What would you lose if Christianity were not true?

dzheremi · Oct 25, 2019

InterestedAtheist said:
I'm here for the interesting conversation. Since you clearly don't find the conversation interesting, I was wondering what you were doing here.

Pointing out that any argument for atheism that looks an awful lot like Evangelical Protestant 'getting saved' experiences is no more convincing to Christians who are not of that mindset already than those Evangelical experiences generally are to atheists.

Thank you for your answer. So you're saying that you would lose nothing? That's good to hear.

Well yeah, but the point is that this isn't a very well-formed question to begin with. It pretty much guarantees that the answer is going to be "Nothing" if you think about it for more than two seconds, unless the 'point' of Christianity is somehow disconnected from it being true, and its rewards found mainly in everything else you have connected to it (e.g., your sense of self, your familial or other social connections, etc).

2PhiloVoid · Oct 25, 2019

BigV said:
If this life is all there is, and you followed a Christian lifestyle, what would be your loss if this life is the only existence we have?

Just to elaborate, I know Christians who claim they would lose nothing, but I think it's a contradiction, because same Christians claim they have given ALL to Christ also, like the hymn says... "I surrender all.."

I would lose a lot, Big V. I would lose the potential for living forever, which was the first reason that I even decided to "check out" Christianity in the first place at age 17.

I would then lose my most important 'value' in having aesthetically experienced Jesus in my mind and heart as the most Beautiful entity I've ever encountered conceptually.

I would also lose being with my wife forever and with my son and with whoever else I've come to treasure as a fellow Christian. I would also lose the potential to not only meet Christ in person, but also the many folks who will be in eternity whom I've never yet met.

And if I could know-----in this life----that Christianity isn't true, then I'd lose myself to becoming fully enmeshed in all of those social and psychological dysfunctions that surely many, many people are now saturating themselves within in order to assuage their existential angst emanating from their lonely, unsuccessful lives. So, yeah, I'd lose a lot.

BNR32FAN · Oct 25, 2019

BigV said:
If this life is all there is, and you followed a Christian lifestyle, what would be your loss if this life is the only existence we have?

Just to elaborate, I know Christians who claim they would lose nothing, but I think it's a contradiction, because same Christians claim they have given ALL to Christ also, like the hymn says... "I surrender all.."

We would lose our chance to indulge in immortality. I’m fine with that.

Tinker Grey · Oct 25, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
We would lose our chance to indulge in immortality. I’m fine with that.

Ye Olde "Atheist just want to sin." Classic.

Yanno, I don't believe in cops ... now, I can speed!!!!

Try harder.

rockytopva · Oct 25, 2019

rockytopva said:
Loss? I believe If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2) And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma, the sun is the visible form of E/c2
Mental E/c2 - Our thinking can produce creativeness, light, and good things
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

The Natural E/c2 in the form of mass produces a gravity that attracts other objects
The Intellectual E/c2 produces a gravity that draws us to study
The Spiritual E/c2 also has a gravity that draws and makes religion attractive

There is no loss therefore in the properly lived life. And I promote such thinking at my website at rockytopva, which is currently over 2 million views!

Atheist.... Why are you here? I tell you why! Because a gravity drew you!

eleos1954 · Oct 25, 2019

BigV said:
If this life is all there is, and you followed a Christian lifestyle, what would be your loss if this life is the only existence we have?

Just to elaborate, I know Christians who claim they would lose nothing, but I think it's a contradiction, because same Christians claim they have given ALL to Christ also, like the hymn says... "I surrender all.."

There isn't a loss. IF not true ... living a Christian lifestyle promotes good principles to live by ... with the principle focus on love, charity, family and treating one another kindly ... and I hardly see that as a downside ... whether true or not .... wouldn't it be a better world IF everyone would strive to live by those basic values? IF not true ... believing there is hope for a better world than that we live in now is a lot more positive thinking than that of rotting in a grave ;o) Positive thinking is always a good thing.

The sad part .... are those who do not believe it IS true ... forfeiting eternal life.

So, a better question is .... if God does exist .... what do those who do not believe lose?

Eternity .... think about it.

BNR32FAN · Oct 25, 2019

Tinker Grey said:
Ye Olde "Atheist just want to sin." Classic.

Yanno, I don't believe in cops ... now, I can speed!!!!

Try harder.

I didn’t say anything about atheists.

drich0150 · Oct 25, 2019

BigV said:
If this life is all there is, and you followed a Christian lifestyle, what would be your loss if this life is the only existence we have?

Just to elaborate, I know Christians who claim they would lose nothing, but I think it's a contradiction, because same Christians claim they have given ALL to Christ also, like the hymn says... "I surrender all.."

So riddle me this: 100 X 0=?

If you surrender to nothing what have you lost?

If you surrender 100% to God He promises to give it back 10x what you put in!

I have lived my life this way.

I am formally educated enough to be a ditch digger or a orange picker, but God would miraculously give me the abilities of a 2 patent engineer, a factory owner where I build out my intellectual property and also a car dealership to sell my augmented cars and trucks.

Without God literally giving me these things, I would be digging ditches or laying out asphalt.

What did you sell your faith for? sleep around with a few girls/boys? smoke pot eat too much pizza? seriously what is their to gain? What if you can be happy in the service of others in the name of God?

2PhiloVoid · Oct 25, 2019

Tinker Grey said:
Ye Olde "Atheist just want to sin." Classic.

Yanno, I don't believe in cops ... now, I can speed!!!!

Try harder.

I actually have known personally two atheists who, while appropriating and prioritizing both Nietzsche and Marx into their overall philosophy of life, did this very thing, Tinker. They told me, "No Cop---No Stop!" Fortunately, you're not "one of those" atheists, so KUDOS to you!

BigV · Oct 25, 2019

Tinker Grey said:
Ye Olde "Atheist just want to sin." Classic.

Yanno, I don't believe in cops ... now, I can speed!!!!

Try harder.

Brother I think you may have misread. Immortality=/= Immorality

BigV · Oct 25, 2019

2PhiloVoid said:
I actually have known personally two atheists in who, while appropriating and prioritizing both Nietzsche and Marx into their overall philosophy of life, did this very thing, Tinker. They told me, "No Cop---No Stop!" Fortunately, you're not "one of those" atheists, so KUDOS to you!

Well, at least these guys did not commit to following the Bible. You have to give them that!

Bible's moral guide on marrying a woman that refuses your advances is below:

Deuteronomy 22:28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

2PhiloVoid · Oct 25, 2019

BigV said:
Well, at least these guys did not commit to following the Bible. You have to give them that!

Bible's moral guide on marrying a woman that refuses your advances is below:

Deuteronomy 22:28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

What does this have to do with being a Christian, and how does it relate overall with your OP question? I'm not seeing that it does. Now, you're just importing a red-herring into the primary focus of your thread. Forgive me, but I don't think that kind of 'side-swipe' really shows much integrity on your part, and even if you're an atheist, you can do better.

As for those two atheists, one of them soon after broke the law, and I'm guessing he's been Court Martialed for it. Who knows where he is now.

BigV · Oct 25, 2019

eleos1954 said:
The sad part .... are those who do not believe it IS true ... forfeiting eternal life.

It's like saying that if you do not believe in Santa, you are going to miss out on all of his presents.

Tinker Grey · Oct 25, 2019

BigV said:
Brother I think you may have misread. Immortality=/= Immorality

I assumed a typo. One doesn't "indulge" in immortality.

But in the context of answering the OP, I suppose you must be right.

BNR32FAN · Oct 25, 2019

BigV said:
Well, at least these guys did not commit to following the Bible. You have to give them that!

Bible's moral guide on marrying a woman that refuses your advances is below:

Deuteronomy 22:28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

In the early Jewish culture it was extremely difficult for a woman who was not a virgin to get married and women were not allowed to work. So putting such a man to death would result in the woman struggling her entire life to survive. This law was implemented in order to provide care for the girl who was violated.

Halbhh · Oct 25, 2019

BigV said:
If this life is all there is, and you followed a Christian lifestyle, what would be your loss if this life is the only existence we have?

Just to elaborate, I know Christians who claim they would lose nothing, but I think it's a contradiction, because same Christians claim they have given ALL to Christ also, like the hymn says... "I surrender all.."

The immediate gains here and now in this temporary life that non-believers can recognize as valuable which come from doing as Christ commanded his followers to do include prominently gaining a lot more love/enjoyment in your life and soon also less stress.

Originally when I as a non believer read things Christ said, I was thinking about personal gains, for here and now. I wanted the best life here and now.

I was going to add Christ to Emerson, Lao Tzu, Carl Rogers, and a host of other thinkers/philosophers I had read.

For personal gain -- to simply get the best life, here and now.

His way to live is a lot better than the other ways, many of which were quite good themselves.

2PhiloVoid · Oct 25, 2019

BigV said:
It's like saying that if you do not believe in Santa, you are going to miss out on all of his presents.

I'm not sure why you keep pressing this hypothetical. It's kind of lame and kind of tiresome. No, I take that back! It's trite and supremely tedious.

Besides, in relation to what you're dredging up here from the bottom of Lack Nihil, let's not kid ourselves here, BigV. If there's no Jesus, then not only do we get to be free from religious delusion, but it's...............Las Vegas, Nevada, here we COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOME, Baby!

Strangely enough, for me, it's this very kind of thing that, in addition to all that falls from the mouths of atheists, keeps providing me with a constant flow of 'evidence' that the Bible in one way or another speaks prophetic truth. So, you may want to 'chaw' on that for a while....................see the following:

666: Hermeneutics and Christian Apologetics

dzheremi · Oct 25, 2019

2PhiloVoid said:
If there's no Jesus, then not only do we get to be free from religious delusion, but it's...............Las Vegas, Nevada, here we COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOME, Baby!

What about Jesus not existing makes you want to lose all your money?

Halbhh · Oct 25, 2019

2PhiloVoid said:
I'm not sure why you keep pressing this hypothetical. It's kind of lame and kind of tiresome. No, I take that back! It's trite and supremely tedious.

Besides, in relation to what you're dredging up here from the bottom of Lack Nihil, let's not kid ourselves here, BigV. If there's no Jesus, then not only do we get to be free from religious delusion, but it's...............Las Vegas, Nevada, here we COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOME!

The "What if Christianity isn't real?" and "Do you believe in Santa?" are favorite talking points, and up pretty high on the list it appears in the last many years. We are up near the top in these 2, like maybe Favorite Talking Point/Question #6, as a follow up to Favorite Question Talking Point/Question #4.

Hey, at least here we are not down at like Favorite Talking Point #26, as happens in some threads, where it's answer one, and another gets presented instead, ad infinitum. (Of course that may happen anyway, lol)

It seems we are doomed to answer the same 20 or 30 questions over and over, and any good answer will merely make that question disappear temporarily, for a day or a few days. But if you get through all 30 (which could be done in just a few days on the internet I think), then you'll surely be able to get back to some old favs. Again. Sooner than you'd think.

BigV · Oct 25, 2019

2PhiloVoid said:
Besides, in relation to what you're dredging up here from the bottom of Lack Nihil, let's not kid ourselves here, BigV. If there's no Jesus, then not only do we get to be free from religious delusion, but it's...............Las Vegas, Nevada, here we COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOME, Baby!

I thought Solomon had a harem already? Most if not all "Saints" of the Old Testament had multiple women. So, is gambling something you are after? Gambling is not explicitly forbidden in the Bible. It's similar to drugs. Not explicitly forbidden but interpreted as forbidden.

What would you lose if Christianity were not true?

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