What would it take to disprove atheism?

[znr]

Do you believe mankind will advance to the point it can rationally explain God through scientific discovery? I have to wholeheardedly disagree. in fact the bible indicates how Christians are to help show the existence of God.

I've been reading this new book (The Second Coming: A Love Story by Scott Pinsker) that makes the opposite argument. Basically, it says that mankind is only a few generations removed from the hacksaw & leaches. Right? By science's own admission, about 93% of the entire universe is a total mystery (Dark Matter & Dark Energy). We don't even know what it is or how to define it!! So if we've only been examining the 7% of the "known" universe for a few generations, don't have a clue about 93% of it..... then wouldn't it be kinda silly to conclude that God cannot exist???

Just going by science's own data, it seems like -- at best -- a scientist's conclusion should be: Gosh, we need a lot more evidence before we make a conclusion!

 

[Feldon]

This is one of the instances where "I don't know" is a good and valid answer.

But I don't think it is relevant, because while our perception of reality is not reality itself, it is still a part of that reality.

You know what? I agree with almost everything you just said.

I believe reality is so much greater than we can imagine.... and despite all our modern advances, we're still neophytes.

 

[Feldon]

Do you believe mankind will advance to the point it can rationally explain God through scientific discovery? I have to wholeheardedly disagree. in fact the bible indicates how Christians are to help show the existence of God.

Will man ever be able to prove God with science? That's a real interesting question. It's possible, but it would take a very clever experiment, one that can be replicated with predictable results, in accordance to the scientific method. Wow. Would be the most important experiment of all time!

I read that one man tried to "prove" the existence of souls by weighing people as they died. Since souls were physical objects, he reasoned, when souls left the body, you should be able to quantify the loss in weight. That could've been proof.... of something.... if you could predict that every time someone died, they'd drop 4 pounds? Of course, this experiment could never be replicated....

In The Second Coming: A Love Story, there's a scene were "Jesus" (the premise in the book is that you're not sure which "Messiah" is God & which one is Satan) is asked to prove that God exists. He answers that he already has.... and the rest is up to us.

 

[bhsmte]

Most of the former atheists I've met think that way.... they're not suddenly buying Bibles or going to Church, but SOMETHING happened in their lives, and now they can no longer explicitly disavow the possibility of a Deity.

It's like a door that's a little cracked open....

I would believe there are very few atheists that have the door slammed completely shut, because very few claim it is 100% certain, there is not God. For me, I call myself atheist towards the Christian God and this is after being a Christian for 40 years. Why? because I acquired knowledge I did not possess before, specifically in regards to a thorough review of the NT from a scholarly and historical stand point. When I took that new knowledge and compared it to the realities of the real world, I could not reconcile the Christian story any longer. Not only could I not reconcile it, but I came to understand just how immoral the Christian belief is in some fashion with bad people allowed eternal life, as long as they find Jesus, while people who live good lives but don't believe are doomed. Not a moral and loving God in my book.

So, I am atheist towards the Christian God, because of what is stated above, but I would call myself agnostic towards a universal God, one that is not personal, does not answer prayers or impact life in the universe. That God, is much more likely to exist IMO.

 

[paul becke]

Non locality in quantum physics is the interface between spirit and matter.

 

[znr]

You may not like my reply, but here goes. First though, you have a great open mind, open and alert, and you seem to have a heart on fire with love, which is good. Your energy is admirable and I respect that very much.

Here's the thing, and I'm just contributing my opinion mind you, we may only have discovered a tiny bit of what the universe offers; "knowledge", but science does not prove the existence of God, not be because it cannot, but because it will not - and that seems to me to be by God's own will. If we, as beleivers, hope in science to help prove God, we've missed the boat. God has chosen his own tough ways to help show mankind that God exists: beleivers. It's a tough job, submitting to God, allowing oneself to be used as a vessel, be a light, but the bible does specifically say that this is how it's going to go down. As for knowledge and science, two worthy pursuits in and of themselves, they won't prove Gods existence; that is not their purpose.

Will man ever be able to prove God with science? That's a real interesting question. It's possible, but it would take a very clever experiment, one that can be replicated with predictable results, in accordance to the scientific method. Wow. Would be the most important experiment of all time!

I read that one man tried to "prove" the existence of souls by weighing people as they died. Since souls were physical objects, he reasoned, when souls left the body, you should be able to quantify the loss in weight. That could've been proof.... of something.... if you could predict that every time someone died, they'd drop 4 pounds? Of course, this experiment could never be replicated....

In The Second Coming: A Love Story, there's a scene were "Jesus" (the premise in the book is that you're not sure which "Messiah" is God & which one is Satan) is asked to prove that God exists. He answers that he already has.... and the rest is up to us.

 

[quatona]

Question for the group: If you are an atheist, what would it take to convince you that there truly is "something" rather than "nothing"?

I already believe there is something.

Or is it possible? (I have a feeling that some loathe the concept of God so much, they could watch the seas part & they would STILL find a reason to doubt.....)

Well, your feelings are your feelings. It´s pointless to argue with someone´s feelings.

 

[quatona]

What would it take to disprove atheism?

Atheism exists, demonstrably. You can´t disprove it.

 

[Feldon]

You may not like my reply, but here goes. First though, you have a great open mind, open and alert, and you seem to have a heart on fire with love, which is good. Your energy is admirable and I respect that very much.

Here's the thing, and I'm just contributing my opinion mind you, we may only have discovered a tiny bit of what the universe offers; "knowledge", but science does not prove the existence of God, not be because it cannot, but because it will not - and that seems to me to be by God's own will. If we, as beleivers, hope in science to help prove God, we've missed the boat. God has chosen his own tough ways to help show mankind that God exists: beleivers. It's a tough job, submitting to God, allowing oneself to be used as a vessel, be a light, but the bible does specifically say that this is how it's going to go down. As for knowledge and science, two worthy pursuits in and of themselves, they won't prove Gods existence; that is not their purpose.

It's okay, I don't mind your response! And I recognize that you could be right and I could be wrong.

I just don't think God is hostile to science that way. Proving God by science, to me, would be no different than proving Him by love, or by music, or by the arts. Science is an incredibly valuable tool for understanding existence, but it's not the only tool.... and I feel horrible for ANYONE who makes it their only tool!

 

[BL2KTN]

So, I am atheist towards the Christian God, because of what is stated above, but I would call myself agnostic towards a universal God, one that is not personal, does not answer prayers or impact life in the universe. That God, is much more likely to exist IMO.

We should discuss deism sometime. That's what you're describing, and it's lonely being one of the only deists on the site. Heck, it's lonely being one of the only deists I know lol.

 

[Feldon]

Atheism exists, demonstrably. You can´t disprove it.

If atheism exists, demonstrably, then what is the demonstrable proof, please?

 

[quatona]

If atheism exists, demonstrably, then what is the demonstrable proof, please?

All those people who don´t believe there´s a God. Just like the existence of theism is proven by the fact that there are people who believe in God(s).

 

[bhsmte]

If atheism exists, demonstrably, then what is the demonstrable proof, please?

There are atheists, who don't believe in a God and they exist.

 

[Feldon]

All those people who don´t believe there´s a God. Just like the existence of theism is proven by the fact that there are people who believe in God(s).

If that's demonstrative evidence to you, then I think we're at an impasse. God bless.

 

[bhsmte]

If that's demonstrative evidence to you, then I think we're at an impasse. God bless.

???????????????????????????????

 

[GoldenBoy89]

If atheism exists, demonstrably, then what is the demonstrable proof, please?

Atheist is what you call someone who doesn't believe in God. So if you've ever heard someone say they don't believe in God, you have met an atheist and that should be all the evidence you need to accept that atheism does, in fact, exist.

Now, whether or not atheism is the ultimate truth to reality is a completely different story. You ask if atheism exists, what is the proof. Atheism exists because there are people who genuinely call themselves atheists and they seem to follow the criteria that qualifies them as such.

 

[Feldon]

There are atheists, who don't believe in a God and they exist.

Everyone acknowledges that the belief in atheism is real..... the question is if atheism itself is real.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

If that's demonstrative evidence to you, then I think we're at an impasse. God bless.

Are you asking if athe(ists) (the people who call themselves atheist) exist? Or are you asking if athe(ism) (the belief that deities don't exist) is true? Which is it? These are two entirely different questions and have two entirely different answers.

 

[bhsmte]

Everyone acknowledges that the belief in atheism is real..... the question is if atheism itself is real.

Maybe I am missing something.

If there are real people, who claim to be atheists (don't believe in a God), then atheism does indeed exist. This isn't that tough.

Now if you are asking whether atheism is correct, that is another question.

 

[quatona]

If that's demonstrative evidence to you, then I think we're at an impasse. God bless.

I have no idea what you find lacking about such evidence. Are you asking me to doubt the honesty of theists when they claim they believe in a God?