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What would happen to the creation/evolution debate...

Lazarus Long

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I wonder if you are open to a thought experiment?
 
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driewerf

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Earlier in this thread I posted an answer to Jonaitis who protested the depiction of creationists as anti science. .
What would happen to the creation/evolution debate...

This post from dad suits very fine the trend.
 
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driewerf

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How can you people carry on discussing with someone who's decided his ideological commitment will trump anything that reality does or could present?
Because of the lurkers. Dad may be a lost cause, many others read these threads, and a seed may start to germinate.
 
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driewerf

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For the first five centuries of the Church, all of the Fathers believed and proclaimed:

  • that less than 6,000 years had passed from the creation of the world to the birth of Jesus.
This is false. The '6000 years" came from bishop James Ussher in 1581.
 
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Speedwell

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The Fathers and Doctors of the Church unanimously agreed that Genesis 1-11 is an inerrant literal historical account of the beginning of the world and the human species as related by the prophet Moses under divine inspiration.
That is a false statement. I can think of several of the Fathers who had other opinions about it. Origen of Alexandra, for example:

"For who that has understanding will suppose that the first, and second, and third day, and the evening and the morning, existed without a sun, and moon, and stars? And that the first day was, as it were, also without a sky? And who is so foolish as to suppose that God, after the manner of a husbandman, planted a paradise in Eden, towards the east, and placed in it a tree of life, visible and palpable, so that one tasting of the fruit by the bodily teeth obtained life? And again, that one was a partaker of good and evil by masticating what was taken from the tree? And if God is said to walk in the paradise in the evening, and Adam to hide himself under a tree, I do not suppose that anyone doubts that these things figuratively indicate certain mysteries, the history having taken place in appearance, and not literally."

Even so, those of the Fathers who believed the Genesis stores to be historical accounts did not believe in literal inerrancy and its concomitant doctrines of perspicuity and self-interpretability. Those doctrines are definitely recent Protestant inventions.
 
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driewerf

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... if everyone was required to pass an introductory Biology (university-level Biology 101) course first?
We would be denied a good laugh.

In a very recent debate on Youtube between Kent Hovind and a Youtuber named Conspiracy Cat, Kent Hovind is asked to explain what a change in allele frequency means. From 1:49:50 on Kent Hovind answers. I made a transcript of his answer.
There is literally no sentence without serious error against very basic science. Kent Hovind has never read any textbook on genetics past chapter 1. Enjoy Kent Hovind's explanation:

Kent Hovind: “ The chromosomes found in all organisms, man has 46, different animals have different numbers of chromosomes are unbelievably complicated like a long twisted ladder. The rungs of the ladder would be the genes, these can have the alleles, the variant of a gene. These things can vary from person to person. So i have to do some refreshing but the twisted ladder, the long twisted chromosome ladder has the rungs across it – the genes. There can be frequency differences between different people. You may have some insertions like an ERV. Let’s do a whole debate about that at another time and I’ll go I don’t have slides ready for that right now but are you saying that because there are frequency changes, changes in the frequency of the alleles of the genes in the DNA that is proof that we all came from a rock? Is that what you’re trying to lead to? "

Oh, and during the whole debate Kent Hovind braggs that he knows a lot about science and that he has teached science for more than 15 years. He belittles Conspiracy Cat for "believing we all came from a rock" etc. And then produces the little gem above.
 
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Ophiolite

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Clearly no one ever gave him the advice, "When you are in a hole, the first thing to do is to stop digging."
 
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pitabread

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There is literally no sentence without serious error against very basic science. Kent Hovind has never read any textbook on genetics past chapter 1.

True and that was painful to read. However, his target audience is people who know even less science than he does. In that respect, whether he gets anything correct or not is irrelevant. All that matters is whether people think that he knows what he is talking about.

Charisma and confidence goes a long way in that regard.
 
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driewerf

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You are right of course, and that's what's frustrating at watching debates. The science guys are way too polite. They think that they win the debate by explaining the science, while they let Kent Hovind run away with the dirty tricks, dodging answers and his ignorance. The very least is to name and expose the tricks, to highlight his errors etc.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Per polling data, it's mostly older cohorts (60+) that believe in creationism. And not surprisingly said poster's age puts them in that cohort.

Well, younger people are smarter than older people. I'm surrounded by young graduate students that have it all figured out (now if I can only get them to stop putting garbage in with the recyclables, and wipe their feet when they enter the building).
 
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