with Jacob...

And lost? Seems weird for omnipotent Gods to lose wrestling matches.

LittleNipper · Jan 31, 2006

Nathan Poe said:
And God allows all humans free will -- including the freedom to commit error.

So, you believe that the prophetic message that CHRIST would be born to a virgin in the town of Bethlehem would be curcified in Jerusalem could have been thwarted and changed by man's free will? If the reality of the cross could not be prevented by the schemes of Satan and the stumblings of mankind, I see absolutely NO rational reason that any part of the Bible would be any more vulnerable to man's exercise of free will.....

Nightson · Jan 31, 2006

LittleNipper said:
curcified in Jerusalem could have been thwarted and changed by man's free will?

If Pilate had free will, he had the choice of pardoning Jesus.

LittleNipper · Jan 31, 2006

Nightson said:
And lost? Seems weird for omnipotent Gods to lose wrestling matches.

GOD was providing Jacob (who had spent much of his life running away) with an education direct from GOD. But you do not see this I suppose? GOD knows what happened, what will happen and how. HE does what HE does to provide object lessons for HIS chosen. Did GOD want to KILL Jacob? It would seem not (HE CERTAINLY COULD HAVE). GOD was making a marine out of Jacob. Jacob was always a mama's boy. Afraid of everything and always scheming. I see this. I just wonder why you do not...?

AnEmpiricalAgnostic · Jan 31, 2006

LittleNipper said:
Again, you are attempting to take scripture out of its context. It rained 40 days and 40 nights and after the rain stopped the waters were abated in 150 days. Noah remained in the ark from the second month, the seventeenth day of that month (when Noah was 600 years old ) until the second month, on the twenty-seventh day (when Noah was 601 years old) and the earth was dried... The FLOOD reaches its peak in 40 days and slowly goes down over the next 150 days and then is muddy for a time before it is dry.

Before the tower of Babel, there was one human language that went back to Noah and his family. The earlier verses are speaking in FUTURE terms as to which sons the various nations were to develope from.

But that’s not what the text LITERALLY says now is it? So you have taken what obviously can not be literally true and substituted new meaning to the words to make them work. You have INTERPRETED the text of the bible. The only problem is that you do not have a reason for where you draw the literal / interpreted rule.

Genesis 7:17 “And the flood was forty days upon the earth.”
Genesis 7:24 “And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.”

7:17 says the “FLOOD” was forty days upon the earth. It doesn’t say rain. It literally says FLOOD. 7:24 says “And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.” If you read this LITERALLY it is a contradiction. You may interpret it however you want but as soon as you say “in context” you are most assuredly interpreting the meaning at that point.

In addition to this, like you’ve done before, you choose to not defend the other obvious passages where the LITERAL meaning of the words makes no sense whatsoever. You are desperately clinging to an indefensible position with no reason for doing so. You interpret every part of the bible you read. You interpret some parts literally and some parts after further, more radical, interpretation. Furthermore, you do not have a sound reasoning as to when or why you apply your various interpretations.

The Theory of Evolution is already accepted as scientific fact as much as a spherical earth and a heliocentric solar system. The only difference is that you don’t understand the ToE and cling to a literal interpretation of a small part of an ancient text that you think contradicts it.

What is the real reason Nipper? It’s obvious at this point that there is no legitimate reason for you to cling to your literal interpretation of creation. If you interpret creation like you do with other parts of the bible is your family going to shun you? Do you think you will go to hell? What is the reason?

LittleNipper · Jan 31, 2006

Nightson said:
If Pilate had free will, he had the choice of pardoning Jesus.

He certainly washed his hands-----but GOD KNOWS what must be.

TheBigAl · Jan 31, 2006

LittleNipper said:
He certainly washed his hands-----but GOD KNOWS what must be.

And God knows it must be... Pilates decision.

LittleNipper · Jan 31, 2006

AnEmpiricalAgnostic said:
But thats not what the text LITERALLY says now is it? So you have taken what obviously can not be literally true and substituted new meaning to the words to make them work. You have INTERPRETED the text of the bible. The only problem is that you do not have a reason for where you draw the literal / interpreted rule.
Genesis 7:17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth.
Genesis 7:24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.
7:17 says the FLOOD was forty days upon the earth. It doesnt say rain. It literally says FLOOD. 7:24 says And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days. If you read this LITERALLY it is a contradiction. You may interpret it however you want but as soon as you say in context you are most assuredly interpreting the meaning at that point.
In addition to this, like youve done before, you choose to not defend the other obvious passages where the LITERAL meaning of the words makes no sense whatsoever. You are desperately clinging to an indefensible position with no reason for doing so. You interpret every part of the bible you read. You interpret some parts literally and some parts after further, more radical, interpretation. Furthermore, you do not have a sound reasoning as to when or why you apply your various interpretations.
The Theory of Evolution is already accepted as scientific fact as much as a spherical earth and a heliocentric solar system. The only difference is that you dont understand the ToE and cling to a literal interpretation of a small part of an ancient text that you think contradicts it.
What is the real reason Nipper? Its obvious at this point that there is no legitimate reason for you to cling to your literal interpretation of creation. If you interpret creation like you do with other parts of the bible is your family going to shun you? Do you think you will go to hell? What is the reason?

That is how the ENTIRE passage reads. Again, you cannot hang even literal interpretation on one independent portion of scripture. ALL of it is there to provide a COMPLETE picture. You are the desperate individual. You are afraid that if evolution is wrong ----- THERE MUST BE A GOD and you will have no excuse. Do you believe that a hell exists?

LittleNipper · Jan 31, 2006

TheBigAl said:
And God knows it must be... Pilates decision.

Just as it was Noah's decision to listen to GOD and build the ark.

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