What would it take?

[jon1101]

What's obvious is that you don't appear to know what these terms mean when we use them to describe ourselves, instead preferring to ascribe to them meaning that makes your anecdote more emotionally powerful.

I think pudmuddle is correct if he's referring to C.S. Lewis. He was a staunch atheist (and I am not ignorant of the term) before is conversion to Christianity. Did you have someone else in mind or do you have reason to believe that Lewis was never really an atheist?

-jon

 

[Philosoft]

I think pudmuddle is correct if he's referring to C.S. Lewis. He was a staunch atheist (and I am not ignorant of the term) before is conversion to Christianity. Did you have someone else in mind or do you have reason to believe that Lewis was never really an atheist?

Actually, I have no idea what a "staunch" atheist is supposed to believe in contrast to an non-staunch atheist. Nor do I understand why "most disbelievers are actually agnostic."

 

[Philosoft]

I had a friend who would occasionally call himself an atheist, but most of the time agreed with me that he was an agnostic. A very intelligent, but nevertheless confused and lost individual.

Did it ever occur that he might be both? That atheism and agnostic are not different levels of disbelief, but different things entirely?

Uh, so what do you call yourself? A rose by any other name....

I am an atheist, but not necessarily an agnostic.

As for me, if you acknowledge that there might be a God, I'll call you agnostic, if you say, no way, I'll call you atheist. Let's keep things nice and tidy.

Problem is, things are rarely "nice and tidy." I'm pretty well convinced the Christian God is fiction, but I have no recourse against a deist god or some other god I may not have thought of. So, might there be a God? Yeah, just not yours.

 

[pudmuddle]

(Did it ever occur that he might be both? That atheism and agnostic are not different levels of disbelief, but different things entirely?)

Hmm...so you can be an atheist one day and an agnostic the next? Please do enlighten me.


(Problem is, things are rarely "nice and tidy." I'm pretty well convinced the Christian God is fiction, but I have no recourse against a deist god or some other god I may not have thought of. So, might there be a God? Yeah, just not yours. )

First of all he's not "my" God. I did not create Him. His is and always was, and whether you believe in Him or not, He will always be.

And yes, I was refering to Lewis. He was an atheist, so there is hope for you...

 

[jon1101]

Actually, I have no idea what a "staunch" atheist is supposed to believe in contrast to an non-staunch atheist. Nor do I understand why "most disbelievers are actually agnostic."

I suppose a staunch atheist would be a "firm and steadfast" atheist since staunch is defined as such. As far as most disbelievers being agnostic, I don't defend that claim and would love to see mudpuddle defend it.

-jon

 

[pudmuddle]

I suppose a staunch atheist would be a "firm and steadfast" atheist since staunch is defined as such. As far as most disbelievers being agnostic, I don't defend that claim and would love to see mudpuddle defend it.

-jon

According to my definition in a previous post, most nonbelievers are agnostic. According to the "other definition"( couldn't they make up their minds?) which seems to say that if you can't prove God you're agnostic, I guess most people would fit.