What would happen if we find Noah's ark?

[AirPo]

may I ask how you think you know what it is? I get awfully sick and tired of being told my relationship with God IS or ISN'T by people who don't acknowledge his existance in the first place.

Why do you keep trying to replace spiritual experiences with your relationship with God. Or are you saying your relationship with god is nothing more than a series of spiritual experiences?

 

[BananaSlug]

It’s very real. The difference being, someone who takes peyote recreationally doesn’t believe he experienced the supernatural once the effect wears off. A Native American whose intent is to experience the spiritual, believes peyote is his window to that realm. Likewise, those who intend to experience God through Christian ritual walk away believing that this is indeed what happened.

I recommend any of the many books by Joseph Campbell. The Power of Myth is readable (unlike some of his more scholastic works), and goes in depth on the history, application and effects of myth and ritual on world civilization and cultures. Campbell is a Catholic, so his views are not anti-God.

Very true.

But back to the OP. I doubt the ark will be found. If a large boat was found and dated to around 4000 years ago, I'm sure the YEC's will be singing. If a large boat was found and dated to around 500 years ago, I'm sure the YEC's will be complaining about the EAC.

 

[Uphill Battle]

Why do you keep trying to replace spiritual experiences with your relationship with God. Or are you saying your relationship with god is nothing more than a series of spiritual experiences?

do you think that spiritual matters are an "event"? You can't seperate the mundane from the spiritual. Well, you can, but it doesn't make it go away.

I still ask why you think you have a definitive reason to know what is going on when it comes to anything spiritual.

 

[Uphill Battle]

Very true.

But back to the OP. I doubt the ark will be found. If a large boat was found and dated to around 4000 years ago, I'm sure the YEC's will be singing. If a large boat was found and dated to around 500 years ago, I'm sure the YEC's will be complaining about the EAC.

dating or not, you'd have to wonder... What is a boat the size described in the bible, doing on a mountain?

 

[nvxplorer]

may I ask how you think you know what it is? I get awfully sick and tired of being told my relationship with God IS or ISN'T by people who don't acknowledge his existance in the first place.

No one is trying to dissuade you from your faith, UB. I, and I assume the others, are simply stating that your personal experience is insufficient as a demonstration for the existence of the supernatural, especially the existence of your particular interpretation of the supernatural.

What many of us are sick and tired of is those who wish to use their personal religious experience as a means to control the economic, political and cultural aspects of society.

 

[EvoDan]

What many of us are sick and tired of is those who wish to use their personal religious experience as a means to control the economic, political and cultural aspects of society.

Amen, brother!

 

[BananaSlug]

dating or not, you'd have to wonder... What is a boat the size described in the bible, doing on a mountain?

That's assuming the boat was found on a mountain. What if it was found somewhere else? Let's say in the middle of the desert? That wouldn't coincide with the Bible too well...
I really don't think the ark is going to be found for the simple reason that it doesn't exist.

 

[Uphill Battle]

No one is trying to dissuade you from your faith, UB. I, and I assume the others, are simply stating that your personal experience is insufficient as a demonstration for the existence of the supernatural, especially the existence of your particular interpretation of the supernatural.

What many of us are sick and tired of is those who wish to use their personal religious experience as a means to control the economic, political and cultural aspects of society.

I am aware that you would never take personal experience as evidence of anything. I just hate the attitude that comes across "It ain't real" is the basic thrust of the message. You can believe it all you want, but you can't assert it to be true. I offer only what I believe to be true in relation to the Holy Spirit, God, etc...

but on the other side of the coin, should we not as well be sick and tired of people who use their agnosticism as a right to push their agendas on the poplulation? take for instance, removing prayer from schools. fine, you shouldn't force anyone to pray. I agree. someone praying like that isn't doing anything beyond parroting words anyways. But forbidding people from doing it is another matter entirely.

 

[Uphill Battle]

That's assuming the boat was found on a mountain. What if it was found somewhere else? Let's say in the middle of the desert? That wouldn't coincide with the Bible too well...
I really don't think the ark is going to be found for the simple reason that it doesn't exist.

1) no, it wouldn't. I agree.
2) please preface such a statement with I don't believe.... Seeing as you can't assert that proven.

 

[AirPo]

do you think that spiritual matters are an "event"? You can't seperate the mundane from the spiritual. Well, you can, but it doesn't make it go away.

I still ask why you think you have a definitive reason to know what is going on when it comes to anything spiritual.

You don't seem to be paying attention. The discussion has to do with a single, specific, experience. Why are you trying to equate that with you entire belief system. Or are you saying that your belief system is based soley on a series specific experiences?

 

[BananaSlug]

how about, "its existence has not been proven so far."

 

[AirPo]

I am aware that you would never take personal experience as evidence of anything. I just hate the attitude that comes across "It ain't real" is the basic thrust of the message. You can believe it all you want, but you can't assert it to be true. I offer only what I believe to be true in relation to the Holy Spirit, God, etc...

but on the other side of the coin, should we not as well be sick and tired of people who use their agnosticism as a right to push their agendas on the poplulation? take for instance, removing prayer from schools. fine, you shouldn't force anyone to pray. I agree. someone praying like that isn't doing anything beyond parroting words anyways. But forbidding people from doing it is another matter entirely.

"Prayer" was not removed from school, "forced prayer" was. Granted, some schools do not apply that correctly.

 

[Uphill Battle]

You don't seem to be paying attention. The discussion has to do with a single, specific, experience. Why are you trying to equate that with you entire belief system. Or are you saying that your belief system is based soley on a series specific experiences?

I'm paying perfect attention. I'm just refusing to play the "get him to say something I can jump on" game.

 

[Uphill Battle]

how about, "its existence has not been proven so far."

fair enough.

 

[nvxplorer]

I am aware that you would never take personal experience as evidence of anything. I just hate the attitude that comes across "It ain't real" is the basic thrust of the message. You can believe it all you want, but you can't assert it to be true. I offer only what I believe to be true in relation to the Holy Spirit, God, etc...

I know you have been following the thread, so this has already been discussed. Again, your experience is very real. You can believe that it proves the existence of the Holy Spirit if you wish. I have no reason to believe that your experiences are anything other than altered states of conciousness, which over time and combined with the effects of culture and religious instruction (plus your willingness to believe), have coalesced into a worldview which to you is cosmic truth. That’s fine with me. Whatever floats your boat.

but on the other side of the coin, should we not as well be sick and tired of people who use their agnosticism as a right to push their agendas on the poplulation? take for instance, removing prayer from schools. fine, you shouldn't force anyone to pray. I agree. someone praying like that isn't doing anything beyond parroting words anyways. But forbidding people from doing it is another matter entirely.

I can’t speak for Canada, but children are not prohibited from praying in school in the US. The separation of church and state is not a product of atheism, and it serves to protect all religions. If you doubt the danger of a non-secular government, ask a Jewish friend to relocate to Tehran or Riyadh.

 

[Electric Sceptic]

take for instance, removing prayer from schools. fine, you shouldn't force anyone to pray. I agree. someone praying like that isn't doing anything beyond parroting words anyways. But forbidding people from doing it is another matter entirely.

This is just dishonest. Nobody has been forbidden from praying, as you well know.

 

[Uphill Battle]

This is just dishonest. Nobody has been forbidden from praying, as you well know.

really... you should visit Canada some time. Like it was said before, it's in the enforcement. I have had friends children saying Grace over their lunches with their also believeing friends, and told "you can't do that here."

I've had similar experiences with highschool/college age kids trying to start a bible study for anyone interested... not forced... and told "you can't do that here."

I know the letter of the law doesn't forbid any of the above, but my, how the spirit of the law is shown.

 

[AirPo]

I'm paying perfect attention. I'm just refusing to play the "get him to say something I can jump on" game.

Then can you please answer the question.

 

[nvxplorer]

really... you should visit Canada some time. Like it was said before, it's in the enforcement. I have had friends children saying Grace over their lunches with their also believeing friends, and told "you can't do that here."

I've had similar experiences with highschool/college age kids trying to start a bible study for anyone interested... not forced... and told "you can't do that here."

I know the letter of the law doesn't forbid any of the above, but my, how the spirit of the law is shown.

If the law allows such things, the Christians should have proceeded with their plans. The court would have backed the Christians if it came to that, and I suspect any school would back down if threatened with legal action.

 

[EvoDan]

... and I suspect any school would back down if threatened with legal action.

Well, except Dover...