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What would option 3 look like

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Debi1967

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ma'am - I have left twice because of abuses and unChristian attitudes and behaviors by members of staff - returning with high hopes when reforms have taken place. NOW - all but ONE of those people are gone from staff. I know how hard it is to walk away - but it can be done.
This is not a job. This is not a home. This is not a church.


Not for some of us this has been a home of sorts and a Church of sorts and definitely a ministry....

I also join the ranks of those here on this website that converted here and then made this my home .... it is where I was edified and where others who were like minded taught me about my Faith.

I, too, am often laid up and disabled, therefore sometimes the only interaction I get with my fellow brethren is on this site and has been for a number of years now....

Not everyone is of the same opinion that you are Purifying Flame, please state it as your opinion not as though you represent all of us
 
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dignitized

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Nut for some of us this has been a home of sorts and a Church of sorts and definitely a ministry....
If CF has been those things to people, I pity them. :( Perhaps people should consider unplugging and taking a few steps out their front door - visiting a real church - interacting with and ministering to/with REAL people.
I also join the ranks of those here on this website that converted here and then made this my home .... it is where I was edified and where others who were like minded taught me about my Faith.
I am glad to know that this place has helped you, but this should not be church to anyone.
I, too, am often laid up and disabled, therefore sometimes the only interaction I get with my fellow brethren is on this site and has been for a number of years now....
I am sad to hear this. BUT, most churches have home ministries for those who are homebound. You should check into it.
Not everyone is of the same opinion that you are Purifying Flame, please state it as your opinion not as though you represent all of us
RR - I have never claimed to speak for more than just myself.
 
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ub4me

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Sorry I don't know the computer lingo.

But I don't see why CF can't remain CF
and still have an out reach.

members-christians only

but have a section where visitors can enter in discussions with Christians.
there those who feel equipped to interact, with ministry being it's purpose, can do so.
And those who don't just don't enter.


Is it really that complicated?
 
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+RubiesFire+

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I have to wonder - if this place has lost Christ as some people are saying in their signatures and their posts - why are they not shaking the dust from their feet and leaving?


I noticed you posted this after I posted a response to someone else.

I have read other's responses to this, and now I will respond myself.

I have spoken to many, many people and they feel the same way as I do. I will not leave because there are many things. My signature is my voice when I am away, and it clearly speaks in what I believe.

You do not know anyone's or my own situation of why we are still here. I will not shake the dust off my feet and walk away.

I feel as if my own Mission is not yet done here, even after all these months after my own departure. I will shake the dust off my sandals when the Lord tells me I am done.

I was always taught to fight for what I believe in, and I believe you do the same by what your own signature says.


God Bless. :groupray:



 
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intricatic

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If CF has been those things to people, I pity them. :( Perhaps people should consider unplugging and taking a few steps out their front door - visiting a real church - interacting with and ministering to/with REAL people.
AMEN! This is why I say ministering to atheists online is a waste of time, for the most part. Cudos for the brilliant post.
 
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frumanchu

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Things are more biblical now than they have ever been before.:)

Only in some limited respects. There are also many things now that are more UNbiblical than they ever have been before.
 
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Debi1967

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I am sad to hear this. BUT, most churches have home ministries for those who are homebound. You should check into it.
My priest does visit with me .... however I need more interaction than that don't you think?
 
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Angeldove97

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There are some who would be killed if they ever entered a church, there are some who are physically are unable to, there are those who have been pushed out of their church and have no where to fellowship at the moment, there are those who have the calling for online ministry... there are a million reasons why CF can be part church, part fellowship, and part ministry for a person.

If you can't realize this because of how your church and fellowshipping plays into your life... realize how blessed you are to have such a great church. Not all of us are that lucky.
 
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Grizzly

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What does option 3 look like? Well, it appears to be in direct contradiction of Erwin's vision on 7-7-2007

1. The first stage is the CULTURE change stage. This is going to start happening from TODAY but will be an ongoing process. This will involve:

a. Changing the site rules - simpler, less legalistic, and more open
b. Changing the way rules are developed or changed - wikify it! The rules process should be a member-initiated community-propelled, and consensus driven, not something that a minority can decide on.
c. Changing the way moderators are appointed - the members decide! There will be forum moderators, category moderators, and then super moderators. Members nominated, members vote, members appointed. Appointments are for a 12 months - at the end, can be renominated, or not. The power is with the people. And yes, if you are not a Christian, you can be on staff, if people vote for you to do so. The whole process will be open, transparent, and clear. What about current staff? They will all have to be renominated and voted in at some stage.
d. No more warnings. If God can forgive, so can we. Of course, consistent rule-breakers and trolls will still be banned, but hey, that's not going to be avoidable for any site. But not legitimate users.
e. No more restriction of forums for non-Christians - if a non-Christian can walk into a church, a non-Christian can walk and post in any forum here. Some forums may still have gender or age restrictions, but the whole side, as should be any Christian site, will now be totally [OPEN].
f. No more restriction of faith icons - who are we to tell you who you are or what you believe in? In fact, no other restrictions - if you want to call yourself married, go ahead. It is between you and God, not you and CF.
g. Related to the above, if you believe you are a Christian, you are. No more reliance on our own definition of what we think is a Christian. In the end, who are we to judge.
h. Transparent appeals of moderator actions in a much more simpler format - with member input allowed - in fact, the community has a say in all appeals. The way it should be. As the community has written the rules up in the end.
i. No more hidden moderator forums - in fact, no hidden forums at all (except trash forums). If we can read it, you can read it. What is there to hide? If it has to be private, it can be in a PM. This will mean more transparency from all people.

The above outlines the setup of the new rules. A lot of the above cannot happen overnight, and will require some work. But the aim is for culture change at CF.

Many people, including current staff, will not be happy with the above, and some will quit, leave or resign. I bear you no ill-will - you do what you think is right, I do what I think is right. Yes, some of the above changes are controversial, and in fact, radical. But it's time for a total new way of looking at CF. We want to unite all Christians. Not just some.

But hey, is anyone really suprised? Actually, yes, there were a few of us who actually believed this was the direction that Erwin wanted to take the site. And they poured alot of time and energy into trying to make that happen. But no more (at least from me). It has become obvious that more than half of this "vision" will never see the light of day. I don't know what happened on 7-7-2007 to cause Erwin to make this post. Maybe someone broke into Erwin's account and posted this as a joke? Who knows? But its obvious that these things will not materialize.

So, this is it for me. This bear is going back into his self-imposed CF exile. I hope the rest of you enjoy yourselves here. One last thing. CF is not turning out in a way that I can support - and that's ok. Not every place on the internet is made for everyone. But you won't see me trying to sabotage the reform effort. I won't be posting snarky comments in future threads as you guys continue your work on the New CF. No snide comments in my sig file, or snazzy put-downs for my avatar. I'll just be bowing out.

Cheers

Grizz.
 
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JGG

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I'm going to weigh in here:

(1) I like the non-Christian mods. To be absolutely honest, those of us who aren't Christian got trampled by very biased Christian mods, and while the transparency is great, it doesn't actually solve the problem (afterall, the mods knew it was going on, but wouldn't do anything about it). That being said, I don't see why we would have a non-Christian moderating over what were formerly the Christians-only sections. How would a Muslim moderate over a Methodist forum? However, it does make sense to have them in the non-Christian religion, Liberal Theology, and Discussion & Debate sections. That is to mean if a particular group has a heavy presence in a section, then that group should have someone to represent them.

(2) Participating in the Christians-only section I can take or leave, I never went in, and have no real reason to go in now. However, it would be great if mods actually moved certain threads to appropriate forums. For instance threads about how awful atheists, or Muslims are should be moved to an area where atheists, or muslims can speak for themselves. I often found threads denegrating non-Christians in the Christians-only forums.
 
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RedTulipMom

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Hullo :hug:

The thing is, it'll settle down because people will get bored with, or burnt out from, all the fighting. Have you seen how many reports are being created by wiki discussions? Look at your thread, for example. It got ridiculous and for some people became about I'M RIGHT YOU'RE WRONG DOESN'T EVEN MATTER IF WE'RE ON TOPIC I SAY THE SKY IS GREEN AND IF YOU DISAGREE YOU'RE REMOVING MY RIGHT TO SPEAK FREELY... It was nuts.

Not everyone has the stomach to stick around in threads that get so silly, or threads that are painful and flamey.

So the people who will ultmately get to decide are the ones who have stamina, or who were loud - either in voice, or numbers - enough to get their idea in place.

That isn't to say what's currently there should be scrapped, because people put a lot of work into it and that needs to be acknowledged, but continuing on in this vein would be crazy. None of us even know where we are. Staff don't know what's what in the ever-shifting world of wiki, so they're having to waste time finding out while more and more reports are coming in.

Some reports are going left unread because staff are so over-wrought and over-worked. Realistically, the board simply can't function like that.
yep..i see what your saying as well..id hate to see all the hard work in the wikis scrapped..but there was so much fighting..and the loudest person seems to win..or the last wiki editor.

Erwin..i think you either need to make the simpler, less legalistic rules you envisioned..or take part in the wiki rules process or something!!
 
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Stormy

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What does option 3 look like? Well, it appears to be in direct contradiction of Erwin's vision on 7-7-2007



But hey, is anyone really suprised? Actually, yes, there were a few of us who actually believed this was the direction that Erwin wanted to take the site. And they poured alot of time and energy into trying to make that happen. But no more (at least from me). It has become obvious that more than half of this "vision" will never see the light of day. I don't know what happened on 7-7-2007 to cause Erwin to make this post. Maybe someone broke into Erwin's account and posted this as a joke? Who knows? But its obvious that these things will not materialize.

So, this is it for me. This bear is going back into his self-imposed CF exile. I hope the rest of you enjoy yourselves here. One last thing. CF is not turning out in a way that I can support - and that's ok. Not every place on the internet is made for everyone. But you won't see me trying to sabotage the reform effort. I won't be posting snarky comments in future threads as you guys continue your work on the New CF. No snide comments in my sig file, or snazzy put-downs for my avatar. I'll just be bowing out.

Cheers

Grizz.

:hug:

Stick it out for a bit and see what actually materializes. That's what I am doing. I am tried of all the arguing and am just waiting. Perhaps there will be an answer that can bring us all together in agreement. Perhaps I am just wishful thinking (won't be the first time) But anyway ... Don't Go! I just might need you again. :) I like having you around.
 
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D'Ann

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RedTulipMom

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Erwin..
here is my option 3 vision..

*keep the staff forums and reports open..but dont allow debating in the reports.

*keep all the forums here open to non-christians except for maybe opening ONE christian only forum for newer christians/teens anyone that feels they might need a safe place to fall and ask for prayer and be open to other christians etc.

*continue to let the congregational forums make their own rules

*continue to let members vote for mods but find a way to not let socks in..like saying you have to have 200 posts minimum to vote or something similiar

*don't bring back warnings/infractions the way they were..but maybe have an infraction system only for very big infractions..not as heavy handed as it was

*let non-christians mod in friendship, support and debate forums IF they are voted in by the members! But not mod in congregational areas.

*keep Christian Forums as the name!

*let members pick their own faith icons, and change them theirselves.

*be open to all who call themselves Christian..but those christians that don't follow the nicene creed..use the name "unorthodox". So you can then have orthodox...and unorthodox congregations set up!

thats all i can think of for now!
 
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GreenMunchkin

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What does option 3 look like? Well, it appears to be in direct contradiction of Erwin's vision on 7-7-2007

But hey, is anyone really suprised? Actually, yes, there were a few of us who actually believed this was the direction that Erwin wanted to take the site. And they poured alot of time and energy into trying to make that happen. But no more (at least from me). It has become obvious that more than half of this "vision" will never see the light of day. I don't know what happened on 7-7-2007 to cause Erwin to make this post. Maybe someone broke into Erwin's account and posted this as a joke? Who knows? But its obvious that these things will not materialize.

So, this is it for me. This bear is going back into his self-imposed CF exile. I hope the rest of you enjoy yourselves here. One last thing. CF is not turning out in a way that I can support - and that's ok. Not every place on the internet is made for everyone. But you won't see me trying to sabotage the reform effort. I won't be posting snarky comments in future threads as you guys continue your work on the New CF. No snide comments in my sig file, or snazzy put-downs for my avatar. I'll just be bowing out.

Cheers

Grizz.
Don't go :( Lookit, the way you're feeling now is the way many of us felt on the 7th. We've all felt like crap, so we all understand now how the other "side" has felt, and now we should use that understanding to build something *together* where all of us can be happy here. If we take the time to work it out collectively, we can have the best of both.

Stay, ok? Things can only get better. And on a selfish note, I like seeing you around.
 
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Stormy

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drstevej

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Good question.

One possible solution that has been proposed already is to run 2 sites, one that is open, another that is Christians-only, based on the same membership data.

It's entirely possible. The previous version of CF is very similar, with 2 sections, one open and one close. The aim of the new system was to establish something like that but with members agreeing to do it themselves, but it hasn't worked out over the past month.

The ultimate aim would be to keep the good things of the recent changes such as moderator transparency, and see if we can formalise the wiki usage a bit more in a way that is acceptable (the wiki collaborative process is still the best process to get consensus for rules and guidelines).

There is no question that CF has 2 large groups of membership together, and to be honest, that is fantastic, because not many sites on the Internet are able to bring these 2 groups of people together into a place for discussion.

It is possible that Option 1 and Option 2 can be combined together into a middle ground of Option 3 since this is what the poll is really showing us (and I had hoped that the current CF setup would have been the Option 3, since it has elements of both, but apparently not). So the question is, if that's the answer (and I'm not saying it is at this stage), what would Option 3 look like?

It's a question that's does not have an easy answer.

Sell the site to someone who has the time and energy to give leadership and vision to the site. Wikis and Polls only stir strife and do not produce any consensus. We don't even have consensus on what consensus is... and hours are spent on the word "[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]."

Otherwise secure www.fingerinthewind.com and buy futures in popcorn and bandages.

drstevej
 
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